What next for the military?

[GARCIA]

Glad I retired out before this ever occurred.

Tom

http://www.military.com/military-report/navy-to-offer-same-sex-partner-benefits?ESRC=miltrep.nl

[missionary5155]

Greetings
And I am glad for you too. All of this is just a reflection of what young people have been taught is OK and acceptable from pre-school on up. Thank God I was born longer ago where teachers could still encourage young minds to read the Bible and ask God for His Truth to be in our lives.
Well they wanted the Bible out of schools and God to go away. Muck always flows where clean water does not exist.
Mike in Peru

[x101airborne]

Well, I just dont see the big deal. I understand why some dont like same sex partnerships and I respect their opinion. I also respect someone's right to find happiness. I dont go that way and I dont see the temptation to engage in that behavior, but I dont feel uncomfortable around those that do. And, yes, I have been around quite a few. My point is..... It doesn't hurt anyone except those that engage in it, and those that do are happy, so I just dont see the problem. What if someone was denying you benefits for an interracial marriage? Same difference. It is not a problem and it doesn't bother me, so I just let them be happy and I live my own life. I have enough problems of my own to worry about. I dont have time to judge others.

[Love Life]

Q: What is next for the military?
A: We will be issued clown shoes to replace combat boots.

[41 mag fan]

Q: What is next for the military?
A: We will be issued clown shoes to replace combat boots.

And your gun will be that flower on their chest that shoots water out of it

[bruce drake]

When I was in the Marines, we used to have a joke about what happened when you put 100 sailors on a submarine....You got 50 couples....Unfortunately it seems to be coming true.

100 days to retirement and counting...

[Recluse]

So far this year, I've talked two young folks out of joining the Army and one young man from joining the Air Force.

The complete and total mismanagement of the military via the peacock generals of the Pentagon, compounded by the "we ourselves never served" civilian officials and the obvious intent by both to destroy the military and rebuild it into a social-engineering jobs program where homosexual couples can link up to find a mate makes it easy for me to do so with a completely clear conscience.

I'll also never support our involvement in any extended war overseas, instead supporting a tactical nuclear strike of any nation or organization or individual (are you reading this, George Soros, you sorry SOB) who works to harm us as individual states or as a nation.

:coffee:

[GARCIA]

They have been in the military for years but were a very hidden group and ran in their own circles.
Never really had a problem with them and worked with them on a daily basis. All I ever asked of them was to do their job which they did.

Scroll back to 1993 when the CSM of the Army (time of the dont ask,dont tell)was fielding questions about it at Aberdeen Proving Grounds. I asked a simple question that if same sex marriages were recognised by the military would they be allowed to live in government housing. The answer was yes. I had my time in and could only do 22 years as an E-7. Called the wife and explained the winds of change in the military. Had my retirement papers in within the week. She agreed that it would be hard to tell our young sons why two guys/gals were holding hands and kissing before one left for work. My family prompted my retirement and our beliefs. Really got nothing against the gays but sure did not want my family subjected to it.

Still love my military as I new it but the political correctness and the way it is going is not good.

Tom
(RET E-7)

[richhodg66]

Hang in there Bruce.

Glad I retired for a lot of reasons. I will say this, though; the military is just a reflection of our society, so don't blame the DOD for it.

Unfortunately, what it's gonna take is for us to get our butts handed to us in the next conflict because we were too busy being politically correct to actually do the business of warfighting before it changes, if it changes then.

[41 mag fan]

Hang in there Bruce.

Glad I retired for a lot of reasons. I will say this, though; the military is just a reflection of our society, so don't blame the DOD for it.

Unfortunately, what it's gonna take is for us to get our butts handed to us in the next conflict because we were too busy being politically correct to actually do the business of warfighting before it changes, if it changes then.

Exactly....lets just hope the next conflict doesn't dessimate our military.
Like Mogadishu when it happened, the U.S. thought the seals were the best of the best, and unkillable. Took a lot of DOD rethinking and retraining to get the seals to where they are today now....

[P.K.]

Exactly....lets just hope the next conflict doesn't dessimate our military.
Like Mogadishu when it happened, the U.S. thought the seals were the best of the best, and unkillable. Took a lot of DOD rethinking and retraining to get the seals to where they are today now....

That guy is doing a good job of it already. Lower standards, long deployments and a "push button" policy that makes "Klintoon" look hands off in comparison. The armed services are being rained in to pre-1941 levels and deployment areas so as not to appear as being bullies. Just today it was announced a sale of UAV's to the UAE for crying out loud. Abrams and F-16's to Egypt to counter Israel and now cutting edge( by their standards) in remote tech.

Top that with the smoke and mirrors over Bengazi and you start to get a better picture of this admis rush to level the playing field. The Utopian Libs think that a "nuke in every arsenal" would rightly pi$$ off too many folks but a level technelogical playing field will even the odds and everyone will come to the table and behave as good little boys and girls. Time will tell but it's just what this admin wants is a weak and demoralized military, so that civilian enforcement can play the role of martial enforcement w/o violation of the Posse Comitatus Act ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act)). Millions of rounds for traing LEO's? Nope...Equiping is more like it. In 2009, the most recent data I could get, why is that? There was an estemated 452,037 sworn LEO's in the US.(http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_71.html This number was generated from data recived from 11,218 cities and municipalities reporting. With just a Billion rounds of ammo that's a load out of 2,212.208 rounds per sworn officer. That was just from one news article, what about the SSA buying a couple of million rounds and only 250 something enforcement officers "covering medicare fraud" IIRC?

{{{{Putting the foil hat up and grabbing the Tylenol....}}}}

[drklynoon]

As a veteran of four tours in Iraq and ten years of military service I just don't care. I didn't care when I was in and I don't care now. This country has a strong belief that we are free to do whatever pleases us until that freedom impinges on another's freedom. Some dude marrying another dude is none of my business nor does it affect me in the least bit. Only by segregating people into outcasts do I become affected. These "outcasts" are people that are not afforded the same rights as others and until recently did not receive protection from the law. Now many overcompensate for past indiscretions causing people to be more segregated. If people only followed what they preached early in this countries development we would not be faced with many of the social problems that we are today. As a veteran I swore to upold the constitution and am amazed at those who pick and choose who it applies to.

[Larry Gibson]

Trouble is drklnoon, while the lesbians and gays are all hooked up you, the straight guy or gal, regardless of race, are prohibited from going down town for a "steam and creame". Think not? Better re-read GO #1 as the military leadership still is walking the "morale high ground". As a 1SG I spent an inordnate amount of my time dealing with "sex problems" by those that could get it on base and those that couldn't; i.e. male on male, female on female and female on male. While the officers went to pray and have meetings on the topic I, and the other senior NCOs, had to "deal" with the problem. Many times I thought if we could spend half the time dealing with the enemy that we did with such problems the war would truely have been won and would have been over a lot sooner.

Larry Gibson

[Ickisrulz]

those that do are happy

Don't be so sure about that.

[Love Life]

To top it all off we can give them all Distinguished Warfare Medals...

[P.K.]

To top it all off we can give them all Distinguished Warfare Medals...

Don't get me started on that piece of you know what. The wizards up there put it higher on the tree than the BS and PH for peats sake. Reminds me of the bleeding hearts wanting a "Cold War" medal, I told em all, put in a 4187 for Antartica, you'll get your tin.

[Love Life]

I couldn't help myself P.K.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I did not serve in the Military. I did my combat on the street of NYC as a Police Officer, Sergeant and Lieutenant of Police as a member of the the NYC Police Department.

We went through this gay **** back in the 70's. Eventually there was a GOAL organization withing the NYCPD. That stood for Gay Officer's Action League. At the time it was revolutionary. There was not a group of people more homophobic than a typical NYC Cop. It really took a big pair to come out of the closet in those days. By 1980 I had a openly Gay Captain in the area command. He was given the same respect as any other Captain and even though it was strange to see him with another man at a social function hosted by the NYCPD we put up with it as it was fair.

You might not like the person nor the lifestyle they have but you will respect their rank and their accomplishments.

[Recluse]

We were constantly reminded, back in the prehistoric politically incorrect days, that we--the military--were NOT a democracy and that our JOB was to PROTECT a democracy. We did not have constitutional rights per se back then and instead were subject to the articles in the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

We also had regs against PDA--Public Display of Affection. No hand holding, no hugging, no kissing, etc etc anywhere on post, port or a base while in uniform.

"Maintain good order and discipline." The old school vets will remember that.

I'm fairly sure we had gays serving back then, but they stayed in the closet and kept their lifestyle to themselves or kept it hidden very well. It wasn't just because they would've been general or dishonorably discharged "in order to maintain good order and discipline," although that must've weighed heavily on their minds.

It was something else. It was that they joined to be part of something bigger than themselves, to sacrifice in order for a great good, and in doing so, they--like the rest of us--put themselves and what was good for them in second or third place and put the good of the service and their individual units first.

Same thing goes with women in combat/special operations roles. They are NOT doing it to put the Army or Air Force or Navy and the mission first--they are doing it to "make a statement" or to "be a trailblazer."

It's sad that the military leadership has not only allowed it, but is now seeming to encourage it.

:coffee:

[FISH4BUGS]

They have as much right to be as miserable as the rest of us.

[P.K.]

I couldn't help myself P.K.


I figgered as much, I drug my knuckles back here to leave my typical cromagnon apology of "Ug! My Bad..." ;-)

[TheGrimReaper]

Glad I am out too.

[xs11jack]

What I want to know is why the fairy godmother generals in the pentagon can get the money to give same sex partner benefits and cannot find the money to give a frontline soldier a warm breakfast! What a bunch of hipocrites.
Jack

[fatelk]

You old-timers need to get with the program. The "new morality" is in, and the "old morality" is out. Haven't you had the brainwa.. I mean sensitivity training yet? Post #3 is a prime example of what the younger generation believes- thoroughly and completely brainwashed on this matter. The culture is gone, man. The hippies won.

You are entitled to your old-fashioned, hateful, judgmental opinion, so long as you keep it to yourself. :(

[Marvin S]

So does this mean we will have four sets of bathrooms and dorms now?

[x101airborne]

You old-timers need to get with the program. The "new morality" is in, and the "old morality" is out. Haven't you had the brainwa.. I mean sensitivity training yet? Post #3 is a prime example of what the younger generation believes- thoroughly and completely brainwashed on this matter. The culture is gone, man. The hippies won.

You are entitled to your old-fashioned, hateful, judgmental opinion, so long as you keep it to yourself. :(

Thank you for making my point.
If you would like to discuss this further, please PM me as I don't feel any further response would be appropriate for public posting.

And as much as the 60's are over, so are the 1950's Mississippi and the 1940's Germany.

[Larry Gibson]

So by that reasoning I should be able to have the 5 wives who are rich (or have good paying jobs) so I can afford all the guns, ammo and hunting trips I want? Point being I can not have 5 wives.......so do we equate that "discrimination" with Mississippi in the 50's or with the Nazi's in the 40's? If females and/or gays subtract from the combat readiness of combat soldiers and units (infantry for instance, not helicopter pilots who fly home to 3 hots and a cot......) and that infringes on the straights right to live because they don't hold up their end then that's ok..........all wars and combat are not like the current or the last one.......so when we face a really determined enemy because our real combat effectiveness is diminished because of political correctness and we really begin to lose who do we ask to save us? Now before you come back remember that I spent 42 years (22 1/2 active duty) in the Army mostly in combat units (2 hot wars, quite a few hot spots in the cold one). The last few years were in a support unit (deplyed to Iraq for 14 months) so I know what happens to combat readiness when the "mix" is in......seen it 1st hand from the inception.........we are a kinder and gentler military for sure with too many politicians and wanna be's making decisions on what they think combat should be instead of what it is......probably why we haven't really won a war in 60+ years..........Oh, forgive me but the "coach" says we are ahead in the current football game so we are leaving in the middle of the 3rd quarter.......like the other team is going to quit playing..........Ah, but we are fully integrated by race, sex and now sexual orientation so that gives us the high morale road...........to victory......really?

Larry Gibson

[fatelk]

I'm not sure how I made any kind of point for you, but I obviously struck a nerve. No, I have no intention to take it outside, I mean to PM. I do take great offense to being called a Nazi and a bigot though, however indirectly. That's a low blow, and completely ignorant of the issue at hand.

My statement regarding "keep it to yourself" was not directed at you, it was sarcastically directed back at those among us with more traditional views. Nowadays if you disagree with the gay agenda, you are bad and must be dealt with. Merely raising an objection is dangerous anymore. In fact your reaction rather proved my point.

For the record, I have no problem being around gay people, and treating them respectfully as any other person, but I refuse to be bullied into changing my principles or beliefs for the sake of political correctness. I also believe that at least 3/4 of folks under about 40 have been so brainwashed for "the cause" that they don't even have a clue how brainwashed they are.

[jmort]

Why do these sodomites and sodomite sympathizers have to inflict sick behavior on others? Keep it in the closet. Have you no shame? As noted our children are indoctrinated to believe wrong is right and right is wrong. Too bad we have members who were either brain-washed or never figured out right and wrong.

[Love Life]

Just an observation here, but when the DADT was repealed there was no massive "coming out" in the military. Just something I found funny.

[KCSO]

What's the big deal about same sex, I was married over 40 years ago and I've had the same sex every since.

[white eagle]

We were constantly reminded, back in the prehistoric politically incorrect days, that we--the military--were NOT a democracy and that our JOB was to PROTECT a democracy. We did not have constitutional rights per se back then and instead were subject to the articles in the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

We also had regs against PDA--Public Display of Affection. No hand holding, no hugging, no kissing, etc etc anywhere on post, port or a base while in uniform.

"Maintain good order and discipline." The old school vets will remember that.

I'm fairly sure we had gays serving back then, but they stayed in the closet and kept their lifestyle to themselves or kept it hidden very well. It wasn't just because they would've been general or dishonorably discharged "in order to maintain good order and discipline," although that must've weighed heavily on their minds.

It was something else. It was that they joined to be part of something bigger than themselves, to sacrifice in order for a great good, and in doing so, they--like the rest of us--put themselves and what was good for them in second or third place and put the good of the service and their individual units first.

Same thing goes with women in combat/special operations roles. They are NOT doing it to put the Army or Air Force or Navy and the mission first--they are doing it to "make a statement" or to "be a trailblazer."

It's sad that the military leadership has not only allowed it, but is now seeming to encourage it.

:coffee:
rite on

[2HighSpeed]

Maybe a little of topic but my husband was just told last week that he has been recommended to NOT go to the board for his E6. They chose someone that has less time in service to go instead. Makes me mad. He's a Purple Heart recipient, has been blown up quite literally, put on a desk job and they use that as the excuse to not allow him to further his career. He's a great leader, they just stuck a infantryman in a desk job but somehow it's his fault.

[P.K.]

Maybe a little of topic but my husband was just told last week that he has been recommended to NOT go to the board for his E6. They chose someone that has less time in service to go instead. Makes me mad. He's a Purple Heart recipient, has been blown up quite literally, put on a desk job and they use that as the excuse to not allow him to further his career. He's a great leader, they just stuck a infantryman in a desk job but somehow it's his fault.

I'm trully sorry to hear that, with all the attention that Big Army tries to focus on "taking care of it's own" it's still a game at alot of levels. If he hasn't talked with his branch yet he may want to. It also sounds a bit discriminatory with a touch of nepotysim thrown into the pot. I don't know what the climate is like on Hood but he has options.

[contender1]

This issue is just one of many that is taking our beloved America down the path to ruin.
Now, I'm not against gays, but I do get tired of them forcing us to discuss THEIR sexual preferences in public, all while restricting my rights to discuss prayer in schools, shooting programs in schools etc.
It's funny that Constitutional issues are restricted, yet they force us to listen to their sexual preferences in a public forum. Try explaining it to children.
ANY sexual preference should be PRIVATE as long as it's not illegal. (Child molesters etc.) And even then, any public discussion should be about the criminal & what he will get if convicted. NOT about what they enjoyed.
Yes, I have gay friends, but we do not discuss any of it. I prefer it that way, that's why we are friends.

[coblake]

If this goes through, every dorm rat in the Air Force is going to marry his buddy and move off Base. I can't really blame them. The financial benefits of Mil-to-Mil marriages are almost ludicrous. This will be abused badly.

[lcclower]

... PRIVATE .... That's the key word.
I don't give a hoot who marries who or what but keep the sex and arguments and overt PDA's out of my view.
It's not being politically correct, it's just being polite about it.

[1Shirt]

The issue of "good order and discipline" that old soldiers like myself inforced is shot in the A$$ by political correctness, and so called diversification training.
1Shirt!

[Lance Boyle]

When I was in the Marines, we used to have a joke about what happened when you put 100 sailors on a submarine....You got 50 couples....Unfortunately it seems to be coming true.

100 days to retirement and counting...

Congrats Bruce!

I got out when we were dumb enough to re-elect Clinton. I didn't like the social engineering trend and it's only gotten worse, much worse in fact.

I got another 8 years before I can leave the great tax taking state of NY.

[bruce drake]

Thanks Lance...94 :)
I just left Watertown last June after being up there for 7 years with the 10th. We could have melted some lead together if you had joined the forum sooner ;)

Bruce

[Lance Boyle]

If this goes through, every dorm rat in the Air Force is going to marry his buddy and move off Base. I can't really blame them. The financial benefits of Mil-to-Mil marriages are almost ludicrous. This will be abused badly.

Yea, there is already a large problem with sham marriages for the money and to escape the barracks. I dated a female Sgt. for a while and we parted ways but still talked. About a year after parting ways she and a soldier of hers, a blatant (male) homosexual and drug user, got married to live off post. He popped positive on operation golden stream (twice) and got ejected. Needless to say I was disappointed at the gross fraud being committed and told her so much. Glad I ejected early there. Last I heard she's out and got a girlfriend of her own, not that there is anything wrong with that.

[Lance Boyle]

Yep, that would have been good for me to get through some newbie moments! I go over to Van Tassel's shop and pick Dennis' brain from time to time. In fact this week I shot some 200 grain RCBS Sil's that Dennis gave me in my K31 to see if it liked it. Not real conclusive, got a nice load for 1" groups at 50 and moved back to 100 and got a 2" wide by 5.5" vertical group. Not sure if it was my crappy eyes or the fact that i completely forgot to orient my powder by tipping the rifle up before firing. I'd be ecstatic with a round 2" group at 100y.

I'm actually thinking I'm coming along ok though. I do know I need to be more disciplined with my alloy composition and handling. So far I got two batches of alloy and I'll use a half and half mix of them when I cast and if rifle bullet making I'll add some tin from a roll or Sb solder.

[Lance Boyle]

thanks lance...94 :)
i just left watertown last june after being up there for 7 years with the 10th. We could have melted some lead together if you had joined the forum sooner ;)

bruce


and if i got into pb casting earlier i could have beat the pb ww ban by a couple years!