Maximum you can size a cast boolit?

[no34570]

Hi
I was wondering,what is the maximum you size a cast bullet down to?
For arguments sake,say a .451-.452 boolit to be sized down to a .430-.433
What is the recommended sizing down max?is there one?
Would you suggest doing it in stages,like going from .451 to .446 then to .433.

This is just a question that a friend of mine is asking me and to tell the truth I'm not sure,so hey I figured some of you blokes have to have had asked the same question,did anyone get the answers they were looking for?[smilie=1:
Thanks guy's
:drinks:
no34570:castmine:

[no34570]

From everything I have read that max is right around .003 reduction. But also remember that as you reduce the size of the round you will also alter the balance of the bullet as well you will loose needed lubrication grooves. In all honesty I would say get the correct mold for what your friend is trying to do.

Jestergrin
I thought as much and did tell him that,but he is a bit of a tightwad:roll: reckons he would put his own grease grooves into the boolit:( What a ********!:)
Thanks for that
:drinks:
no34570

[highwallbo]

I cast Paul Jones Creedmoor 540 gr. that cast a .464 dia. bullet for my Shilo #1 45-70 . I shoot these as cast in the 45-70.
I take the exact same bullet and put it twice through a Lee .448 size die and shoot these out of my Gibbs .45 cal ML. Both ways these bullets shoot extermely well, the .448's shoot a little better than the as cast bullets.I think it's because they are sized and have a larger powder charge in the ML.:Fire:

[no34570]

I cast Paul Jones Creedmoor 540 gr. that cast a .464 dia. bullet for my Shilo #1 45-70 . I shoot these as cast in the 45-70.
I take the exact same bullet and put it twice through a Lee .448 size die and shoot these out of my Gibbs .45 cal ML. Both ways these bullets shoot extermely well, the .448's shoot a little better than the as cast bullets.I think it's because they are sized and have a larger powder charge in the ML.:Fire:

Highwallbo
Hi and thanks for the reply
Very interesting,I will pass on that info to me mate,maybe he has thought this through better than me????,nah!:-D
:drinks:
no34570:castmine:

[no34570]

I stand corrected lol. I guess I am the Odd Duck as I feel it is best to get a mold that is as close as you can for the need at hand.

Jestergrin_1
Looks like we both have learned something new,maybe you can teach an old dog new tricks,woof![smilie=1:
no34570:castmine:

[no34570]

I guess for some things the old saying works. If it does not fit get a bigger hammer lol. :)

Ohh,how so true mate,how so true:)
:castmine:

[454PB]

I've never tried sizing more than .005", but you will only discover if it works by trying. Logic says the more sizing the more distortion, but without testing it you never know. I'd suggest you do any sizing of more than .005" in several steps to avoid sticking the boolit in the die.

[BruceB]

Gents;

If radical bullet-sizing is contemplated, lubricate the bullet BEFORE the major sizing alteration takes place. The lubricant is non-compressible, and will keep the lube grooves pretty much intact. If this pre-lubing is not done, the grooves can be erased from the bullet by the swaging action of the sizing die.

Before I got a proper mould for my .404 Jeffery, I was sizing the Lee 44-310 bullet from its as-cast .431" down to .424", and the design worked quite well when down-sized. It looked goofy as hell, but it worked.

Certainly, getting a proper mould for the intended diameter is best, but there are times when a bit of creative thought can get a rifle shooting when otherwise it would remain un-used.

[no34570]

I've never tried sizing more than .005", but you will only discover if it works by trying. Logic says the more sizing the more distortion, but without testing it you never know. I'd suggest you do any sizing of more than .005" in several steps to avoid sticking the boolit in the die.

454PB
Thanks for the reply
I told my mate about what the go is and he still wants to try it:roll: ,so who am I to stop him.
I think your right in saying to step it down in several steps to avoid getting stuck or breaking something.
I know he's not trying it out on my lubesizer[smilie=1:
no34570

[no34570]

Gents;

If radical bullet-sizing is contemplated, lubricate the bullet BEFORE the major sizing alteration takes place. The lubricant is non-compressible, and will keep the lube grooves pretty much intact. If this pre-lubing is not done, the grooves can be erased from the bullet by the swaging action of the sizing die.

Before I got a proper mould for my .404 Jeffery, I was sizing the Lee 44-310 bullet from its as-cast .431" down to .424", and the design worked quite well when down-sized. It looked goofy as hell, but it worked.

Certainly, getting a proper mould for the intended diameter is best, but there are times when a bit of creative thought can get a rifle shooting when otherwise it would remain un-used.

BruceB
I have let my mate see your post and he just looked at me like to say"See it was not stupid after all"I still reckon he'd be better off with the proper mould.
He wants a design thats for a .446 or was it the .454 to go down to .432-.433 diameter for his .44 Mag Lever action rifle and his Micro grooved .444 Marlin,it is a 360gr boolit I think,anyway each to his own[smilie=1:
Cheers
:drinks:
no34570:castmine:

[Newtire]

I found the same thing that BruceB is saying. If you pre-lube the boolit before sizing, it will work. The nose will be too big but in a .44 mag it won't matter much anyway. I sized a .329" Lee down to .314" like that just to see and it worked except for the nose was the same size as the body. Looks pretty impressive.

[NVcurmudgeon]

Bob Milek, the late gunwriter, once sized .44 boolits to .410, and .41 boolits to .357 and got good accuracy. The only detail I remember was that he pre-lubed before sizing to avoid closing the grease grooves. I regularly size .314" castings to .309" with no adverse effects I can see on a target, despite the conventional wisdom. I have always believed that the old casters' tale about ANY sizing being too much arose in the days when pre-1968 Lyman sizing dies often sheared one side off of the boolit. Pre-1968 or so Lyman dies had an abrupt step from a wider entry diameter to sizing diameter, instead of today's tapered entry. I tried casting boolits in the early sixties with a sensational lack of success. After Lyman "went straight" and NRA Alox was invented about the same time, success was no longer so elusive.

[axman]

I've taken .462'' dia bullets both hard cast and soft and went to .451'' in a lee sizing die using imperial sizing wax and they come out round by my mic. and shoot well.

[Maven]

no 34570 & Jester Grin 1, Buckshot used a Lee Precision push-through sizing die to concentrically size a custom run CB (8mm, 235gr.) with all of its lube grooves filled (with lube) from .326" to .314". Being a skeptical sort, I did almost the same thing using a .326" LBT spire-point CB with all its grooves filled. although I wouldn't recommend doing this (sizing from .326" to .314"), it performed very nicely in my Argentine Mauser. A proper mold is, indeed the better way, but if you want to experiment, try radical resizing, but make sure you (1) size concentrically; (2) fill all the grooves with lube so they don't collapse; and (3) have a strong press and bench because of the force involved. Hope this helps!

[dakotashooter2]

I've been sizing down .41 (.411) mag bullets to .401 for my 40 S&W and getting better accuracy than two bullets designed for the .40. I think it depends on if you get them centered properly while resizing and minimize distortion. I think one of the advantages in my situation is that the bearing surface of the driving bands is increased helping to stabilize the bullet.



:castmine:

[fecmech]

I have resized .45 cal 200 and 185 swc's to .433 for my large throated Ruger Super Blackhawk. They were originally sized and lubed to .451 and then run through the .433 size die for the Ruger. Accuracy was(benched) groups of less than 3" at 50 yds,which while not stellar is pretty decent IMO. I did not like the extra step and tried "Beagling" my 6 cav Lee 214 swc and got essentially the same results with less hassle. Anytime my gun and load can stay inside the 10 ring on a 50 yd Bullseye target it sure is not handicapping me!

[no34570]

I can see everyones point of view and my mate still reckons he is going to try it and by some of the posts on this tread,it seems it just might work out ok[smilie=1:

As Dakotashooter2 said "I think one of the advantages in my situation is that the bearing surface of the driving bands is increased helping to stabilize the bullet."
It seems that helps a lot in accuracy

But like a lot of you I still think he should get the proper mold made for his gun:roll:
I even might try it my self and see how it goes and show me mate the results,even if they are bad or good results.
Thank you to everyone for replying
:drinks:
no34570 & my mate John:-D
:castmine:

[Sundogg1911]

just remember that the more sizing you have to do the more "Work softening" you will get. For that reason alone I try to keep my moulds close to size when possible