Dirty filthy gun...why..is it the lube?

[hondasjp]

Hello,

I just started casting my own handgun bullets. I ve been reloading all my life and I am just now getting into casting, I love it. I casted a couple hundred 452 dia bullets and lubed them with the Lee Anox lube in a plastic bowl. I let them sit on wax paper over night as the instuctions said to. I then sized them down to 451 with my lee sizing kit. Then I loaded them up for my 45acp. I used IMR 7625 and Bluedot. (I usally use wen 231 I was out) I shot about a hundred rounds out of my new Ruger SR 1911. They shoot great. When I tore my gun down too clean it ( i clean my guns everytime i shoot) it was filthy. I have never seen a gun so dirty. Unburnt powder mostley. I was wondering if I missed a step , too much lube, maybe the wrong powder. Any suggestions would be greatly apprecitiated. Thanks

[454PB]

You got some operations in the wrong order. If you're going to use the Lee sizer, you need to recoat the boolits after they are sized. When I use that method, I use a very light dab of my normal case resizing lube (which is boot waterproofing), run them through the sizer, then coat with the liquid Alox.

I've never heard of IMR 7625, but I am very familiar with Bluedot, which is one of my favorite powders.....but Bluedot is a bit too slow burning for clean burning in .45 ACP. Try a faster burning powder.

[Harter66]

I will second that 454.

Unless your shooting a heavier boolit than 230, Unique is slow enough .

[tomme boy]

7625 is about the dirtiest powder I have ever tried. Unique is the second. Get some 231 or CLAYS.

[nhrifle]

I've had good luck with Red Dot in my .45's. Not loading for that now, but have learned to like Clays in the 9mm and 40 S&W and I would think it would shine in the .45 as well. Very clean burning powder.

[Phoenix]

I load 45 ACP using Universal. has been very clean, cleaner than unique, The key to it I have found is a good crimp. I never have unburnt powder using universal and the lee FCD. NO leading. All around clean.

[gefiltephish]

You sure you really want to size to .451? I, and I suspect most, size to .452 for 1911's. Maybe your barrel is different.

[Larry Gibson]

Unburnt powder mostley.

That has absolutely nothing to do with the lube. As mentioned your powders are the problem. I prefer the so called "dirtier" Bullseye in my own cast bullet 45 ACP loads but there is no unburned powder residue. I've shot a lot of 231 and other so called "cleaner" powders and still clean my guns when done shooting and haven't noticed they were dirtier than with other powders. If there is anymore to clean when using Bullseye it doesn't bother me at all. Yes the lube used does also play a role but I've been shooting cast bullet loads so long I don't notice nor care as it's performance in shooting I want, not "easy to clean". If you want a cleaner gun to clean then sticking to jacketed bullets is the solution. Just my opinions is all.

Larry Gibson

[mdi]

You got some operations in the wrong order. If you're going to use the Lee sizer, you need to recoat the boolits after they are sized. When I use that method, I use a very light dab of my normal case resizing lube (which is boot waterproofing), run them through the sizer, then coat with the liquid Alox.

I've never heard of IMR 7625, but I am very familiar with Bluedot, which is one of my favorite powders.....but Bluedot is a bit too slow burning for clean burning in .45 ACP. Try a faster burning powder.
+1, I don't use anything slower than Unique in my 45 ACPs. I believe Lee's instructions say lube, size, lube again (alox works on the bearing surfaces of the bullet and doesn't need to fill the grooves). Another thing to think about is 90% of new alox users use too much lube, and get sticky, smoky, "dirty" shooting....

[sparky45]

GreenDot and RedDot in my .45ACP loads. Fun to shoot and not that dirty + it's one of the cheaper powders.

[Fathersalt]

I would switch your powders to a faster burning powder. I like bullseye.
The .451 sizing is probably hurting a bit also. Unless you have slugged your barrel and know it is "tight", I would recommend sizing to .452.

[MtGun44]

Clays is very clean but very rapid pressure rise and will not make normal .45 ACP full
power loads without overpressure. IMO, Clays is great for .38 Spl loads but not for .45 ACP.
Strongly recommend Titegroup or Bullseye for .45 ACP.

Bill

[tomf52]

Size to at least .452, change to Bullseye, prir to sizing try Hornady's One Shot case lube. DON'T apply too much Lee liquid Alox.

[KYCaster]

I have some very strong opinions about dirty, filthy guns and loads.

If you're one of those guys who shoot 20 or so rounds and then clean the gun before it goes back in the safe, then it doesn't make much difference what you shoot, you'll never have an issue with a dirty gun.

OTOH, if you shoot several hundred rounds in one range session or wait till malfunctions force you to clean the gun, then your choice of components can make a HUGE difference.

It really irks me when I finish a range session and find everything covered in soot.....gun, sand bags, bench, hands, glasses, face....

Or worse, have to cut the session short because the gun malfunctions due to fouling. It's a bit disconcerting when your 1911 starts feeling sluggish because powder fouling slows down the slide....or your AR jams because of carbon in the bolt carrier....or your revolver starts dragging on powder fouling in the cylinder gap or on the base pin.

Wouldn't it be great if you could avoid all those issues by changing one little detail in your reloads?

Well, you can!

When I started loading .223 for an AR I couldn't run two 30 round mags through it without a jam. I had to pull the bolt and scrub the carbon off after every stage of a match. BLc2, H335, WC846....carbon fouling was a fact of life.

Changed to Ramshot X-terminator and Ramshot Tac and now I can run 700+ rounds without an issue.

38 Special........when the family and friends get together we can go through 5 or 6 hundred rounds. Bullseye, Red Dot, 231, HP38, we'd use a can of Gun Scrubber to keep the guns working. Changed to Clays and no more problems.

Lee's Liquid Mule Snot is just about the worst lube there is for gunking up a gun. SPG, Emmert's, and other Vaseline and lard lubes are just as bad with smokeless powder loads. Generally, the softer the lube, the worse the fouling. That's not chiseled in stone, but it's pretty close. I started out with Lyman Orange Magic, Javalina and RCBS....finally discovered Thompson's Blue Angel, White Label Carnauba Red and Bullshop Speed Green and I'll never go back.

On several occasions, I've run 25,000 rounds through my 45ACP 1911's without a malfunction of any kind, without any cleaning at all, just to say I did it. For the last three years I've been shooting a Para Ordnance P16 in USPSA Limited Division, three or four matches per month, 110 to 130 rounds per match. Last time I cleaned it was April 2012.

Maybe it's time to clean my gun. :oops:

Jerry

[MtGun44]

I agree on 1911s running a long time without cleaning. When I was running IPSC for serious,
I'd clean my Gold Cup every 5000 rounds, whether it needed it our not. That was about
3 times per year. Otherwise, a few drops of Break Free and run a few matches.

H&G 68, 4.8 Gr BE, CCI primer. 100% reliable, not real dirty but definitely leaves some
residue.

Bill

[fredj338]

Yeah, powder & lube choice has a lot to do with how much gunk you get. BlueDot is way too slow for 45acp except for +P laods. I have no exp w/ the 7625 but many powders faster are filthy, like Bullseye, & prodce a lot of carbon that mixes w/ the lube as it burns.

[hondasjp]

WOW, This site is unreal. Thank you for all who took the time to post and commented. I ve been out of town working I just got back tonight. I learned something from EVERY POST!! Thanks.

I need to slug my 45 uh. The reason I sized down to 451 is because the jacketed bullets I buy for reloading are 451. I am not saying that thats right. I have tons to learn!! Where is a good place to get a "slug" tool. Will anything else work to check the dia without the tool. Sombody please tell me I didnt hurt my barrel shooting 451 when they should be 452, well I guess we dont know that 4-sure yet. Thats all very valuable info on the powders. I am using to much Lee anox lube I bet too. My boolits are brown!! I am guessing now thats to much.

Thanks agin!!!

[454PB]

My "slug tool" consists of a piece of 1/4" brass rod, a hammer, and a micrometer.

You can use one of your boolits for a slug if they are not too hard. Put it in a vice and squeeze it nose to base to enlarge it a bit. Starting with a clean barrel, put a drop of oil on the slug, place it on the muzzle, tap it until it's fully seated (without whacking the muzzle), and drive it through the barrel with the brass rod. Use the micrometer to measure the large diameter.

[hondasjp]

Well...I did just that. Just like you said. I took one of my cast boolits gave it a slight squeez in the vice a couple drops of oil and drove it thro the muzzle end of my barrel. It was fairly snug. I used a brass rod and hammer, drove her thro and measured the big base part of the bullet. It measured .451. Now, I am using the Lee .451 sizing die and I read on this site some where that lee sizing dies are pretty consitiantly .001 smaller than what they claim to be? Should I jump up to the Lee .452 to end up with .451? You think I may need a better sizer? RBCS , Lyman ? Heated with diff lube? Or do you think I am ok. I think it was the slow burning powder and possibly not enough crimp?

Anyway thanks for telling me how to slug a gun barrel. :)

[hondasjp]

Well...I did just that. Just like you said. I took one of my cast boolits gave it a slight squeez in the vice a couple drops of oil and drove it thro the muzzle end of my barrel. It was fairly snug. I used a brass rod and hammer, drove her thro and measured the big base part of the bullet. It measured .451. Now, I am using the Lee .451 sizing die and I read on this site some where that lee sizing dies are pretty consitiantly .001 smaller than what they claim to be? Should I jump up to the Lee .452 to end up with .451? You think I may need a better sizer? RBCS , Lyman ? Heated with diff lube? Or do you think I am ok. I think it was the slow burning powder and possibly not enough crimp?

Anyway thanks for telling me how to slug a gun barrel. :)

[runfiverun]

did you have any leading?
no,,, then don't worry about the sizing.
yes,,,,then you need to fix the diameter.

blue-dot burns clean in the 45 acp IF you change your springs and use 11 grains of it.
i don't know why you'd want 1100 fps from a 45 acp [shrug]
but there you go.

[hondasjp]

did you have any leading?
no,,, then don't worry about the sizing.
yes,,,,then you need to fix the diameter.

blue-dot burns clean in the 45 acp IF you change your springs and use 11 grains of it.
i don't know why you'd want 1100 fps from a 45 acp [shrug]
but there you go.

No I really had no noticeable leading. Thats good stuff about the bluedot which I have on the shelf

[40Super]

I use SR7625 for my most of my lead slugs(WSF and AA#5 the rest) because it beat out all my other favorites, including HP-38 which it replaced under my 200grscw(5.6gr of7625 to be exact ). I can't see where it is any dirtier than most of my other powders. I used HP-38 all last winter for pistol league, and this year I'm using SR7625 and my guns are not getting any dirtier or have a bunch of unburnt granules. It actually has almost no unburnt whereas the HP-38 did leave some. I would suggest it has to do with the lube, maybe it is "killing" some of the powder that it touches. Maybe try mag primers, I do in some loads anyways. WSF is definitely worse, but even that isn't that bad.

It meters great also, I will always recommend it.

[WHITETAIL]

See what you can learn from thies great people here.
Everyone here is so eger to share the knowledge.
"O" Welcome to the forum!:drinks:

[Case Stuffer]

Hardness of alloy, boolit design ( length of driving bands), dia. of boolit,groves, amount of crimp and type,bullet lube, powder burn rate and charge,primer used, cartridge, temperature and so many , other variables

OP stated new to casting ,sized to .452 and Lee Alox. and100 round.

First off .452 is most likely to small no matter that it is a Standard. Slug the barrel and size to 0.002 larger. Using Lee liquid lube if you can see it then it is likely to much. I yused it over 30 years ago on tens of thousands of 9MM, 38 Suoer,45APC, 38 Special which I loade for myself,wife,fellow club members and an indoor range I managed. I also used it on tens of thousands of bullets which I sold to other reloaders and to a few loxcal gn shops and indoor ranges. I found that LLL is as ggod as the pearson using it.

I also used several wax type sizers / lubers and around 12 different commerical lubes plus a few popular shooting times ,Shotguns News and other publications. I prefered the LLL and ammo I loaded with it over 30 years ago is still working just fine.

[40Super]

I forgot you stated about your slugged size,, If you got .451 (measured with a micrometer,right? not a caliper) rightfully you shout be sizng your boolits to .452-.453. If your not getting any leading with .451 right now using SR7625, it may not be needed. However if you switch powders it may start leading ,then you need to size bigger. Sometimes powders contribute to leading, sometimes not. You don't know till some shots are run through it.

[Kent Fowler]

You got some operations in the wrong order. If you're going to use the Lee sizer, you need to recoat the boolits after they are sized. When I use that method, I use a very light dab of my normal case resizing lube (which is boot waterproofing), run them through the sizer, then coat with the liquid Alox.

I've never heard of IMR 7625, but I am very familiar with Bluedot, which is one of my favorite powders.....but Bluedot is a bit too slow burning for clean burning in .45 ACP. Try a faster burning powder.

Sporting Rifle 7625 has been around a really long time. Used it in my 12 gauge loads to hunt ducks on the west end of Galveston Island in the early '70's. And, yes, it's dirty as the dickens.