Homeland Security

[double8]

I see in the newspaper that Homeland Security has ordered 1.6 BILLION rounds of ammo over the next four years. Wouldn't it be interesting if the provider of the ammo declined to sell it to them and reserve it for commercial sales?
Gives new light to a conspiracy theory........methinks WE are in for a bit of hell.

[WILCO]

Homeland Security stocks up 1.6 billion rounds of ammo

http://www.presstv.ir/usdetail/289263.html

[Larry Gibson]

Along with arbritrarily deciding its "ok" to kill Americans now w/o judicial process, beginning to purge the military of officers who won't give orders to fire on Americans and begining to build a "camp" for 45,000 "migrants" in Guantanimo Bay it sort of makes you wonder............

Larry Gibson

[smoked turkey]

This is totally amazing. For a government that does not believe in private gun ownership, they sure have a lot of guns to feed. They are talking out of both sides of their mouth. Seems what is good for the goose is not good for the gander.

[popper]

And they are purchasing through a straw buyer that just set up a corp. and address for the purchase.

[llwsgn]

Comes to 2000 rounds per employee per year. Though according to what i read on the government website, all dhs employees are to have law enforcement training as they would be holding a federal law enforcement job, I'd surmise that many of them are desk jockeys who would do a considerable amount less active firearms training than some others. What I find more disturbing however is the ratio of 1 dhs federal law agent per roughly each 1168 us citizen exheeding 18 years in age as per data estimated in the 2011 us census. Nevertheless i don't feel a lot of comfort in 1.6 billion rounds in dhs hands.

[Goatwhiskers]

Can you spell Brownshirts? GW

[GabbyM]

Last report I heard US manufactures were producing 1.2 Billion loaded rounds per week. I don't believe that however. 1.6 Billion over four years won't dent that to bad.

Still it's almost a given the majority will either go to the Mexican government or the Mexican drug lords. Oh I almost forgot. Those are the same people.

[GabbyM]

Below is a list of chemicals it takes to make primers. With country of origin.


Chemical Supplier Country of Origin

Barium nitrate Barium and China
Chemicals

Calcium silicide Perkins Rouge Brazil

Magnesium oxide Matrixchem Mexico

Calcium resinate-fused Barium and United
Chemicals States/China/Europe/India

Potassium perchlorate Hummel China
Crouton

Strontium nitrate Barium and China
Chemicals

Strontium oxalate Barium and United
Chemicals States/China/Europe/India

Strontium peroxide Hummel Mexico/United States
Crouton

Magnesium aluminum alloy Reade United States
Manufacturing

Calcium Hummel Mexico
resinate-peripiated Crouton

Magnesium carbonate Matrixchem United States

Barium nitrate Barium and China
Chemicals

Ammonium nitrate Dyno Nobel United States

The primer mix chemicals, the suppliers of those chemicals to ATK, and
the country of origin of the chemicals. All 13 chemicals for primer mix
are for mulated by U.S.-based commercial companies, but 10 chemicals
are imported from outside of the United States (Source: Created by
authors based on data from Alliant Techsystems Purchasing De part ment,
Lake City Army Ammunition Plant, Missouri.)

[TXGunNut]

Here's a little-known fact: Feds practice and qualify with duty ammo, they also furnish ammo to students from other agencies who attend their schools. They generally buy the best ammo they can find. Our tax dollars at work. Their recruits also fire more rounds in training that most local LEO's. Odd thing is (with possible exception of ICE/Border Patrol) most of them are pretty sorry shooters. They need all the training they can get and very few shoot except when required. I don't think they're purchasing an excessive amount of ammo, I think they just have an excessive number of employees.

[Doc65]

llwsgn,

1 dhs federal law agent per roughly each 1168 us citizen exheeding 18 years in age as per data estimated in the 2011 us census? I'm not questioning your accuracy, but damn, do you by chance have a source I can reference?

Doc

[quilbilly]

Some of the HS people do their qualifications at my gun club range. From what I have seen while they practiced, they need a lot more rounds than that if they ever expect to hit anything. I wasn't showing off or anything (well maybe some) but last time I was shooting next to them at a golf ball with my Contender 32/20 and doing a lot better than they were doing with their 7.62 and 5.56 black rifles at 100 yards.

[Doc65]

"I wasn't showing off or anything (well maybe some)"... See now that's something I would NEVER do... :twisted:

[quilbilly]

What they were using for targets irritated me (conservative political figures that I admire). They did leave a lot of valuable brass behind though.

[TXGunNut]

What they were using for targets irritated me (conservative political figures that I admire). They did leave a lot of valuable brass behind though.

Care to elaborate on the targets?

[archmaker]

According to press release that is 5 rounds per per head in the US population! They might want to slow down on their purchases, after all according to an "expert" they only need 7 rounds for self defense <sarcasm>.

[llwsgn]

llwsgn,

1 dhs federal law agent per roughly each 1168 us citizen exheeding 18 years in age as per data estimated in the 2011 us census? I'm not questioning your accuracy, but damn, do you by chance have a source I can reference?

Doc

Hi Doc. Yuh, i went to the dhs site to verify that total dhs employees were exheeding 200,000. Went to census site to get estimated us population split that way as 237 &3/4 million...did some math. Hopefully correctly lol. Guess it sounds more intimidating to label an employee as an agent, but then the dhs site states that Leo training is part of the employment requirement. Pretty high saturation per capita if my math holds up.

[shdwlkr]

Wonder how many of this latest purchase are hollow points like the first go around that HSO bought.
I see so many federal types just doing whatever they are told even if it means killing our own people. Agenda 21 is alive and well in America.
I hope I never see the civil war HSO keeps talking about the last one cost my family dearly and don't see any reason the next one won't either.
I don't know about you guys but even a lousy shooter gets lucky sometimes if they shoot enough bullets.

[Blacksmith]

If you think a billion rounds or so is a lot just do the math on how many rounds you think the public will stockpile when the shortage finally lifts? 500 per family, or maybe 500 per gun, how many are you going to buy? Let's see 30 million households times 500 (one brick).........

[Olevern]

This is totally amazing. For a government that does not believe in private gun ownership, they sure have a lot of guns to feed. They are talking out of both sides of their mouth. Seems what is good for the goose is not good for the gander.

Oh, they don't believe in PRIVATE gun ownership, only in the guns THEY control (military and LEO).
Hitler had the same plan; only the govt. has guns. Makes it much easier to govern/rule.

[shdwlkr]

If you like to read go read how Hitler took over Germany, Just might be some similar events happening here.
If the people can not defend themselves they are no longer free and are there for the pleasure of the Dictator in power do with as is seen fit. Too many old people just get rid of them, need more people to work on dangerous projects just send them if they die it was for the good of all so it is no big deal. Need to find a final solution, that is easy Hitler laid out the ground rules for that think FEMA camps maybe or HSO having some target practice.
I never thought I would see the day that America would be on the brink of becoming a socialist communist state but we are closer than many even realize.
I just hope this plan is derailed some how and we can work on becoming the once great nation we were again one day.
time for milk and cookies

[shooter93]

We just need the addresses of the places they are storing it.

[somedude101]

Good read, I have never heard of Agenda 21 till I read this. Just googled it and blew my mind.

[shdwlkr]

take a read on the New World Order that is good reading also
Agenda 21 is interesting also

[double8]

Just visited every "gun" supply store in this smallish town........I saw 3 lbs of Reloder 25, no primers, very few bullets [mostly the odd ball ones for this area] and their brass, maybe 200 total boxes of shotgun shells, 2 reloading presses, 20 lbs of fake black powder.
SAD, sad, sad.
I'm so glad I grew up in the 40's and 50's.........our high school had a traveling rifle team!!........then came the %&*$# lawyers.

[Smitty's Retired]

It's not only ammo. Check out the article about some of the targets they got a contract for.

http://newsworldwide.wordpress.com/2013/02/20/company-behind-shooting-targets-of-children-received-2-million-from-dhs/

[Harter66]

7.62 N A T O is 200rd / can ,4 cans/ box ,36 boxes /pallet, 14 pallets/truck. A typical bunker is roughly 5000 square feet. Roughly 800 pallets per bunker. Hawthorne Nv. Now kids you double the can count per box for 45/556 triple it for 9mm reduce the truck load to 11-12. Takes 120 trucks give or take 10. It doesn't take as much space as you'd think.

As for me I can't count rounds much past 21.......... :-)

I too pray we can use the soap box and ballot box more than the ammo box,I have no taste for blood. If it come to that that's what we must do.

[.22-10-45]

"purge the military of officers who won't give orders to fire on Americans". Curious to why you feel any purging is necessary?
The United States Army sure didn't have any qualms of firing on Americans..both adult men..and women and children during the Indian wars of the 19th century..culminating with a big slaughter...while attempting a gun confiscation raid..at a place called Wounded Knee. Think history doesn't repeat itself?

[double8]

Abe Lincoln is surely rolling over in his grave................for many reasons. [smilie=1:

[eveready]

Do you remember the liberal outrage when people were shooting at targets with the image of osama bin laden printed on them, I guess it all depends on who is doing the shooting.

[BLTsandwedge]

I'd like to see the contract on this. Back 20 years ago I did quite a bit of contracting with the feds- still do every once in a blue moon. Back then there was something called an 'indefinite quantity contract.' The company I worked for held one. The gist is that the procurement process (bid process) could be circumvented if an initial bid was conducted and a supplier was found to be acceptable, the agency doing the procurement could award an indefinite quantity contract for X years. I think it possible that the contract for ammo would be similar- but instead of only a time-limiting clause, a per-piece clause was added. In other words the contract may read 'up to 1.6MM pieces over X number of years.' This would make sense to me because, in X number years, things change- weapons systems change ergo requirements change (that's how we got $125 hammers back then- a different story though). I believe budgeting may also be a factor i.e. the agency is funded now, but may not be if sequestration is not resolved. Homeland Security will be hit hard if March 1, 2013 comes to pass with no budgeting resolution.

[Tom Myers]

Yesterday I stopped in our local hardware store that, to my knowledge, has never had a shortage of powder, primers or bullets on their shelves. The store had no primers and I purchased the last 2 bottles or Hodgdon Clays and Universal. There were perhaps another four or five various oddball powders remaining on the shelf. The store owner stated that he had called his reloading supplier the day before and they informed him that "There will be no more primers or powder for a long, long time. All of the components are beign used to fulfill ammunition contracts with Homeland Security". To the store owner's credit, the prices on his meager remaining supply of merchandise were not inflated above the retail price that was in place before the shortages began.

[dakotashooter2]

1.6 billion rnds? That MIGHT keep me in ammo for about 5 years....................................LOL

[WILCO]

then came the %&*$# lawyers.

I get tired of reading comments like this. The problem is, and always has been, communist infiltration. They learned how to use and pervert our system against us.

[Larry Gibson]

"purge the military of officers who won't give orders to fire on Americans". Curious to why you feel any purging is necessary?
The United States Army sure didn't have any qualms of firing on Americans..both adult men..and women and children during the Indian wars of the 19th century..culminating with a big slaughter...while attempting a gun confiscation raid..at a place called Wounded Knee. Think history doesn't repeat itself?

Ya really need to get over that one.....there were lots of soldier casualties also. I faced an "enemy" (that's what they were back then....not citizens of the United States) that hid amongst their woman and kids also and now I wear a lot of clothes made by them...........I suppose you hadn't thought to mention the veterens in DC in the 1920s or the students at Kent State but they weren't "natives" were they? Neither of us is making a point germaine to the discussion or problem at hand so there is no point....is there?

Perhaps a better point instead of justifying why US military could/would fire on it's citizens is to discuss how to prevent it, not repeat the past wrongs. That's how I look at it anyway.

Larry Gibson.

[double8]

I get tired of reading comments like this. The problem is, and always has been, communist infiltration. They learned how to use and pervert our system against us.

Well, like it or not, read it or don't read it.....that is exactly what happened.

[double8]

[QUOTE=BLTsandwedge;2073619]I'd like to see the contract on this. Back 20 years ago I did quite a bit of contracting with the feds- QUOTE]

If you were dealing with Federal contracts, you had a clearance, your background was scrutinized. So, tell me, how in the world are the Generals et al, being investigated for various "infractions" maintaining their top level clearances??

[MtGun44]

These articles are bogus. If you go back to the original documents placing the orders, they
are for (for example) 100,000 rounds and the units are XM and the each is 1000 for
pricing. XM means "per M" where "M" is the Roman numeral for 1000.

Basically, some buttheads have read the orders off by a factor of 1000. The particular one
that was dissected by a federal order specialist is actually for 100,000 rounds of .40 cal
ammo, but has been reported to be for 100,000,000 rounds.

The folks that are looking at this are not too up on reading a standard purchase
request for proposal document in "fed speak".

Frankly I am far more concerned about why the IRS has ordered 1000 combat
shotguns and DHS and others 7,000 full auto AR15s. IMO, IRS has NO NEED
for ANY guns whatsoever. DHS needs one .38 Spl revolver per 10 agents,
looking at what they do - basically harass passengers at the airports.

Bill

[double8]

Have you taken a good look at those TSA agents....most of them look like they failed the "do you want fries with that" test. Overweight, disheveled, way too much cologne, terrible command of the English language.

[ole 5 hole group]

Here's a little-known fact: Feds practice and qualify with duty ammo, they also furnish ammo to students from other agencies who attend their schools. They generally buy the best ammo they can find. Our tax dollars at work. Their recruits also fire more rounds in training that most local LEO's. Odd thing is (with possible exception of ICE/Border Patrol) most of them are pretty sorry shooters. They need all the training they can get and very few shoot except when required. I don't think they're purchasing an excessive amount of ammo, I think they just have an excessive number of employees.

I think you're absolutely correct on all points except the ammo quality - the ammo request is put out for bid and they purchase from the lowest bidders – now, the shooting teams, both LE & military have been known to test a lot or two of the different manufacturers best match grade ammo and sometimes wind up ordering the entire lot with that ammo going to the top shooters – the up & comers only get the run of the mill match grade – yup, the taxpayers money but the shooters do appreciate it.

Now the rest of the Feds shoot whatever is purchased from the low bidders and some of that is real poor quality relative to accuracy at 100 yards (talking 223 ammo) but they only shoot for the most part at 25/50 yards at a torso target, so it really doesn't matter to them.

[GabbyM]

Have you taken a good look at those TSA agents....most of them look like they failed the "do you want fries with that" test. Overweight, disheveled, way too much cologne, terrible command of the English language.

All you need to qualify as a TSA agent is to be 250 pond over weight and 6 foot eight inches tall. Then have the ability to call you out by your name after you perform the daunting task of reading a computer screen.

My favorite thing is to hand them my Illinois FOID card instead of my DL when they ask for ID. Last year in St Louis that drew three huge fat boys with machine pistols strapped onto there Kevlar. If they'd stuck there chest out any further they'd of fallen over backwards. TSA equals just another huge waste of our money.

[10x]

Just so long as they did not order them from China or contractors outside the U.S.A.
Buy American guys.

[double8]

I once gave them my carry permit along with the drivers license since they are both in the same ID carry case....TSA asked; "you aren't carrying are you?"....NAH.........duh.[smilie=1:

Our state suggests you show both if you are stopped by police....they would know instantly anyway that you could be carrying when they check your license, so it's best you tell them up front that you have a permit. Saves any further questioning.

[TXGunNut]

I think you're absolutely correct on all points except the ammo quality - the ammo request is put out for bid and they purchase from the lowest bidders ....ole 5 hole group

I guess my knowledge is dated, have a vivid memory of a bunch of feds using a local PD range and shooting up cases of Federal pistol ammo in 50 rd boxes. Stuff was pretty pricey back then.
Shooting teams are a different story, as you know. I bought my own guns, loaded my own ammo, paid for gas, hotels, meals and entry fees and my dept didn't even know where I was shooting that week. Local PD teams had limited support, state teams a bit more, Fed teams had much more support. Border Patrol and ICE had and probably still have some great teams.
Suspect TSA guys are pretty awesome at video games, no idea what Homeland Security is good at besides spending our tax money on toys they don't want us to know about.