I Have Slugged, . . . Now, What Sizer Die Do I Get?

[Jeff R]

What size sizer die should I get?

I got this Rem 770 off the used rack at my LGS. It sat there all last fall, through hunting season, through Christmas, with the bases and rings, with a price tag of $450. Finally, I couldn’t take it any more. I figure that I will make this a dedicated cast Boolit rifle. It’s pretty light, and I figured it would be great for shooting low recoiling cast loads.

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I slugged it and the slug measures .308. I cast some .30 cal boolits today, using a Lyman 311 41 FN GC mold and a Lyman 311 291 RN GC mold.

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The RN boolits were pretty consistently .3095 dia. The FN boolits were all somewhat larger.

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What sizer die should I get.

My assumptions are:

* I can TL the .3095 RN and shoot them as cast, using “Mattern’s 200 Yard Target” load, using 16 grains of 2400.

* I can GC those later on, and shoot them above 1500 fps, with the right lube.

* The .3130 FN boolits - Are these too big to shoot, as cast, through this rifle, or do they require sizing? Eventually, I would like to put GC’s on these also.

Can I size both these boolits with one sizer die? Will that one die work for GC’s too?

Can I shoot the .3130 boolits as cast, using TL?

I have ordered 2500+ Lube for my Lubesizer.

I slugged a couple of each boolit, just to see what they would look like, compared to an “as cast” boolit.

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That is a lot of questions for one post.
Thanks!
Jeff

[Jeff R]

The rifle is a Remington 700, not a 770

:)

[40Super]

The mic in the picture is reading .3074 ,not rounded up to .308, something to not do in this case. You will want to size to .309. The .313 bullets are too big to shoot as dropped(IIRC) , sizing them to .309 will deform them quite a bit, they may not work very good. Idealy you want your mold to drop .001 to .003"(max) over the size you want to size to. Any more and the lube grooves get closed up and the bullets will bend from the pressure of pushing through the sizer.

The .3095 bullets can be shot as cast if you wish, try them both ways (run through a sizer and as cast) to see if one way shoots better.

There are others here that have way more info for cast in rifles than me so they should be able to clear things up better. Good luck

[Maven]

Jeff, Shooting CB's designed for gas checks without said checks has produced widely varied results. While unchecked CB's can be very accurate, you have to control velocity. Typically, 1,600fps is the upper limit. Unfortunately, 16grs. of 2400 is very close to that limit. Also, there's another test to perform with your "as cast" CB's: Take a few of each design and place them in the muzzle. If they drop in as far as the driving bands with little or no resistance, the [bore riding] noses are too small, meaning accuracy may suffer. OTOH, if they meet with resistance and have their noses engraved by the rifling, accuracy may be at least very good IF you find the correct diameter to size them to.

If this was my rifle, I'd test them "as cast," but with gas checks seated if at all possible and then experiment with sizing diameters. I think I'd start with a Lee .309" push through sizing die, which will also seat the gas checks. (Check a few sized CB's to make sure it really is .309".) If you get accurate results, you're ahead of the game. If not, you can easily lap the die out* in 0.005" increments until you reach nirvana.


*Look for Buckshot's article, "How to Hone a Sizing Die" in CASTPICS (bottom of your screen).

[duck hollow pete]

1/2 mile from nowhere is correct on both accounts, I would add you got lucky on size with that 311291, nice bore riding nose, start with that one. With that wt your alloy is softer than lym #2, should be 169 but who knows, but thats ok. I would check it and size it in the lubesizer with a .309 die see what it comes out at they can vary, check over all length and go from there. What cal. is it?

[Larry Gibson]

JeffR

As mentioned acceptable accuracy using un GC'd bullets such as the 311291 can be iffy. My experience with such is that if cast soft and not pushed over 1100 or so fps and pushed by Bullseye powder I can usually get acceptable accuracy. Most often best accuracy is down in the 800 - 1000 fps range though. Some report accuracy upwards of 1500 fps with such but I prefer to just GC the bullets for that. All in all I've found it a lot easiers to just get a PB designed mould and use it for such loads. I would suggest the inexpensive Lee TL314-90-SWC for your new rifle.

However, with the 311291 I would TL them as cast with straight LLA and strat them over 4 gr of Bullseye and work up in 1/2 gr increments until accuracy went south or was not obtained at all at 8 gr.

Larry Gibson

BTW; I suggest a .309 sizer for those specific bullets when you do GC and size in the lubrisizer. While .311 is generally my "go to" size for .30 cals I have .308. .309, .310 and .311 sizers to specificaly tailor the bullet size to the chamber throat instead of the groove diameter.

[Wayne Smith]

What lube sizer do you have? Yes, the same die can be used for any boolit that needs that size. If you are sizing down the larger boolit I would suggest a die around .312 as an initial lube size. Once the lube rings are filled you can size down without sacrificing the lube - it doesn't compress. Either that or sell that mold to someone with a Mosin or an Enfield and buy one that fits your rifle!

You seat the gas check by hand and then seal it with the lube sizer. This compresses the top of the gas check to the shaft of the boolit. Larry has a good point, what ever sizer you get now is likely only to be your first! If you buy a .309 now sooner or later you will be wondering what might happen if they are sized to .310, or .311, etc. It is an addiction, get used to that and plan your purchases.

[NSP64]

I would fire a factory load in it, take the fired case and measure the inside of the case mouth. This will tell you how big of boolit you can use. Size to just under the mouth diameter.
Inside of case measures .313, size boolits to .311. Then check with dummy cartridge for fit in rifle.

[Jeff R]

Thank You for your replies. When starting out in this casting, a person doesn’t realize how much there is to learn. I’ll try to answer the questions you raised.

I am going to set aside the 311-41 bullets for another day. I have a 30.30 and a couple .303 Brits that they might work in.

I placed a 311-291 in the muzzle and it engraved the rifling close to the nose. From reading the sticky on chamber throats, this should be a positive thing.

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I don’t have to start out with 16 grains of 2400. I got that “off the internet.” The cartridge is 30.06.

The 311-291 sample boolit weighed 83 gr. as opposed to the advertised 170 gr. I was using about 2/3 x-ray lead and 1/3 wheel weights, with enough tin added so it seemed to fill out well. More WW would make it lighter?

This is probably not the optimal alloy for .30 cal rifle boolits. What would you recommend? Something like pure wheel weights? I’m coach-able. You won’t hurt my feelings by telling it like it is. (Well, maybe for a little while)

I have a RCBS Lube-A-Matic 2. I recently bought it, used, (barely used) and have not set it up yet. Also, I recently bought a used Star Lube-Sizer that came with .45 and .44 pistol dies. I haven’t used that either. I still have my day job going, and it is winter here, which limits shooting. I figure that I’ll do rifle boolits in the RCBS Lube-A-Matic.

I have yet to seat a gas check. Intuitively, it would seem to me that it would be better to seat them with the base of the bullet going into the die first, with the GC on it, as opposed to the bullet tip going into the die first. In real life, does one way work better than the other, or doesn’t it matter?

I measured the neck of a fired case. I also re-slugged the barrel and re-measured the new slug. It came out the same as the first one, which I had trouble measuring. Even some simple things improve with a little practice.

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Today, I ordered .309 and .310 sizer dies for the Lube-A-Matic. I’ll have the Perfessor make me a nose punch. I ordered 1000 Hornady GC’s. We are looking at 3 to 4 weeks for delivery.
Wayne Smith wrote: “It is an addiction, get used to that and plan your purchases.” Luckily, I can quit whenever I want.

Thanks again for your help. I might not be done with you yet though.
Jeff

[454PB]

I'm guessing you meant 183 grains, rather than 83.

X-ray lead can be anything from pure lead to an alloy that is about the same hardness as wheel weights. I use both a Star and Lyman 450 lubrisizers, and it really doesn't matter whether the boolit is sized base first or nose first, as long as the gas check is squarely fitted before the sizing happens. A crooked gas check guarantees inaccuracy. If they are a tight fit on the base and tend to seat crooked, seat them fully on the base beforehand.

Depending on the alloy hardness, an oversized boolit (.309" to .311") can be damaged when seated because the standard case resizing die is designed for .308" jacketed bullets. If this happens, you'll need to open the case neck before seating the oversized boolit. The Lyman "M" dies are designed to do this, but you can create your own tool depending on you abilities.

You may want to do a search on heat treating/water dropping as a means of hardening your boolits. Sometimes that's simpler than looking for harder alloys or tools to expand the case mouth.

[Jeff R]

454PB,
That is the info that I needed, about which end to seat first, to seat the GC. I did mean 183 gr., as you suspected. I also got the .30 cal M Die a couple weeks ago. It was about the only thing I have ordered lately that was in stock.
Thank You,
Jeff

[40Super]

Nose first sizers has less of a tendency to bend the long noses on the boolits. When you do the first couple, roll then on a flat surface and look carefully for any runout. A couple roller and an indicator would be best but rolling them can work.

[Wayne Smith]

"I can quit whenever I want"! That's what all addicts say, we are no different.