casting .223/5.56 101#

[BLACKTALON]

I have only cast for straight wall pistol to this point, but would like to cast for .223 rifle. I briefly looked into swagging as that would most ideally replicate currently marketed rifle bullets. Due to initial start-up costs and imagined output capabilities, swagging is out of the question. which brings me to the point. Can I cast .223 for a bolt gun and auto loader while maintaining the simplicity of pistol bullet casting? I know there is probably related info on this forum somewhere but my time is very limited and it is much easier to post my specific ?s.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Can I cast .223 for a bolt gun and auto loader while maintaining the simplicity of pistol bullet casting? I know there is probably related info on this forum somewhere but my time is very limited and it is much easier to post my specific ?s.

the answer is YES.

I use a GB NOE mold, works in my AR in 5.56nato with 1:9 bbl as well as a CZ bolt gun with 1:12 twist. A gas check is a must for both.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?101265-Rerun-NOE-22-055-FN-GC-55Gr

This mold is a copy of a RCBS 22-055, but mine drops boolits at 60gr. and I here other's say the same. A 2 cav. RCBS mold may be cheaper, if you can find a used one and may make bullets closer to 55 gr. if that's what you prefer.

NOE has some in stock.
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=24&osCsid=nhhvt7ck55jesjsj800d12l392

There are other molds for boolits for 223rem/5.56nato, I don't have any experience with other molds, other members may chime in.

ALSO, JT is talking about a custom mold in the makes.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?178680-Would-you-buy-this-Mold-223-5-56gr-GC

there is also lots of advice in this section "CB Loads/military rifles" like this thread, you can search for more.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?173275-Advice-on-loading-cast-223

good luck,
Jon

[runfiverun]

you can cast 223 boolits.
i wouldn't say doing so would be as simple as casting revolver boolits.
the casting itself is not difficult.
the rejection rate is much higher,and getting on target results is more difficult.
unless you are expecting the same results at 100 you would get from a revolver.

not 44 mans results,my results.

if you want groups at 100 and not minute of target backer you have to put in the work.
into the boolits and the reloading time.
there are no short-cuts.

[BLACKTALON]

the answer is YES.

I use a GB NOE mold, works in my AR in 5.56nato with 1:9 bbl as well as a CZ bolt gun with 1:12 twist. A gas check is a must for both.


When are gas checks not needed, if ever?

barrels are 1/7 on semi and 1/12 on bolt, FYI

Thx

[MT Gianni]

In general, when you shoot over 1500 fps you need gas checks. As an aside I usually get better results using a gc on molds designed for them.

[Larry Gibson]

you can cast 223 boolits.
i wouldn't say doing so would be as simple as casting revolver boolits.
the casting itself is not difficult.
the rejection rate is much higher,and getting on target results is more difficult.
unless you are expecting the same results at 100 you would get from a revolver.

not 44 mans results,my results.

if you want groups at 100 and not minute of target backer you have to put in the work.
into the boolits and the reloading time.
there are no short-cuts.

Couldn't have answered any better.....

Larry Gibson

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

When are gas checks not needed, if ever?
barrels are 1/7 on semi and 1/12 on bolt, FYI
Thx

You might need a heavier boolit for that 1:7 than the NOE 60gr that I use. And I suspect that anything heavier than 60gr won't be that great in a 1:12 ...but that's just my guess.

I have a Ranch Dog mold TL225-50 RF that is a plain base. I load plinkers (w/o gas checks) in 223 for my bolt gun. about 4.0 gr of Red Dot get's 'em goin' about 1600fps.

Good Luck,
Jon

[BLACKTALON]

I checked the links at the top of the post. the NOE 62 gr rn caught my eye but don't seam to be available in 5 cavity as do the fn. when casting , I like volume. would like to see the TL225-50 RF.
What if any, are the lubrication variables. For pistol I have been using Lee Alox for simplicity.

Basically, I am looking for a low cost plinking solution to the higher and higher cost of factory ammo.

Jon, Is that a typo??? only 4 grs red dot??

[runfiverun]

no that's not a typo it won't function an ar.
in your bolt gun for general work there are lots of powders that will give you 22 mag velocity's.
and lessen your efforts. [if you don't mind 2" groups]
in your fast twist ar you will have to either live with it as a single shot,at the lower velocities or put out the effort.

[P.K.]

You might need a heavier boolit for that 1:7 than the NOE 60gr that I use. And I suspect that anything heavier than 60gr won't be that great in a 1:12 ...but that's just my guess.

I have a Ranch Dog mold TL225-50 RF that is a plain base. I load plinkers (w/o gas checks) in 223 for my bolt gun. about 4.0 gr of Red Dot get's 'em goin' about 1600fps.

Good Luck,
Jon

BlackTalon,

JonB's "guess" is a modest Spot On. Weather using cast or J-words your twist rate is going to define the performance of the projectiile. Perhaps no other round/cal has had so many debates as the .223/5.56 for performance and twist characteristics.

What you have in short is a caster's dream, one caliber and two platforms that will just about cover a good portion of the available projectiles out there either cast or j-word. The faster of the two you mentioned 1:7 will generally perform better with 60gr. wts and heavier. The only limitation is your COL's and wheather or not you want and auto-loader or a single shot. Your bolt gun with it's slower twist is going to like the lighter end of the spectrum with 55's and lighter. Although I wouldn't hesitate to fool around with heavier for the sake of argument. Rule of thumb, a faster twist is to stabilize longer heavier projectiles, while the slower is to calm down the shorter, lighter ones.

Bottom line, have fun with it and good luck!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

..would like to see the TL225-50 RF. What if any, are the lubrication variables. For pistol I have been using Lee Alox for simplicity. Basically, I am looking for a low cost plinking solution to the higher and higher cost of factory ammo. Jon, Is that a typo??? only 4 grs red dot??

NO TYPO.
when I embarked on the 223 plinker load, I seen a post somewhere on CB that mentioned 6.0gr. of Red Dot with a 50 or 55 gr. boolit and a expected velocity of about 1800FPS. WELL, that's about what I wanted...BUT 6gr gave me a "pattern" instead of a group in my 1:12 CZ boltgun (like 20" at 50 yds). as I lowered the charge, I got better accuracy. When I got to 4.0gr I was getting less than 2" groups at 50 yds, chrony said 1600FPS. I have yet to try 100 yards.

TL225-50 RF
These molds are no longer available. Ranch Dog http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/ had Lee custom make them in their 6 cav. format. I had Ranch Dog remove the gas check shank on all the cavities for a cheap plinker boolit, an option he offered at the time.
http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/bin/TLC22550RF/bullet/sketch.jpg
Good Luck,
Jon

PS...Here is a photo of my TL225-50 RF from my archives.
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/454510closeup.jpg

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

no that's not a typo it won't function an ar.
in your bolt gun for general work there are lots of powders that will give you 22 mag velocity's.

I haven't done any testing yet (but I plan to this summer), but I think I read somewhere that you need a 60gr GC'ed boolit going about 2400FPS to operate an AR (or was that 2200FPS?).
Jon

[Larry Gibson]

With the correct powder (4895 and slower burning) you can get any AR in .223 to function with a 60 gr GC'd cast bullet. I generally push 55 - 60 gr cast at 1800 - 1950 fps with complete reliable functioning.

Larry Gibson

[runfiverun]

ar's work on gas volume and port pressure.
i haven't tried to hard to see what else i can do with mine i spent my efforts working on velocity and accuracy.
i found a starting jaxketed load that works for me and i go with it.

[P.K.]

I haven't done any testing yet (but I plan to this summer), but I think I read somewhere that you need a 60gr GC'ed boolit going about 2400FPS to operate an AR (or was that 2200FPS?).
Jon

Jon,

The CBH makes refrence to the port issue but is vauge about it. Stated velocities of 1800-2300 FPS for cast/accuracy. My Clone has a standard AR carbine bbl and will take some "tweeking" to find the sweet spot. Here is the "BUT" for those that have a piston system (like my 6.8) there are the options of adjusting the ports output to suit the need. Again, a little testing will be required but alot of folks on here have been fooling around with this(Cast in AR's) alot longer than I have.

Case in point:

With the correct powder (4895 and slower burning) you can get any AR in .223 to function with a 60 gr GC'd cast bullet. I generally push 55 - 60 gr cast at 1800 - 1950 fps with complete reliable functioning.

Larry Gibson

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Larry and P.K.
that's for the info.
I am quite new to AR rifles.
Jon

[Wilkie]

I have enjoyed casting .223/5.56. I have not enjoyed sorting and finding the right brass. Since there are many brass casings that have a crimp in the primer pocket, you need to really be careful when you prime. This one thing has caused me more heartache than any other aspect of casting for my AR. I agree with comments above about a slower burning powder such as an H4895 or IMR4895.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I have enjoyed casting .223/5.56. I have not enjoyed sorting and finding the right brass. Since there are many brass casings that have a crimp in the primer pocket, you need to really be careful when you prime. This one thing has caused me more heartache than any other aspect of casting for my AR. I agree with comments above about a slower burning powder such as an H4895 or IMR4895.

Wilkie,
have you processed that PMC brass I sold you ? was there crimped primer pockets on some of those ?
Jon

[runfiverun]

the primer crimps are easily dealt with,with the correct tools.
did you know that some 45 acp have crimped primer pockets too.
and 308 and 30-06 and..

[BLACKTALON]

Thanks All for the feedback. I have always liked ww748 for my AR reloads but at 27 grs per rd you don't get too many out of a lb of powder.
the RCBS primer pocket swagger is the solution to crimped primer pockets. bought one early on in my 223 reloading and never regretted it.

[Wilkie]

JonB,

No crimps it what you sold me....thank goodness! I went out today and used my Chrony on my cast ARs (NOE 55 Grain Gas Checked). Tumble lubed with Liquid Alox. I used 19 grains of H4895 with CCI 400 primers. I averaged 2110 FPS with my 20" 1/9 twist AR and 1972 FPS on my 18" 1/9 twist SU 16. It all cycled well.....Accuracy tests next.