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View Full Version : "Squib" loads - what am I doing wrong?



Triggernosis
02-15-2013, 04:57 PM
Figured out the problem - see my post below a few down from here.
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I loaded up a batch of Lee 358-125's RF for .38 Spec. that I purchased from someone else (I don't cast, myself) with various loads of W-231 powder from 3.2 to 4.3 grains. CCI primers, OAL of 1.413 if I recall correctly.
Anyway, I had one bullet lodge in the barrel followed by another one that locked up the cylinder. I knew the first one sounded "wimpy" and I should have stopped right there, but didn't. Anyway, the second round must have been wimpy enough to just push against the previous bullet and not blow up my revolver. After removing the bullets by using an aluminum rod to punch them back down into the case, I ended up having 3 more loads that just kinda went "pfffft" resulting in a bullet lodge in the barrel...just far enough in that the bullet was deep enough to allow the cylinder to still open.
This happened with two different .38 Spec. revolvers. I've loaded a couple thousand rounds of "regular" Hornady and Speer lead WC's and SWC's over the past couple of years without one single problem, so I must be doing something wrong with these new cast bullets, but what is it? I can see me missing the power in a case, but not several.
I should also mention that several of the rounds had a diameter large enough that they didn't want to go fully into my revolver that I know has tighter cylinder holes (Cimarron Model P Jr.).
I've attached a somewhat blurry picture showing how deep I seated my bullets, with just a barely bump-crimp - hardley any at all.
Any suggestions as to what I may be doing wrong?61334

lwknight
02-15-2013, 05:10 PM
Win 231 will light off with any primer and 3.0+ graind will toss any bullet out the barrel at least 600 fps.
I think your powder got wet or something. A little wax on the bullet would not matter and seating would not matter because you have lots of air space.

P.K.
02-15-2013, 05:13 PM
Your powder charge is right, but the "pop and no kick" sounds like bad powder. Glad you were not hurt!

Triggernosis
02-15-2013, 05:50 PM
Well, I figured it out - I DID miss the powder charge, and here's what happened. I just pulled the remaining rounds that I didn't fire and found that there was anywhere from just a few flakes to basically zero in several of the rounds. And I'm pretty sure how I did it: I turned my Lee powder measure to "Off" when I was changing the shell plate between rounds and likely forgot to turn it back on afterwards, resulting in a "weak" charge for the first round, a weaker charge for the next round, and basically nothing from then on....
Thank goodness I was shooting my rounds from "left to right" out of the cartridge box and not the other way around. I came REALLY close to causing a very dangerous situation with my mistake. I should have visually checked each case before putting a bullet on it, and from now on I will not forget to do that! I was wearing safety glasses and outdoors alone, so it probably wouldn't have resulted in serious injury or death, just the destruction of my S&W 60-4 revolver.

BTW, how deep should I be seating these 125's? Is that top groove for crimping into or what?

NSP64
02-15-2013, 06:02 PM
the top groove is for crimping the case mouth into .
I have had no problems with powder not being in since I started reloading on a single stage press .

Love Life
02-15-2013, 06:12 PM
The top groove is THE crimp groove. Seat to there and roll crimp. One of my favorite boolits to shoot out of the 38 special over 5 gr of unique.

Treetop
02-15-2013, 07:45 PM
Triggernosis, Years and years ago, I "jury rigged" an inspection mirror to my Dillon RL-300. It is situated to where I can "look" into each case before I set the boolit on it, without having to strain, to move my head.

Over the years, it has saved me from several "primer only" incidents and one potential kaboom. I was interrupted by a phone call, just as I charged a .45 ACP case with 5.4 gr of WW 231.

When I returned, I charged the case again, indexed the shell plate (the early Dillon RL-300, is indexed by hand), looked into my mirror and had a case full of 231! Would I have noticed it without the mirror? Probably, but not necessarily. It shook me up so bad, I stopped loading for the evening, even though I had a match that coming weekend.

Mechanics inspection mirrors are cheap insurance, IMO. Tt.

Triggernosis
02-15-2013, 08:37 PM
I use a single stage press only. I almost always peek in the cases before I begin seating bullets. Well, I learned that it only takes one time not doing it to create a potential disaster. God taught me this lesson today without injuring me. He wasn't so kind with my minibike as a kid......:-D

Eagle66
02-15-2013, 10:38 PM
Triggernosis, I appreciate this thread, because I will be working up some light loads for my wife using this same boolit as soon as the mold arrives(next week, they promise). I've had to fight the "it's only a light load so I don't have to sweat it" mind trap, and your post is a timely reminder.

To avoid becoming complacent when I reload, I set up a routine when when I first started so that the problems/errors should be avoided by visual separation of each step from the others. Basicly, every step has a cutout from the next. I put my fired cases in a bowl. After sizing & priming, each one goes into a block upside down so I can check the primers. When charging, I take one empty case from that block, charge and put it in different block on the other side of the press. I check some charge weights at random on the scale. After charging, I ALWAYS look into EVERY case on the block with a flashlight before I even bring the boolits to the bench. Then I inspect & wipe off each finished one before putting it in the box. OCD on steroids? Yeah, probably, but if I came back from the range with missing parts, holes in my body, or a wrecked weapon, I would never hear the end of it from my wife. Especially if it was her pistol.

I apologize for being overly critical, but when it comes to safety checks, almost always is the same as never. Like you said, it only takes one to ruin everyone's day.

BTW, how did that load come out after you were done with developing it? I'm looking for light recoil with good accuracy.

Super Sneaky Steve
02-15-2013, 10:43 PM
I check each case three times. Once after the charge, again when all 50 are sitting in my tray with a flashlight then again just before I seat the bullet.

Another thing I do is after I have my 50 charged cases in my tray is I take the box of primed uncharged brass and remove it from the table.

I once shut my brain off and reached into that box and loaded a bullet. I noticed it right after and pulled it. Since then I always remove the brass that I'm not loading.

Triggernosis
02-15-2013, 11:45 PM
BTW, how did that load come out after you were done with developing it? I'm looking for light recoil with good accuracy.
Unfortunately, I left the range with both revolvers with stuck bullets in the barrels, so I didn't get a chance to completely finish. From what I DID shoot, through, it was looking like 3.7-3.8 grains was a sweet spot.

44man
02-16-2013, 09:40 AM
I refuse to trust any progressive press. A wiggle on your part is enough for bad stuff to happen. I use a block to charge brass and only use my Redding powder measure with powder that flows so I can watch it go through the plastic tube. Other powders are thrown just short and trickled into a scale pan.
EVERY case is inspected before a boolit goes near them.

dverna
02-16-2013, 11:25 AM
Trig,
If you are using a single stage press, seat the bullet IMMEDIATELY after you drop the powder charge. DO NOT let the case leave your hand. By doing this, it is impossible to double charge a case. It is also a faster way to load as you are not setting charged cases into a loading block and then picking them up again to seat the bullet.

NEVER use one of those "pistol measures" that one moves over cases standing upright on a loading block. It is too easy to double charge a case/lose your place/get interrupted etc etc.

If you shoot a lot of pistol ammo you will not load on a single stage press for very long. When you move to a progressive I offer this advice. Get an auto indexing press as they have a lower chance of producing a double charge, and get a press that has five stations so you can add a powder check die. Find a place that has no distractions from the wife, kids, cats, TV etc.

Almost all of us have had squib loads and we learn from them. A double charge will be a more serious "learning experience" and most unpleasant.