Lube running out?

[tacotime]

Ruger #3 .45-70 shooting Laser-Cast 350 FP hard cast. 22in barrel. Shooting under 1400fps, usually 1300. Usually not more than 15 shots without cleaning. Always marveled at how clean the breech end of the bore was after shooting and cleaning. Thought it was fine. Didn't think that much about the muzzle.

Then the other day light hit the muzzle just right and it looked leaded up. Went to clean again and found it very dirty. Way more than expected.

Is this an issue with the lube running out at the end?

Is this a known issue with Laser-Cast?

I know they don't use Veral's lube.

[44man]

I never had luck with Laser Cast boolits. Lots of hype. Poor lube too. Hard junk best for shipping, not shooting.
Then boolit diameter from commercial makers do not fit all.

[captaint]

taco - While I don't have a lot of rifle shooting experience with cast, I would say that running out of
lube is a very high probability. Also, shooting at velocities of 13 ot 1400 fps, you don't need "hard
cast" boolits. Sounds like you're getting gas blow by near the muzzle - so.. I would try a softer
alloy, not dead soft - maybe straight WW's and a little tin. Try a softer lube. I find Veral's Blue Soft
to work real well in my pistols and my 38-55. See if that don't get it done. Just my .02. Mike

[waksupi]

I would boil their lousy lube off, re-lube, and shoot them. Then make your own, so you don't have to contend with store bought boolits.

[tacotime]

Thanks... I'm stuck with a load of these boolits. Would ALOX help them in .45-70 below 1400 fps?

[Westwindmike]

That's what I'd do. Tumble lube in Alox and shoot them.

[geargnasher]

Agree with Westwindmike, although personally I'd boil that lousy stuff off and pan lube them with Simple Lube or Ben's Red, the recipes for which will come up in a brief site search or google search. Use the lubing method outlined by Ben in the sticky titled "So you can't afford one?". Then, start casting your own out of a more appropriate alloy and get a lube-sizer!

Gear

[PhantomF4E]

Agree a little tumble lube should make it right

[MaineJim]

A while back i was given a 500 round box of .310 laser cast boolits that needed gas checks(they used to come sans checks) and i was getting some lead wash as well.
Ended up removing the lube,replaced with Felix lube and they actualy shot very well in my savage .308 without any more leading.

[1Shirt]

Like 44Man, have not had great luck with Lazer Cast.
1Shirt!

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Tacotime,

As I cast and lube my own boolits, I'll just share what I have seen as per lube.

Working up loads in my RUGER #1 45/70 and shooting velocities as high as a touch over 2500fps with a 355gr, I would see slight leading in the last couple inches of the bore.

Now, I did use some of the LBT blue soft lube that Vearl Smith makes, but even though it is claimed that shooting his lube will clean the bore of any lead fouling present, it didn't.

Good lube, but it didn't stop that slight bit of fouling.

However, one of the lubes I tested was the White Label, "BAC" product and it not only shot well, but after shooting loads with the BAC, the barrel was bright and shinny from end to end.

Also the White Label Lube people are great folks to deal with.

By the way, my current load is a 465gr WFN which at 1650fps is just awesome on game up and including elk.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[tacotime]

Good info, thanks. I guess ALOX is the first remedy. No other casting or lubing experience yet...

465 at 1650 sounds like a hammer.

I have beat the 350 FP to death to find a great light to medium load, and I guess getting about 1.75 inches at 100y may be about as good as it gets for the little Ruger #3 and Laser-cast. Probably I'm not a lot better than that even if the gun was...

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Tacotime,

It might possibly be the same with your #3 as it was with my #1.

My testing not only didn't find any really consistant loads with the 355gr WFN/LBT cast I tried, but the groups were just not that great, pushing the 2" and larger mark.

The 465gr is just much better in my rifle.

While it is not an abusive recoil situation in the #1, I use a sissy bag at the bench for most rifles over the 243.

However, with the different butt style and butt plate on the #3, I know of at least two fellers who have swarn off shooting the 45/70 in a #3.

I think in both cases, they were handed a rifle with loads on the "wild" side and once was enough.

When I first shot my #1, it was done with the iron sights, and because of the low head position needed for use of the iron sights, it was VERY PAINFUL due to the beating my face was taking.

Higher head position with the scope, problem and pain GONE!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[tacotime]

I don't think I ever shot the #3 with the original buttplate. The one I got had been cut straight and a small pad installed. Oddly, the recoil has never bothered me, though I am rarely shooting over 1500, so I am not getting the full knock either.

I need to slug this barrel. Never really thought much about the diameter. I got a load of 350gr Laser-cast because they happened to be there at the time and I figured 350 was a good weight because it shot well with 350 jacketed Hornadys. Just an assumption without much merit.

I guess the groups I am getting really aren't that bad. I vaguely was expecting 1 inch groups. But this is a hunting rifle and not a target or long range varminter. And a neat, odd, peculiar, unique little rifle at that. Completely different than what I grew up with or that anyone had in Texas that I ever saw. I'm happy with it, although I keep knawing at it, looking for that one ragged hole.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Good post Tacotime!

I also have needed to make some adjustments after begining my walk with the 45/70.

The first was the manner in which I developed my hand loads after many years of loading for high velocity Centerfires.

2300 - 2500fps w/the 355gr cast was fun on paper and had they shot as well as desired, I might still be there. Well maybe not??

However, when I saw the first wound channel caused by a WFN cast, I wondered just what in the world had I unleashed. AS is many times said about game taken with cast bullets, you can eat right up to the bullet hole. However, I simply had no idea that a non-expanding bullet could/would leave such a huge, and I mean REALLY HUGE hole.

That 355gr WFN at a bit over 2300fps at muzzle was simply way over kill.

The second was in grouping expectations.

Not that I don't still desire the nice little sub inch groups, but in what in reality is needed for hunting at the ranges within which I feel the 45/70 is best suited.

My current load and 465gr WFN at a poky 1650fps is just soooooo much better. Great wound channel that runs all the way from here to waaaaay over there and much greater consistancy and groups.

As I have stated before, I sure wish I'd started down this 45/70 with cast boolits road before I was rapidly coming to the end of my hunting years.

This sure is a fun trip, and every additional critter is a real mile stone. Especially the two elk taken with this wonderful old cartridge and my beautiful single shot. :-D

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[tacotime]

That's right.

I grew up where everyone either shot .270, 30-06 or .30-30, and only saw other calibers in the ballistic chart in back of the catalog, and no one had a single shot, or even a Ruger for that matter. I just thought they were some kind of off brand.

Then one day 25 years ago some guys had a fat rifle and told me shoot it while they chuckled, which I did not want to do. It was a .45-70, and I fired and flinched with my eyes closed and completely missed a large target at close range while they laughed. Never thought that much about it again because of the embarrassment...

Somehow 22 years later I stumbed on the #3, said to be owned by a guy who had a government contract to cut off the tops of trees to create bird habitat on the ground. He didn't want to use a chainsaw and climb trees, so he was shooting off the tops with the .45-70. I liked big bore handguns and wild hogs were moving in, so I thought I'd try it, and fell into the old underworld of single shots and old .45-70 cartridges, and the lore, and later Paul Mathews' book and the folks who shoot these guns seemed royal like my granddad, who was royal without being wealthy.

Hunting and shooting with these is a whole different feeling than it used to be. Really put the fun back in it.