.44-40 Help!

[Armand]

I have several .44-40´s, one Uberti Henry, one Win 94, one Uberti 7 1/2" Rem 1875 clone.

Now I got my first hard(er) Bullets ... 200 grs CAS FP bullets with one generous grease groove.

.429 Wich 200gr FLN

As this loads will be used in short and long guns, and I DO NOT like weak loads, which route should I go?

I like Unique and VV N 340.

Have heard good things about 4759 (?).

N 110 should be similar in burn speed to 2400 ...?

Do the slower powders do less harm to the "weak" Toggle link?

But then why are there .44 Magnum chamberings in new Uberti 73s?

Please help me with your favourite loads and collective or unique experiences.

TIA Hermann

P.S.: when looking through this forums, it seems, nobody loads .44-40.

.380, .45 ACP and .444 seem to be the "in" thing.

Oh, and there´s lots of Threads, LOTS of them! about troubles w 9 mm CB loading ... ;-)

[cwskirmisher]

I have several .44-40´s, one Uberti Henry, one Win 94, one Uberti 7 1/2" Rem 1875 clone.

Now I got my first hard(er) Bullets ... 200 grs CAS FP bullets with one generous grease groove.

.429 Wich 200gr FLN

As this loads will be used in short and long guns, and I DO NOT like weak loads, which route should I go?

I like Unique and VV N 340.

Have heard good things about 4759 (?).

N 110 should be similar in burn speed to 2400 ...?

Do the slower powders do less harm to the "weak" Toggle link?

But then why are there .44 Magnum chamberings in new Uberti 73s?

Please help me with your favourite loads and collective or unique experiences.

TIA Hermann

P.S.: when looking through this forums, it seems, nobody loads .44-40.

.380, .45 ACP and .444 seem to be the "in" thing.

Oh, and there´s lots of Threads, LOTS of them! about troubles w 9 mm CB loading ... ;-)

First - look in a good loading manual. There are two levels of loads for the 44-40 in the Lyman 49th. For the Henry, stick to loads in the weaker action category. For Unique, I believe that puts you in the around ~7.5 grains maximum arena; check the manual as it could be a bit more or less. It is still stout enough - you did not say what the purpose of your load is - target shooting, hunting, etc... But if you only want one load for all the guns, you have to load to the weakest action. I shoot Uberti Henry with Black Powder only - reduced charges with filler, and full power loads. I have on occasion loaded up with Unique, 6.5 grains under a 205 grain RNFP Pb hard cast boolit sized .429. Won't chamber in .430. Shoots fine - and will definitely get your attention. Can't speak to 4759 for the 44-40, but am experimenting with Trail Boss, which is proving to be quite fine in the 44-40 as well.

[dgslyr]

As this loads will be used in short and long guns, and I DO NOT like weak loads, which route should I go?

;-)

If you try to use the old High Velocity loads for 92 Winchesters the brass will last about 3 shots and then seperate.You will
bend the toogle link with level 2 loads in the Lyman books.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
First you want to know what are the throats diameters of those rifles. Start putting too small diameter boolits in those chambers and you will get a good introduction of lead mining 101.
The boolit is a piston first. It must seal the pressure to the rear. Too small a boolit will let hot pressurised gas flow by the bullet base. Not good.
Solution.. do the homework first before the party. Always know the diameter of the throat area. Find out what is the fattest Boolit you can chamber with out pounding on the lever of course. Lead will easily squeeze down in a steel barrel. Record this info into your shooting log on that firearm so you will not forget.
High speed loads... Get a model 92 something in 44 mag. The 44/40 in an 1866 design system was not designed for high pressures. It was designed when 3F Black powder was the hottest thing sane people were going to load. Think 15000 PSI. Many loaded 2F so maybe 13000 PSI. Your loads are going to hit what 30000 PSI and more. A model 92 Winchester will take that abuse. A toggle link system no matter what it is made of today still holds together by 3 thin round pins that have little bearing surface. The toggles mate on curved surfaces that at best have little metal in contact at the moment of highest pressure.
You can shoot high pressure rounds in the toggle system. But do not expect to have a tight chambering rifle very long.
Mike in Peru

[Grapeshot]

I've loaded for the .44WCF for the past 16 years. I prefer using black powder or one of the substitutes, especially 777 if I want a hot smokey load.. However, I wouldn't go past 8.5 grains of Unique in my '73 or '66. I'd go with a good reloading manual like Lyman's or Speer's

[veeman]

I shoot 4.5g of Trail Boss with 200g LFN size .428. Tack drivers in both Colt's, both Uberti Remington 75's, Rossi 92, and Uberti 66.

[fouronesix]

I have several .44-40´s, one Uberti Henry, one Win 94, one Uberti 7 1/2" Rem 1875 clone.

As this loads will be used in short and long guns, and I DO NOT like weak loads, which route should I go?



The laundry list of questions relating to the mentioned firearms seems to be contradictory. If you don't like weak loads then why the 44-40 and why have some weak actions mixed in? Seems like you should load to the weakest action in the line up. As others have mentioned, consult a reloading manual that shows data for the lower pressure/BP similar ballistics.

[Armand]

Hello!

I want a load for all my Guns. I don´t want it to be weak, but I want to enjoy my guns for long ...

I understand about the two load levels, and I have several Reloading manuals, including some Lyman´s, including one which is ring bound and has some pretty stout loads for the .44-40!

I really lke to go for a walk in our hunting area with Lever actions, don´t want to shoot big things, but small Roe Deer or smaller Javelinas, 40 kg or so.

I wanted to know about your "Pet loads", which work.

I have heard about 8 grs Unique, which is hot in modern Manuals, and declared completely safe in elders ... even for 73´s.

Hermann

[runfiverun]

the other way to deal with it is to segregate loads for each rifle.
this means you keep the fired brass separate,and only load it for each rifle.
the 44-40 is a 44-40 in those guns.
the rifles themselves won't handle the pressures.

i have a rossi 44-40 and load it to medium loads.
if i want more i could get it in this rifle, or i could just use my 44 mag levergun.

[Reverend Al]

I think it's an oxymoron to have one "hi performance" load for a variety of guns, especially when that group of guns includes Henry, '66, or '73 clones in the mix. You need to load low performance with those weak toggle actions (I used to load between 6.5 and 7.5 grains of Unique in my old, original '73 when I had it) and if you want higher pressure / higher performance loads for other stronger action guns then religiously mark the cases and segregate them (I use coloured felt marker on the case heads of the brass to keep different loads separate in the same calibre). I had a friend that used to hunt our local Columbia Blacktails with an old '92 Winchester SRC and he loaded enough 2400 behind a 200 grain "j word" soft point to make Elmer Keith wince! Make sure you keep your loads well marked and carefully separated if you're going the multi-load route or you'll be risking your eyesight and your good looks ... JMHO ...

[Armand]

I think it's an oxymoron to have one "hi performance" load for a variety of guns, especially when that group of guns includes Henry, '66, or '73 clones in the mix. You need to load low performance with those weak toggle actions (I used to load between 6.5 and 7.5 grains of Unique in my old, original '73 when I had it) and if you want higher pressure / higher performance loads for other stronger action guns then religiously mark the cases and segregate them (I use coloured felt marker on the case heads of the brass to keep different loads separate in the same calibre). I had a friend that used to hunt our local Columbia Blacktails with an old '92 Winchester SRC and he loaded enough 2400 behind a 200 grain "j word" soft point to make Elmer Keith wince! Make sure you keep your loads well marked and carefully separated if you're going the multi-load route or you'll be risking your eyesight and your good looks ... JMHO ...

:-)))

No, I want only "MAX" ´73 loads ... which should fit Uberti SA´s just fine ...

so, 200 to 205 grs LFN with 7,5 grs Uni max?

Hermann

[fouronesix]

Get a Lyman Reloading Handbook. The more current editions have the type data you request.

[Larry Gibson]

Lyman lists 8.6 gr Unique for the 200 gr cast in Cat I guns (M73s). Suggest starting at 6.8 gr and working up.

Larry Gibson

[cajun shooter]

The new Uberti 73 rifles will handle the 8-9 grain Unique loads all day long if you choose to shoot them. My 73 44WCF has a correct for the caliber .427 bore and I fire .429 cast bullets loaded with full cases of 2 and 3 F with no problem. BP burns at much lower PSI than the smokeless rounds.
I have cases that have been loaded no less than 10 times and are still going.
If you wish to make a Magnum out of the 44WCF then buy yourself a Winchester 92 clone and fire away as it will handle the loads.
The 73 and 66 rifles are much faster to shoot but the 92 far out does them in strength.
On the other hand if you are looking for 44 magnum performance, then why not start with it rather than the 44 WCF which was designed for the 1873 when it was released to the public

[jim 44-40]

63117I use .429 cast in my Winchester Trails End,but only Winchester brass.Any other brass is to thick at case mouth and the will not chamber. I have loaded 180gr up to 250gr and they all shot great. If you can use bullet with crimp groove.Unless your loading with black powder,which will keep bullet from seating deeper when fired.Find good data from older lyman manual or Handloader Mag's

[Armand]

Thanks to all!

Will start low, and for sure stop under 8,5 grs Unique.

If I need more, I also have a 94 and a Browning 92 in .44 Mag ... so I want "authentic" .44-40 loads instead of "anemic", but I have 44 Mag rifles, if I want Magnum Power.

Hermann

[hightime]

Armand, Search for posts by KirkD. With his loads, I'm getting great accuracy from my Uberti Henry, the one in my avatar.

Owen

[BCRider]

The toggle action rifles were made for black powder loads. Why not try loading up a few such rounds just to see what the performance and recoil is like. Then you'll have a good yardstick on how strongly you can load with Unique or other smokeless powders.

If you go this route keep in mind that the smokeless tends to peak the pressure somewhat higher even though the overall recoil impulse will be about the same as with black powder. So the wise course for the rifles would be to try a few BP loads to get the feel then load up the smokeless to just under the APPARENT recoil felt with the BP loads. That way you're sure of not pushing on the toggles and pins with more force than they were originally intended to withstand.

Having said all this I shoot Frontiersman now and then in CAS events. My 1858 replicas shooting about a 160gn lead ball pushed by 30gns of black isn't what I consider weak. It's got a recoil that is much like a full bore .38Spl. So a 200 to 240gn bullet pushed by 40gns of black, or the equivalent pressure load in smokeless, isn't going to be what I'd call anemic. Oh sure, it's no .44Mag. But I'm pretty sure you're not looking for THAT sort of power. I imagine that you simply don't want to be shooting the typical CAS mouse toot loads that so many seem to use.

Shooting Frontiersman also means I need to load up smokey loads for my rifle and shotgun. The rounds I loaded are 21.5'ish gns of Pyrodex "P" behind a 130gn cast bullet. I slipped a few into my cartridge revolver and was pretty impressed at the power of them. They are not wussy loads. More like full house .38Spl or maybe even .38Spl+P loads. So your .44-40 loads with a heavier bullet and more powder will most certainly fit within your goal of avoiding wussy loads.

It also suggests the truth behind the stories about the .44-40 and .45Colt being able to easily take down a horse.

[KirkD]

My pet load for the 44-40 is 17.7 grains of 5744 plus a tuft of cotton filler under a 200 grain GC bullet from an Accurate Mould, sized to .431 for my original Winchester Model 1873. The velocity is 1,305 fps, which matches the original black powder ballistics. I would have no difficulty using this load for 200 pound White Tail Deer. In fact, I plan to do so this fall. It gives me five shot groups of around 2 & 11/16" at 100 yards and around 5" at 200 yards. Occasionally, I get better depending upon how much coffee a drank and what the wind is. I got a three shot group of 1 & 3/8" at 100 yards and a four-shot group of 1 & 13/16" at 200 yards, but those are on good days when I am clothed and in my right mind (so to speak), and with a good night's sleep behind me and my eyeballs aren't watering as bad as usual.

[Armand]

My 1858 replicas shooting about a 160gn lead ball pushed by 30gns of black isn't what I consider weak. It's got a recoil that is much like a full bore .38Spl. So a 200 to 240gn bullet pushed by 40gns of black, or the equivalent pressure load in smokeless, isn't going to be what I'd call anemic. Oh sure, it's no .44Mag. But I'm pretty sure you're not looking for THAT sort of power. I imagine that you simply don't want to be shooting the typical CAS mouse toot loads that so many seem to use.

It also suggests the truth behind the stories about the .44-40 and .45Colt being able to easily take down a horse.

Yup - that´s the idea for my load development.

Just the real, full .44-40, NOT CAS.

By the way, anybody knows how the Colt Lightning locks up?

I´ve heard, it´s weaker than the 92, but is it weaker than the 73?

Hermann

[ironhead7544]

There is a lot of info on the net for the 44/40. Unique seems to be a favorite. 2400 is also good. The original load was about a 205 gr bullet at 1400 fps from a 24 inch barrel.

[canyon-ghost]

Lee still makes the 200 grain RF mold in 44. I'm using it in 44 special. 7.4 grains of Unique has a lot of gusto out to 100 meters (hits pretty hard out there too). The newer 44 special loads show 7.0 to 8.0 grains of Unique, just as a comparison.

Good Luck,
Ron

[Mr Peabody]

I'm using 23.5gr's of Reloader 7 and the Lee 200gt RNFP. In my Rossi carbine they clock 1250fps. They're low enough pressure for a handgun, and shoot very nicely. I don't like the CAS loads either.