44 Mag 310 grn bullet

[GR Pitts]

I have a question regarding thr 44 Mag 310 grain bullet and being brand new to this forum I hope someone can give me some insight. I just recently cast up some of the 310 grain bullets using Lee mold C430-310-RF and looking at the Lyman reloading data in their 4th edition Cast Bullet Handbook, I'm a bit confused. Page 273 lists max OAL for 44 mag as 1.61 inches. The specific load data on page 275 for the 310 grain bullet shows an OAL of 1.71 inches.

I am using 15.9 grains of 2400 powder in a S&W 629, which shows to be mid range for that bullet. My seating depth works to 1.595, which shows to be a bit less than the 1.61. Since the specific data shows 1.71, I'm a bit concerned over cup pressure as I have not fired this specific load.

If anyone can help me by giving me a bit more information regarding what appears to be a contradiction in the reloading data, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thanks!

[Hickory]

If the 1.71" will fit your gun don't worry about it.
Keep your loads under maximum in a S&W 29/629.
Over all length are set so that the cartridge will fit
every gun, and every magazine without issue.

[GR Pitts]

Thanks so much for the quick response. Rarely do I ever shoot max loads in any gun, and never with cast bullets.
I was just a bit concerned about pressures with the slightly increased seating depth.

Thanks again.

[44man]

I seat to fit the cylinder best, usually the lower crimp groove. Then I just work the load for the best accuracy and no more.
I see you have a 629 so there is one thing to watch for with a heavy boolit. That is recoil. If the gun is enhanced it should be OK but the cylinder unlocking pin in the center of the cylinder can get peened at the front end until you can't open the cylinder.
The cylinder stop might unlock and turn the cylinder backwards from torque so the next pull of the trigger is a click.
The gun will take all normal pressures but does not like recoil inertia on those few parts.
S&W has done some work on them by making the pin harder and using a stronger cylinder stop spring.
You will know if the thumb piece gets hard to push to open the cylinder whether it is the enhanced model or not. Stop and get a new pin and cylinder stop spring from S&W. Explain the problem so you get the right parts.
The boolit is a fantastic one.

[GR Pitts]

Thanks for the heads up. Have had the pistol some 30 years so its an older gun. Probably had less than 1000 rounds through it, many higher power copper jacketed & so far no issues. To be perfectly honest, I much prefer reduced loads so I have faster recovery time. So you feel that shooting this heavier bullet will result in the issue you mention, as a matter of when, not if?

[44man]

Keep recoil down and the gun is fine. But you might not get the best accuracy from the heavy boolit shot slow. The 310 will run best at about 1300+ fps. This is where recoil impulse comes in but it can be fixed.
240 to 265 gr bullets/boolits at full power will not cause any problems. A few guns even with those would have the cylinder unlock but it is just the cylinder stop spring. A few were too weak. Holding the gun tighter to keep it from coming back fast can also prevent a problem.
It is a wonderful gun once you understand it. Never wimp wrist the gun.

[GR Pitts]

Thanks for your help. Loaded up 20 rounds to see how it does. Will go from there & let you know.

[44man]

Great, let us know how it goes.

[a.squibload]

44man, do you know if this problem is exclusive to 629s? I have an early `80s 29,
maybe had a couple hundred rounds through it, maybe 10 factory loads ever.
No problems noticed, just wonder if I should watch for that or get some spare parts
just in case. Have shot a 315 through it but never hot loads, barrel is real short!

[dilly]

It is amazing that I was dealing with this exact same dilemma on the exact same boolit with the same manual today. However my redhawk's cylinder is gigantic so I don't have any concern with it fitting.

[reloader28]

I played around with the 1.71 and 1.61 seating depths with my Lee 310 and 2400.
According to my chrono, I had to have 2gr more powder when it was seated long to get the same speed as the shorter OAL.

In other words, 16.5gr/1050fps with 1.61 OAL equaled 18.5gr/1050fps with 1.71 OAL.
This was MY results and I will say that pistol has a sizable gap between the barrel and cylinder. I'm getting it fixed shortly, but you get the jist of it anyway. I havent tried the comparison in my new gun.

[leadman]

I used to shoot that boolit alot in my Super blackhawk with 24grs of WC680. Velocity was only about 1,100 fps but accuracy was outstanding. I put one of these broadside thru and elk with no problem.

[44man]

44man, do you know if this problem is exclusive to 629s? I have an early `80s 29,
maybe had a couple hundred rounds through it, maybe 10 factory loads ever.
No problems noticed, just wonder if I should watch for that or get some spare parts
just in case. Have shot a 315 through it but never hot loads, barrel is real short!
The X frame in .500 S&W has had the cylinder unlock, rotate backwards to a live round and double.
It is still just that little spring.
A weak hammer spring will let hammer bounce go to almost full cock and since the trigger is being held back, it will drop to fire a round if it gets under the hammer.
Even S&W claimed it was a double pull of the trigger but we have video of the cylinder rotating backwards from torque when the cylinder stop unlocked from inertia and a weak spring. Many S&W guns of all kinds will even show a double strike on a primer from hammer bounce and an unlocked cylinder.
We have a picture of a SA hammer almost all the way back too but the cylinder will not unlock.
Hammer bounce is from internal case pressure against the primer and firing pin. EVERY gun does it, even a bolt rifle. The strength of the hammer or firing pin spring will limit it.
Ruger DA's will not unlock because the geometry of the cylinder stop is not subject to inertia.
I had a S&W 29 here that showed double primer strikes and did not have a spring. I put a tiny lock tumbler spring inside the cylinder stop spring and it was fixed.
It is not something to get upset over, it is an easy fix.
Some guys harden the end of the cylinder unlocking pin but that scares me. It can break unless the whole pin is hardened and tempered.
S&W is a fine gun and CAN shoot heavy boolits because it is only two parts that can be fixed. Many from the factory will not see the problem.

[GR Pitts]

That's interesting. Lyman manual shows max load at 16.6 grns of 2400 so if you had no issues then I feel comfortable on the seating depth issue.

[GR Pitts]

Shot the 310 grain bullet today loaded with 15.9 grains of 2400. I'm sold. loved it!