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rr4406pak
07-23-2007, 10:24 PM
First casting post fellow casters! Need advice:
Melted up my first batch of wheel weights in a new LEE 20lb Pro furnace. Dropped in only three 1lb ingots with about a 3.5" length of 95%/5% (Tin/Silver) 1/16" thick wire for flux to test things out and see how it'd go. Used the LEE 2-Cavity 45ACP 230gr Bullet Mold TL452-230-2R (this is the one with the fine lube canelures) which claim you can just lube the bullets with LEE Alox bullet lube and load em' up. No sizing required (states they drop at .452).
The LEE bottom pour furnace worked perfect and bullets dropped right out of the mold with ease.

QUESTION #1: Even though it says I do not need to size. Are these really safe to shoot without sizing?

QUESTION #2: The bullets don't seem to come out shiny enough. Some bullets look like the have small wrinkles or lines in them. Does this mean the lead was too hot? Too cold? Maybe the mold was too cold?

QUESTION #3: Is it safe to shoot the bullets with the wrinkles? The wrinkles are extremely shallow. Only shooting these for target at 750-800fps.

Thanks guys!

AZ-Stew
07-23-2007, 11:24 PM
Measure un-lubed bullets with a micrometer or caliper. If they actually are .451-.453, go ahead and lube them up and load them. Any larger, they'll need some sizing. Tools are available.

Don't worry about "shiny", as it varies with alloy and casting temperature. DO worry about complete fill-out, especially at the base corner of the bullet. Any flaws here, discard (remelt) the bullet. Wrinkles, voids, pits, gaps, or any other flaw that will allow gas to seep past the base and up along the sides of the bullet will cause leading and inaccuracy.

It is safe to shoot bullets with wrinkles (see above paragraph for caveats), but there is no reason not to get completely filled-out bullets. By adjusting your melt temperature and casting speed you will be able to get consistent results. Also, be sure to get the mould cavities CLEAN before casting. Lee recommends smoking their moulds, but I haven't found this to be an absolute necessity as long as the mould cavities are clean. I scrub mine with a fingernail brush (like you use to clean car grease from under your fingernails after doing a lube/oil change) and dishwashing soap. This will remove all of Lee's cutting lube from the mould. Ya gotta scrub them a bit, though. When finished, BE SURE TO GET ALL PARTS OF THE MOULD COMPLETELY DRY BEFORE CASTING!!!! Any moisture in the mould will vaporize instantly on your next cast, spraying moulten lead all over everything within a six foot or more radius. Since your arms aren't that long, guess who ends up wearing a good portion of it?

Wrinkled bullets are a sign of alloy or mould too cool, or a contaminated mould (clean per above). Frosty bullets are a sign of alloy and mould too hot. Shiny or very slightly frosted (evenly) bullets that are completely filled out are a sign that your casting temperature and casting rate (rythm) are just right.

Regards,

Stew

KYCaster
07-23-2007, 11:33 PM
Welcome to the assylum RR (is it OK if I call you RR?) Let me see of I can help out a little bit.

#1 Lube a couple of boolits just as you intend to shoot them and make up some dummy rounds. If they will chamber without resistance then they will be safe to shoot. The only concern will be if they are too big in diameter for your chamber. (That's not likely unless your gun has a very tight chamber...or the mold throws a boolit that's way oversize.)

#2 Some of the guys here like their bullets shiney and some like them a little frosty. Personally, I don't really care as long as the details of the mold are completely filled out....sharp corners on the base and lube grooves well defined.
The wrinkles could be caused by low alloy temp., low mold temp. or a dirty mold contaminated with oil...or a combination of all three.
Read the thread titled [U]Sure Fire Leementing Techniques[U] in the Molds, Maintance and Design forum to learn how to prep the Lee molds.

#3 Safe to shoot?.....Sure, there's nothing wrong with shooting ugly boolits. They may not perform as well as the perfect ones, but you won't know till you try.

When you have more questions, just ask, there are some very knowledgable folks here, always willing to help a new guy.

Enjoy
Jerry

trickyasafox
07-24-2007, 12:29 AM
a fellow member here was kind enough to tell me how to fix the wrinkled bullet problem i was having in a pm. let me cut and paste it for you:

I boil all my aluminum molds before I even try to cast with them. Some will tell you I am full of it, but I know the results I get when I boil in tide first.....just be careful with the sprue screw on lee 6 holers, it is far better to do the 6 holers when new, as that bolt can get pissy once it has been there for awhile, and the main reason I drill and tap a 8X32 setscrew into the side of the block where it will contact the bolt, that way I do not have to rely on lees lack of forsight. Why anyone would build a mold without a setscrew on the sprue bolt is beyond me...remember to be careful when lubing the sprue hinge bolt and the lign up pins that you do not re-introduce wax/oil into the cavities, just a little in the cavities can screw you over pretty bad...

..steel molds just get a toothbrush and several baths with brake cleaner, each and everytime I break them out of the package and out of storage, steel does not have the pores that lees cheap aluminum does.....I still boil NEI aluminum molds and such, but may not be AS NECCESSARY as a lee mold, which is is mandatory for a boil in this joint.....

again this is not something i came up with but rather another member here. Let me just say this though: IT WORKS GREAT! i boiled a fussy mold in a mixture of borax and water for about 15 minutes scrubbing halfway through and the mold dropped perfect after that.

rr4406pak
07-24-2007, 11:26 AM
Wow! Thanks for all the great advice. It really helps me out.

I did not clean the LEE mold before I started. :( I bet that's half the problem. The other half was that it was not up to temperature.

QUESTION #4: Can I clean the LEE mold with a degreaser instead of soap & water? If not, why?

QUESTION #5: Is the 95/5 Silver/Tin wire I am using a good choice? Or is the Antimony/Tin wire better? Is the primary reason for adding these elements to the alloy is to increase the hardness? or does it just help the lead to fill out the mold better?:???:

AZ-Stew
07-25-2007, 03:46 PM
You can use a degreaser, as long as it doesn't leave a residue in the mould. You probably won't know whether there's a residue until you try unsuccessfully for a long time to cast good bullets and get nothing but "prunes". It's easier to scrub them with soap or, as others have suggested, boil them in a soap solution, then thoroughly rinse them with water. I blow mine dry with my compressor afterward. No residue.

Either solder will work, but there's little value in using the one containing silver. I'd guess it's a bit more expensive than the tin/antimony solder. Considering the percentages involved, the only practical gain is the amount of tin added. Neither the silver or the antimony will have any practical effect on bullet hardness in such low quantities.

Tin adds very little hardness to wheel weight alloy. It does improve castability a bit. If you want to increase hardness, the most practical means is to add linotype to your wheel weights. Linotype contains a higher percentage of antimony than your tin/antimony solder and also contains a reasonable percentage of tin. The antimony is what will increase the alloy hardness. If you look on e-bay, you can find linotype for reasonable prices, even considering shipping. Compare it to the cost of your solder and you'll quickly realize the value.

See this web site for details on bullet alloys:
http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

You'll see from the numbers how linotype is a more practical solution for hardening alloys than trying to so it with solder.

Additionally, "hard" alloy isn't necessarily the solution to all problems when casting bullets. In reality, your bullets should only be hard enough to do the job. In many cases, a lead/tin alloy (20L/1T) by weight is plenty hard. Depends on velocity. Matching the diameter of your bullets to your firearm is as important or more important than bullet hardness. For your tumble lube bullets you can adjust your as-cast diameter by adjusting alloy composition. If this does not give you the size you need, you may have to resort to sizing the bullets.

Anyway, visit the URL listed above and study it. Lotsa good info there to fill the gaps in this short response.

Regards,

Stew

fido
07-25-2007, 08:11 PM
What are you using for lead?
Wheel weights?
Is your mould new?

I too have just started casting for the 45. I have cast for the 44 lots.
I use WW with nothing else.

The trick is to have your mould as clean as you can get it and hot.
Any oil will flash off as the led fills it and will leave imperfections in the resulting bullet.

Degreaser? I have wanted to test brake cleen. Anything that leavs no residue will work.
I have herd about smoking a mould but I haven't had the need as of yet.
Keep turning up your pot till you get some frosting on the bullets. Then turn down a bit at a time till its gone. With my bottom pour I cant get it cool enough or the spout starts to freeze. I always have some frosting, and I don't mind.
You can dip a corner of the mould in the molten lead to pre heat it. That will eliminate quite afew of the first duds as the mould is coming up to temp.
Hope I gave some help.
Stephen

rr4406pak
07-26-2007, 10:28 AM
Fido,

To answer your questions:
What are you using for lead?
I am using straight wheel weights and adding a small length of 95/5 Tin/Silver wire.

Is your mold new?
Yep, brand new. Just smoked it and started casting. Bullets dropped out perfect.

One problem with the bullets though is they I weighed them at 220-222grains!
This is supposed to be a 230grain weight mold. What the heck is going on here???

Thanks again for the advice! That does help!:-D

PS: Does anyone have a picture of their bullets loaded in brass from this LEE mold. When I load these up the bullet almost looks lost in there! There is a sharp shoulder to the ogive of this bullet which almost makes it look like a semi-wadcutter.:confused:

MtGun44
07-26-2007, 01:48 PM
Different lead alloys will cast out to different weights.
No big deal really, it is usually a pretty small difference,
and your loading data will be fine for a small weight
variation.

Bill

TAWILDCATT
07-26-2007, 03:07 PM
first read the directions IT SAYS SMOKE THE MOLD.(2)fill the pot or you MAY burn it out 3 lbs is not enough to cover the elements.45 pistols do not use high pressure
so you dont have a worry about safety of the lead bullets.use straight WW.hard bullets are for rifle at high vel.get abook like ABC =lymans cast bullet manual is good also a read of it should answere all the questions you might ask.
good luck :coffee: :Fire: :coffee:

rr4406pak
07-26-2007, 03:21 PM
Thanks TAWILDCATT,

Yep, I smoked the mold.
Good tip about filling the pot. Didn't realize I could burn the pot without enough lead in there.
I'll see if I can pick up the Lyman's book on casting. This forum is a super excellent resource as well.

I'm going to try loading up the bullets I casted and shoot them tomorrow (using LEE Alox tumble lube) to see how they do out of my COLT MKIV Stainless Government Model. I'm going to try 16 of them as I dropped them out of the mold. And the other 16 I put through a LEE .452 sizer to see if that makes any bit of difference.

I will post what happens.[smilie=s:

Cloudpeak
07-26-2007, 04:18 PM
I've used 3 Lee, 6 cavity molds. One 40 cal and two 45. I found on any given day, bullet diameters can vary between molds and from cavity to cavity due to alloy combination and pot temperature. If you don't happen to get a mold fully closed (like maybe a small bit of lead that keeps the mold halves from closing) you can have oversized bullets. Anyway, I like to push them all through the Lee push through sizer for uniformity's sake. An oversized bullet could lead to pressure increases or chambering problems. Anyway, that's how I looked at the situation.

Cloudpeak

Black Wolf
07-27-2007, 07:56 AM
Fido,

To answer your questions:
What are you using for lead?
I am using straight wheel weights and adding a small length of 95/5 Tin/Silver wire.

Is your mold new?
Yep, brand new. Just smoked it and started casting. Bullets dropped out perfect.

One problem with the bullets though is they I weighed them at 220-222grains!
This is supposed to be a 230grain weight mold. What the heck is going on here???

Thanks again for the advice! That does help!:-D

PS: Does anyone have a picture of their bullets loaded in brass from this LEE mold. When I load these up the bullet almost looks lost in there! There is a sharp shoulder to the ogive of this bullet which almost makes it look like a semi-wadcutter.:confused:

I just started casting with the same mould and my .45 acp came out 220 grains as well. I load them to the 230 grain specs regardless. I believe it truly depends on the mix of alloy that you are using. I decided to size my bullets to .452 because, 1) I bought the sizing die and 2) it makes for a more consistent bullet size. Mine were coming out around .4525 - .4535.

As far as seating depth, and the photo of the bullets. Well, I've done it 2 ways, both worked. I seated my bullet to where the lip, just below the cone, is flush with the case mouth. I've also done it to where the lip is just slightly above, or showing, above the case mouth - very slightly. Both worked. I also thought that the bullet looked, well small, compared to factory bullets. I'd just make sure that you seat them so as you don't exceed the O.A.L., the bullet feeds from the mag ok, and not to push them to the point that any part of the bullet cone (the rounded part) is below the case mouth as it will increase the pressure.