Cheaper Than Dirt Gouging!

[W.R.Buchanan]

I have a bit of a problem with CTD!

It seems that they are trying to take advantage of the current shortages in all things gun related by dramatically increasing prices.

Sunday 2-3-13 Magpul 30 round magazines $99.95 Should be $15!

Today not listed on the site.

It is one thing for an individual to price gouge, many people have been buying up these mags and hoarding them in order to make some money.

It is entirely different for a large company to do it. That's just plain RUDE!

They also have some weird Idea that they can't ship AR parts to California. When they sent me the list of things not allowed it looked like they had gone to the DOJ's site and downloaded all of the Charistic pieces of "Assault Weapons" and put them on the banned list. There are no such restrictions as the law that was passed several years ago was defeated in a court challenge as interferring with interstate commmerce.

CTD never went back and removed the restrictions from their site.

If they can't ship to CA then why can Midway and Brownells ship the exact same parts with no problems whatsoever?

The management of this company located in Texas has got some kind of problem with CA and several other states as well, and is trying to make a statement.

Time for a Boycott of this outfit! And I am leading on this one.

I refuse to buy anything more from Cheaper Than Dirt no matter how small the item, or how cheap the dirt! :Fire:

I hate people who do business like this and I hope some of you will be just as offended as I am about thier policies and price gouging.

Now is the time for all gun owners to be sticking together and the people who supply us need to be on board as well. Maybe a Boycott from Castboolits.com's membership will bring them around.

Randy

[WILCO]

It's economics 101 Randy. Supply and demand. Vote with your wallet. It's nothing personal. God forbid if you're ever in their shoes.

[Dan Cash]

I hate the term price gouging. Were this or any other outfit to have food stuffs and seek exorbitant prices for them when said food stuffs were not available any where else, you might have a case. Considering that Cheapeer Than Dirt sells only optional equipment, not needed for the preservation of life, you are not forced to buy from them. It is their stuff; they can charge what ever they want. If the price offends you, shop elsewhere or improvise.

[Freischütz]

Cheaper Than Dirt did the same thing during the last shortage. You shouldn't be surprised.

[JeffinNZ]

I agree with Wilco but doesn't this make a mockery of the business name?

[cloakndagger]

I stopped doing business with them when they caved to the libs in jan. No suprise here

[plainsman456]

I have done no more with them since they took down the ar stuff,after CT.

Sent them an e-mail to that effect.

And i won't send anyone there as well.

[bart55]

ditto plalinsman

[Kraschenbirn]

Received CTD's new hardcopy catalogue this afternoon...all ammo/mags have blanks where prices should be with a note to see their website for pricing/availability. Thumbed a little further and it looks like about everything (parts, accessories, mags, etc.) for ARs has doubled or tripled in price. Tossed catalogue into recycle bin.

Bill

[jlm223]

I had them remove me from their e-mail list, I will not do business with them ever again.

[captaint]

If you don't contact them and tell them how you feel, they'll never know. These companies need to know people ARE paying attention. If we don't appreciate their business practices, we should tell them so. Mike

[fredj338]

Look guys, it's not gouging, it's capitalism. You do not NEED what they are selling, they have it, you just want it, the rpice is whatever someone will pay. Gouging is taking advantage of a situation & selling something you must have. Kind of what the oil companies do with gas. If I had a bunch of 30rd Magpuls, I would sell them for that as well.

[Beau Cassidy]

Never done business with them. Never will.

[462]

Capitalism always works. If you don't like the price, shop elsewhere or don't buy the item. The buyer always dictates an item's final selling price, not the seller.

I get their catalogues, but have never bought from them.

[huntrick64]

Hey, I got an idea! We need the gubment to make sure that nobody price gouges us. They could make CTD sell all of their mags for $15 each. Now once they do that, they will also have to control supply by making sure nobody can own more than one. Uhhh, on second thought, let's keep capitalism. It's not the only food available for your family, it's some extra magazines!

[jonas302]

I have never found there prices to be competitive but just like we can boycott them can't blame them for boycotting ca

[HangFireW8]

They have the right to set whatever prices they want... and set whatever policies about states they sell to that they want... and I have the right to buy anywhere I want. For many years now that means not buying anything from CTD. I'll reconsider if they do.

Now, That's Capitalism.

HF

[MtGun44]

LOL!

Supply and demand always rule. "Price gouging" is a hiliariously nonsensical concept. If you do
not like the price, do not buy. A seller that does not get the most he can for his goods is
a pretty strange person.

I am not pleased with prices now, and actively look for lowest prices available, always. I have
seen these shortages and price jumps many times in the past, so when prices are normal or
low, I stock up so I do not have to buy when prices are high.

Getting all excited about price increases during shortages is like getting mad at the sun for
making it hot in July. Feel free to rage at the "injustice" of it all, but the sun will not change,
nor will the laws of economics.

I am currently looking for a few pieces of gun hardware that are apparently in high
demand and short supply. I am looking diligently for reasonable prices, but will
either pay the high prices or decide that I really don't need the items right now.

Bill

[JeffinNZ]

As usual, young William (Bill/MtGun44) is the voice of reason.

[mnimrod45]

I guess I will be repeating what has already been said. I have an issue with Cheaper Than Dirt but it's not because they are selling Pmags for $100. I am bothered that they caved and stopped selling the "evil" guns that the left wanted them to. I understand that this is their decision and it was was a business decision but it disgusts me nonetheless.

As for selling the mags for a huge mark up, I have been hearing this on many forums lately. It is their right, if you don't like it, don't buy it, if people don't buy for that price then they will either lower their price or go out of business, that simple. I bought 100 GI mags the day of the shooting as I knew this would happen, I am keeping half and selling half to co-workers for what I paid. I thought about (wish I would have) buying 300 Pmags even though I don't personally like them just to sell at a small mark up. I didn't but don't think there would have been anything wrong with it if I did.

Lets say you bough a Colt Python for $400 20 years ago or a Winchester 71 for the same price. Would you sell them to me for that price now? Didn't thinks so, some things go up in value over 20 years, some do overnight. Capitalism my friends.

I don't mean to offend anyone and hope I didn't, just my take on things. I have been reading this forum for years and just now joined as I hope to finally start casting my own soon. I shoot many cast bullets and am tired of buying them so will have a lot of questions I'm sure when I finally do get started.

mnimrod45

[Lloyd Smale]

keep this in mind. the local (small) gunshop had a case of magpuls sitting on a table with a sign that said 49bucks. He saw me shake my head and felt he owed me an explanation. He said he has sold 15 ars in the last few weeks and everyone wanted mags for them and he just couldnt find any at a reasonable price and put his but on the line paying 42 bucks a piece for these. If this scare passes hes going to loose his pants on them. Point of this is who knows what cheaper then dirt had to pay to get those magazines. Im sure its far less then the 100 bucks there charging but again when there gone how much will they have to get for the next batch or how much profit will they loose because they possibly will never be able to sell them again. Bottom line is like was said allready. If you need them that badly buy them if not go elsewhere or go without. I can still remember when back in the early 70s you could get big money for a beat up old mag that barely worked. Could happen again and if it does youll thank your lucky stars you bought them at a 100 bucks. I look at it a bit differnt. If you have owned an ar for a while why would you finally now be looking for a couple magazines. Ar mags were cheaper then mags for about anything and they should have been bought long ago and if you just bought an ar i think you knew what was going on with the prices and went into it with open eyes. I just sold my ar10 for a bit more then twice what i payed for it new. Did i feel guilty? HELL NO! the guy obviously wanted it enough to pay for it and if i want to replace it today im going to have to shell out the same. Had to chuckle a bit. I cant figure out why it was so important to him that hed pay twice retail for a used gun when if it were that important why didnt he buy in last year!! Same goes for magazines. Snooze you loose. Funny thing is i know a couple people that bought ars ar inflated prices during that last scare a couple years back and sold them after it was over for about half what they paid and turned around and bought one again lately at double the price. Personaly i cant wait till this one passes so i can buy them for 500 bucks again!!

[btroj]

Good point Lloyd, we don't know what they paid for them, do we?
It is only a rip off if you pay that much. Obviously those who pay the price feel the item is worth it.
I have plenty of mags, bought them when the price was much better.

[RG1911]

I checked CTD for some 15-round M1 Carbine mags (like I really need more) and saw that the Korean-made ones (good quality) were $39.95. They had been $9.95. The next day they were "down" to $20-something. AIM Surplus was still selling them for $9.95, so I bought a few. They arrived a couple days ago.

There almost always is an alternate source; you just have to find it.

Cheers,,
Richard

[kenyerian]

I've never bought very much from them.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Here's the deal guys. I fully understand the concept of supply and demand. I also understand the difference between profiteering and price gouging. I also understood when I started this thread that I would get the exact responses I have gotten.

In retail business you must sell your products for between 110-120% above what you have in them, in order to make an acceptable profit. I have no problem with this, and in fact I do it everyday. If I can get more then I will, as long as I am not screwing some individual. If it is a large company or the Gubmint fine. They can afford it, and they certainly have the right ot go else where unless they are buying something that belongs to me..

I do have a problem with some one trying to screw an individual by profiteering, simply because they are trying to take advantage of someone elses ignorance or immediate need. I consider this to be NON ETHICAL BUSINESS PRACTICE. Non Ethichal Business Practices have multiplied exponentially since 1/1/2000 when God didn't show up, and it is getting worse everyday.

I fully understand that I don't have to buy from those people. I also understand that others will get screwed.

Do I want the Gubmint to protect me from this,,, Well no! Not at this level.

IN certain cases I DO want them to protect me, like from Wall Street Sharks that deal in things that I need and deliberately run the prices up by controlling the market so they can profit. We see this everyday with no response from anyone that matters. They are being allowed to screw the public.

With CTD it is different. They are raising prices on items that they puchased in bulk at wholesale prices, and are raising prices as their inventory decreases in anticipation of not being able to restock. However they already know they will be able to restock, because this is only a temporary shortaqge on the supply side and supply will catch up as demand dimishes.

To the person who actually pays attention to what is going on, this looks bad. Whereas I could easily justify thier bad behavior as several have done in this thread, I have no intention of doing so, and in fact just the opposite, I am bringing it to as many people's attention as will listen.

Reasonable people just don't like people who try to screw other people for no good reason. Example: Gays against Chic-fil-A, didin't work out to well for the gays did it, and kind of backfired and the company posted record profits due to customer support. The consumer made a choice!

I also have a big problem with CTD not shipping anything I want to my state, especially when the reasons given are complete BS! This is a corporate policy decision that affects me directly and it pisses me off when some one has something I want to buy and they won't sell it to me because of some ******** company policy that is not even valid. No! you can't have it cuz we won't give it to you! Naaah!

Yes, I can chose to shop elsewhere! And I will!

And that is the purpose of this thread in it's entirety.

I am declaring that I will no longer buy from Cheaper Than Dirt. I will also consider not supporting outfits that are sponsored by CTD.

What everyone needs to remember is when this current run is all over, and CTD lowers their prices back down is to,

NOT TO BUY FROM THEM THEN EITHER!

I once had a large Steel supplier try to gouge me on prices and the owner actually told me that I wasn't big enough to do business with them.

I told him "When I do get big enough,,, I WON'T be doing any business with you!"

This same principal applies to CTD as well. You won't sell to me now I won't buy from you later.

I have a very good memory,,, At least I think I do?:roll:

Randy

[NVScouter]

So your suprised they wont sell a 30 round AR15 magazine to a Californian? If your not LE or grandfathered in I dont think they legaly can. I think you need to throw your legistation out on the porch. You guys need black guns more then most.

CTD used to have great prices 15 years ago but they are just average now.

[fredj338]

I have no problem with this, and in fact I do it everyday. If I can get more then I will, as long as I am not screwing some individual. If it is a large company or the Gubmint fine. They can afford it, and they certainly have the right ot go else where unless they are buying something that belongs to me..

I do have a problem with some one trying to screw an individual by profiteering, simply because they are trying to take advantage of someone elses ignorance or immediate need. I consider this to be NON ETHICAL BUSINESS PRACTICE. Non Ethichal Business Practices have multiplied exponentially since 1/1/2000 when God didn't show up, and it is getting worse everyday.

With CTD it is different. They are raising prices on items that they puchased in bulk at wholesale prices, and are raising prices as their inventory decreases in anticipation of not being able to restock. However they already know they will be able to restock, because this is only a temporary shortaqge on the supply side and supply will catch up as demand dimishes.

Reasonable people just don't like people who try to screw other people for no good reason. Example: Gays against Chic-fil-A, didin't work out to well for the gays did it, and kind of backfired and the company posted record profits due to customer support. The consumer made a choice!


Randy
Ok, so you are fine screwing the govt over, which ultimately is the poeple, but not an individual? Hmm.[smilie=1:
Once again, selling something that is a want & not a need, at any price, is not gouging. I don't care if they got the stuff for free, they have a right to sell it for wahtever price some idiot is willing to pay. I am not a fan or hater, if they have something I want & the price is right, I have no issue buying from them. Amazing how much whining is going on over a lack of forsight by many across the country.

[btroj]

But are they pricing them at what they paid or what it will cost to replace inventory?
Do we really know what they paid for what they are selling? Maybe the manufacturer raised the prices too?

Buy from them or not, I don't care. I just won't call it gouging if I don't have all the info in front of me.

[GT27]

I will do without before they receive any orders from me...GT27

[plainsman456]

The thing with me is:

I have no problem with selling anything at what ever price the market will bear.

I just will not be one of them buying.

There are other things involved besides this latest round of ****.

To those who think i am out of line,fine, you can buy all you want from them.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Coincidentially I just received CTD's latest catalog today and low and behold right on the back cover,,,

"Colt Factory USGI "issued" IE: used! AR mags $99.97! I doubt Colt raised their prices to the Gubmint.

The catalog is also about 1/2 the normal thickness.

Here is the letter they sent me regarding their shipping policies.

We are not boycotting your state. In fact we would love to do more business with your state except for there are a lot of restrictions on what can be sent INTO your state from a company.

If an item is restricted in any city within the state we do not ship that item anywhere in the state – this is simply due to the fact that we do not have the procedures in place to ensure that we are in compliance with each city. With certain states – CA being one of them – the laws are vast and can be complicated and in order to remain in compliance this is the decision we had to make.

We can not even ship water filters or empty fuel cans to your state due to state regulations.

CALIFORNIA
- Tracer Ammunition
- .50 BMG Ammunition
- Lock Pick Sets
- Night Vision Scope
- Undetectable Knives
- Cane Swords
- Throwing Stars/Shuriken
- Blow Guns
- Pepper Spray
- Airsoft
- Fuel Cans
- Baton
- Nightsticks
- Billy Clubs
- Blackjacks
- Metal Knuckles
- Slaps
- Assisted-Opening Knives
- Daggers
- Practice or Metal Replica Grenades
- Multi-Burst Trigger Activator
- Magazines over 10 rounds
- Folding Rifle and Semi-Auto Shotgun stocks
- Thumbhole Rifle and Semi-Auto Shotgun stocks
- Telescoping Rifle and Semi-Auto Shotgun stocks
- Protruding Pistol Grip on Rifles and Semi-Auto Shotguns
- Flash Suppressor/Hider and Muzzle Brakes
- Forward pistol grip
- Grenade or Flare Launcher
- Detachable SKS magazines

Beverly Hills, CA
- Ammunition
Colton, CA
- Airguns
- Starter (Blanks) Pistols
Fontana, CA
- Airguns
- Starter (Blanks) Pistols
Los Angeles, CA
- Ammunition
- Holsters
Los Gatos, CA
- Slingshots
Marin County, CA
- Ammunition
Milpitas, CA
- Airguns
Monte Sereno, CA
- Semi-Auto Shotgun mags over 6 rounds
Oakland, CA
- Ammunition
Sacramento, CA
- Ammunition
Salinas, CA
- Slingshots
San Francisco, CA
- Ammunition
- Slingshots
San Jose, CA
- Airguns
San Rafael, CA
- Slingshots
Tiburon, CA
- Ammunition

As I said in the beginning there was aa law passed in CA that made it illegal to ship many items to CA, however that law was overturned and CTD didin't get the memo. Also individual cities CAN NOT ban importation of anything, they are not soverign entities.

They couldn't enforce the law even if it was Constitutional, as indicated by the fact that I have purchased many of the items on thier list from CTD and other suppliers, including a whole 1000 rounds of .223 Ammo that CTD happily shipped right to my front door.

The problem is they don't know what they are doing except when it comes to jacking prices.


Fredj338: As far a screwing the gubmint,,, I'm just getting some of the money back that Obamacare is going to cost me next year, and I'm also just getting back some of the money CA is costing me right now, and believe me,,, They are still way ahead!

Please don't tell me to move either, I would if I could.

Randy

[dragon813gt]

I can't blame them for not shipping items. Sure you might say that it's been over turned and that the cities can't restrict items. But who's to say that won't change tomorrow and CTD will be held legally responsible. The last thing I want to do is defend them. But it's a cover your *** legal move and I can't blame them for that. Blame the people that put those bans in place. If I had a business in their position I would rather lose some sales then potentially be held up in legal battles.

No one is forcing you to buy from them. Most people are of the opinion that they have questionable ethics and don't want to do business with them. Forget they exist and move on with your life.

[onceabull]

Anyone who actually believes that retail business must mark up their merchandise 110-120% to make a profit must either be a dumb as a box of rocks,or think their audience is..Look at the financial reports on any publicly held major retailer for info.lot closer to reality.. Onceabull

[montana_charlie]

In retail business you must sell your products for between 110-120% above what you have in them, in order to make an acceptable profit. I have no problem with this, and in fact I do it everyday.
Do car dealers work on a 110% markup? How about grocery stores.
I read that Exxon makes eight cents profit on a gallon of gas. Do you suppose that, when they are done with the refining, they only have three cents in it?

If I can get more then I will, as long as I am not screwing some individual. If it is a large company or the Gubmint fine. They can afford it,
Maybe I misunderstood what you said.
When it comes time to decide on a markup, does it work best to make that decision based on who can afford to be screwed?

CM

[btroj]

No Charlie, it means screwing an individual is bad, screwing a large group of them is OK. Screwing taxpayers is the best.
As a taxpayer and an individual I am having difficulty seeing a difference.

[Recluse]

Look guys, it's not gouging, it's capitalism. You do not NEED what they are selling, they have it, you just want it, the rpice is whatever someone will pay. Gouging is taking advantage of a situation & selling something you must have. Kind of what the oil companies do with gas. If I had a bunch of 30rd Magpuls, I would sell them for that as well.

I think people are getting confused between gouging and exploiting, although on one hand I think it's just a matter of semantics.

Capitalism works the other way, too, except that when big business gets stuck with a bunch of excess inventory they can't move, they can clearance it out for a loss then deduct that on their taxes and we, the taxpayers, get screwed. So if "we" don't cowtow down and pay the exorbitant prices on merchandise marked up drastically even though the cost didn't go up, we--the consumers--can be accused of being part of the problem.

I've been in the business world for over two decades via marketing and as such, have had many years experience with the big-box retailers. I have little doubt that CTD is exploiting the living hell out of this situation given how large their warehouses are, how they order (and pay) months in advance, etc etc.

However, when you're the only guy in town who has gasoline after a storm and you sell it for five times what you normally do and without your cost having gone up, that is price-gouging plain and simple. One can argue the semantics of "need" all day long but that will not change the definition of gouging.

Most big-box retailers operate on a product or merchandise GP of between 30% and 45% with exceptions going both ways. Some retail pharmacies operate on a GP of between 300% and 1500%, but their costs fluctuate almost as badly depending upon which insurance company or government entity is being backbilled (over simplifying here). But that GP (gross profit) also goes into the overall operations budget which includes the cost of the physical plant, labor, benefits, etc and when all the bills are paid at an operation like say Walmart, the final net upon which actual profits are realized is in the vicinity of 2% to 4%.

Now, if Cheaper Than Dirt has added scores and scores of employees to handle this influx of business, opened new physical stores all over the country, launched multiple new websites and in general has drastically increased their hard costs, then I can see justification, business-wise, for raising the price of existing stock magazines by over 500%.

However, I haven't seen any new CTD showrooms open up in the past month, nor any expanded websites and in fact, the folks I know who have tried to call or order to do business and who have successfully done so state that it took WAY longer for EVERYTHING to happen--so that negates the increased costs due to hiring scores of new workers.

CTD is seizing the moment, and that's fine. Free enterprise. Works both ways. When the moment is over, I hope the SOBs go out of business. Price exploitation is one thing. Caving INSTANTLY and without any external pressure on the online ordering of firearms and accessories in an attempt to gain good favor with the government and media is another.

Screw Cheaper Than Dirt. If they'd stuck to just exploiting prices, that would be one thing. But to do that AFTER caving, then re-negging. . . these are not the kinds of business folks we need or want in the gun world.

To hell with them.

:coffee:

[Bulltipper]

Ummm, Well I got a killer Hensoldt Z-24 scope and factory HK mount from them back when there wasn't an imminent threat of firearm confiscation and paid $390. Shop wisely, buy when the price is right. I'm sorry you live in DPRK W.R. Buchanan, I left that mess 4 years ago for a variety of reasons. A lot of dealers don't want to sell to Cali residents because it is such a PITA and they can get in trouble for just sending in something and then getting in a bad spot because somebody wants to make a stink or make a political statement. I know there are good people in Cali, I have friends there. I hope the best for you.

[smokeywolf]

I agree with comments advising, "if you don't like the price, shop elsewhere".

With regard to 462's opinion of, "Capitalism always works", I must respectfully disagree. It only works if the system hasn't been rigged. The free market system did work until the government watchdogs were bought and paid for by the very industries that they are supposed to be watching.

Twenty-something years ago a number of oil companies were taken to court for price fixing. Big oil's battalion of lawyers argued that the oil companies weren't "price fixing". They had formed a "marketing partnership" and one of the functions of that "marketing partnership" was to set pricing levels. How did the court respond? (I'm paraphrasing) Well, in that case go right ahead and "set pricing levels". Reminiscent of "I did not have sex with that woman, Monica Lewinski".
I wonder if that "marketing partnership" was in dire need of a legal consultant just about the time that judge retired.

Insurance companies have banded together and share policy holder information. Before issuing a policy, a company will require the name of your last insurance company. Most, if not all, now require not just claim histories, but a credit check and financial history. All this accumulation and trading of your information is designed to make it much more difficult for you to shop one company against another.

When big business owns the government entities that are responsible for legislating and enforcing the laws designed to force them to adhere to fair business practices, they are no longer inhibited by any rule, law or policy and most importantly they are no longer inhibited or kept in check by competition. Without competition, eventually the free market system becomes just a fantasy.

This is from a recent thread that informed of, and discussed a government raid on a small family dairy business.


Moriningland Dairy, a family business that has been in operation for over 30 years without a single complaint or report of any illness has ceased today. The over two year battle they've had with the Missouri Milk Board ended today with a raid and confiscation of over 250 thousand dollars of inventory seized by The State. As a result of the legal stipulations put on Morningland Dairy which are impossible to comply with they will no longer be able to produce their product.
The real crime they are being persecuted for is producing cheese with raw milk. Whether The State wants to admit it or not that is what their real charge is and that in itself is criminal.
This should be the shot heard 'round the rural world. What has been done to this family is a travesty of justice. Their livelihood has been destroyed. These are good people who ran an honest business. How much more tyranny will we tolerate before we tell The State, Enough!

If we would have had a strong Constitutionally minded Sheriff in Howell County Missouri this would never have been allowed to happen. Sheriff Mike Shannon, where were you? Why didn't you return any calls or emails? Why did you send your deputies to assist in this theft? We would like some answers.

I would bet dollars to doughnuts that the Missouri Milk board was encouraged to aggressively pursue prosecution of this small family business by a much much larger dairy conglomerate.

Without competition, the free market system ceases to function and the consumer and sometimes the small family owned businesses fall victim to a corporate owned government.

I've looked at Cheaper than dirt's prices and have never been all that impressed. As of now I probably won't bother to check their p & a (pricing and availability) anymore.

I believe that during bad economic times, good ethics dictate that a company should be willing to absorb at least some of the hardship in the form of lower profit margins. Consumers should not be forced or even expected to shoulder the entire burden of an economy in collapse.
If a company is unwilling to suffer shrinking profits as the consumer suffers inflated pricing, that company should lose customers; lots of them.

I speak from experience on this, as my wife and I, with our small home-based business are currently fighting competition, USPS shipping charges that were just increased by 50 to 100% and currency devaluations. We have passed on less than half of these additional expenses to our customers.

smokeywolf

[W.R.Buchanan]

Stimulating discussion huh?

Once a BULL: Do you own a business? I do, and it's a one man business.. Everything I spend my profits on is "Overhead." Materials, food, Mortgage, toilet paper.

I lost money for many years until I read and article in Aftermarket Parts Retailer Magazine That explained the numbers, and why the ones quoted were needed to stay in business. I have been in business for 30+ years. I lost money or broke even for the first 10 years.

Sure a large company can operate on a narrow margin. Their cash flow is Millions. My cash flow is hundreds.

I sell a product to 3 major Offroad Retailers. My wholesale price is 110% of what it costs me to produce the product. It costs $18 per unit to produce, and wholesale is $40. The retail price is $65. They make 35%.

If I sold for less it wouldn't be worth doing, as witnessed by the no less than 15 outfits that have tried to knock off my product over the last 15 years and have failed because they tried to undercut me. No one can produce this product for less than I do and make a profit.

Narrower margins only work if volumn is huge.

I know way more about this than you think I do! I've actually been doing it for a long time, which means I have been somewhat successful.

Randy

[Lloyd Smale]

keep in mind there not there to be your freind or to give you a great deal because they like you. They have mags and most dont. Buy them if you want and pass if you dont. Simple as that. Kind of like going shopping for a new car and ******** because a porche cost so much. If you dont like the price buy a ford. Obviously enough people think the porche is worth the price or they would be there to buy. Same with ctd. Obviously some think those mags are worth there asking price or the supply would be much higher then the demand and the price would come down. So its just as much the fault of your fellow shooters as it is ctd.

Bottom line is we had a shortage just a few years ago and we saw what could happen and anyone who says they didnt think this could or would happen again is either lieing or stupid. When the prices came down if you need mags you should have stocked up. If you didnt your going to have to pay just like everyone else that had blinders on. Consider it education. when and if this passes and the prices do come down a guy had better buy what he needs for his guns instead of chrome for the harley or truck because i can guarantee you one thing, if it does pass it will come again and id bet the same people complaing now will complain again.

Another thing i dont understand with this mag **** is why? I cant imagine buying a handgun or rilfe that uses mags and not buying at least 5 the day i buy the gun. What good is an ar15 with one 5 round mag or a handgun with one mag. Heck ive even bought mags before ive bought the gun i want. this same thing goes for powder, primers, brass ect. If you didnt learn last time theres not much hope for you and it doesnt give you the right to slam someone that is smart enough to turn a dollar off of this mess.

Like i said in a previous post I just sold my ar10 for twice what i paid for it. Did i feel guilty? Not on your life. Am i doing the same as ctd? yup. I didnt twist the guys arm. As a matter of fact he about wouldnt leave me alone about it when i was teetering on deciding to part with it or not. I figured it this way. I was smart enough to buy it when the price was low. Should i then sell it for half of what everyone else is getting just because you want it? If i had a classic 1970 chevelle i bought new for 3k should i feel bad about selling it for 50k because thats what the market will bear?

[Willbird]

Look guys, it's not gouging, it's capitalism. You do not NEED what they are selling, they have it, you just want it, the rpice is whatever someone will pay. Gouging is taking advantage of a situation & selling something you must have. Kind of what the oil companies do with gas. If I had a bunch of 30rd Magpuls, I would sell them for that as well.

Well IMHO it IS a different matter if we make a deal today for you to purchase my widget for $99, you "make" the purchase by ordering.

Then the sale price for the widgets I have in stock rises, so I CANCEL you and other customers existing orders, and start selling them to other folks for $299. Those folks you put on a list, you might have to buy from them in the current madness IF you NEED a widget, but when things return to normal they are not in your list of people you buy from.

The price of Pmags has not risen from the mfg to the distro, so if the prices triples between there and the home buyer somebody is cashing in. And the companies who do NOT (like Brownells) will go on my "good guy" list. Buying and selling is all free market, and so is choosing who we buy and sell to and from.

I bought a 45 acp pistol that holds 1/3 of a box of ammo in one magazine in 2007, the old ban had been out 2-3 years, I started buying magazines for it each time I went to Cabelas at $25 or so each. My wife naturally asked "why so many?" I showed her what similar full cap magazines sold for under the previous ban ($99 new in wrap) and her next question was "did you get all they had, can we get more someplace else ?". I stopped when I had 30 of them...sounds like a lot but if a new ban goes into place a fair trade would be 3-4 magazines for 1 LNIB pistol. I told other customers who were buying new high capacity magazines to buy 10-20 magazines and they all looked at me like I was NUTS.

Bill

[W.R.Buchanan]

[QUOTE=Willbird;2047067]Well IMHO it IS a different matter if we make a deal today for you to purchase my widget for $99, you "make" the purchase by ordering.

Then the sale price for the widgets I have in stock rises, so I CANCEL you and other customers existing orders, and start selling them to other folks for $299. Those folks you put on a list, you might have to buy from them in the current madness IF you NEED a widget, but when things return to normal they are not in your list of people you buy from.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. And that is exactly what these guys are doing. And my stance comes from the last half of the last sentence.

when things return to normal they are not in your list of people you buy from.


Randy

[Green Frog]

My current pet peeve is a company who shall remain nameless (but whose initials are Aero Precision!) that is apparently delaying filling prepaid orders placed in November to sell their AR 15 lower receivers directly from the factory at triple the old price. :twisted: They had a reputation as a good quality, affordable receiver, but I don't plan on giving any more of my business to them when things return to normal... in fact, as I search the various websites and forums today :coffeecom it looks like the wave has begun to break now. People are starting to get some things back in stock and prices are even beginning to fall a bit. I never ordered that much from CTD anyway, so they seem like good candidates for a list that also contains AP. Like old Santa Claus, I've got two lists and these guys definitely qualify as "naughty."

Froggie

PS I won't hurt my own interests with a "boycott," but I'll know to look more closely at the dealers... what they are doing now and what their general business practices have been.:coffee:

[montana_charlie]

Then the sale price for the widgets I have in stock rises, so I CANCEL you and other customers existing orders, and start selling them to other folks for $299.
Did anybody claim that somebody (CTD) CANCELLED orders for items at 'normal' rates, and then raised the price for all new orders?

CM

[L1A1Rocker]

Did anybody claim that somebody (CTD) CANCELLED orders for items at 'normal' rates, and then raised the price for all new orders?

CM

I don't know if CTD has done that, but that is exactly what SOG did to me. Put an order in for 12 AK mags and got an email from them two days later telling me that the price went up, and asking me to reorder at the new price. I've filed a BBB complaint and may try a small claims case against them after I get a favorable ruling from the BBB.

[lwknight]

When you price your product to where people complain and buy it anyway , you got it priced just right.
As long as stupid people pay high prices the prices will remain. When sales get slow the price drops .
Like others said before , " you do not need their product or you would have found it earlier" Panic buyers are the guilty ones for making high prices.

[Lloyd Smale]

amen to that! its just as much the fault of the guys paying those prices as it is the ones charging those prices.
When you price your product to where people complain and buy it anyway , you got it priced just right.
As long as stupid people pay high prices the prices will remain. When sales get slow the price drops .
Like others said before , " you do not need their product or you would have found it earlier" Panic buyers are the guilty ones for making high prices.

[Gliden07]

There pricing before the insanity wasn't all that great to start with! And there shipping is ridiculous! I realize that shipping is a huge concern but there shipping seems much higher than most other places! Plus they have a handling charge! I won't buy from them.

[engineer401]

I never found them cheaper than anyone else. From what I saw, Cheaper Than dirt never lived up to the name. Therefore, I've always shopped elsewhere.

[ku4hx]

I reserve the right to not buy from places I don't want to buy from ... for whatever reason. As Smokey Robinson and the Miracles would say, "You better shop around".

[Finarfin]

If I were in charge at Magpul, I'd start selling them to CTD for about $85 apiece.

[1Shirt]

I don't like it, and have stopped doing business with them. That said, somebody sometime back said "the business of business is business!", and I guess that must be their philosophy!
1Shirt!

[montana_charlie]

If I were in charge at Magpul, I'd start selling them to CTD for about $85 apiece.
In a recent 'market report' on the gun industry, one of the items was that Magpul is a million magazines behind in filling orders.

It's probable that Magpul's asking price to CTD is a moot point now ... and will remain moot for a good while.

[lwknight]

Well, at least the good news is the the goobment will play the dickens to locate and try to take up all those millions of magazines out there in the vast US of A .Surely they will realize the senselessness of any bans.

[montana_charlie]

The way Feinstein, Cuomo and Jerry Brown are villifying 30-round magazines, the population has come to fear them so much you can probably succeed in robbing a convenience store by pointing one at the clerk.

[Jay561]

Welcome to ground hog day, they did this back in 08 also.

[Kent Fowler]

When I first started getting a CTD catalog back in the 90's, one look at their shipping costs convinced me they would never get any of my business. They can charge whatever they want, I haven't bought from them and never will.

[kavemankel]

I live in N Tex and am 45 miles from CTD store. They have plenty of black guns and black gun gear but have almost triple the prices. I agree with capitalism but how much markup does it take to drive customers away forever. Then again If they were to keep old prices (I will coin the term " Pre-Hoarding") then they would virtually have no buisness and have to close the doors untill they get their next shippment. There are plenty of idiots out there in this current hoarding atmosphere that will pay three times market value for an AR which keeps their doors open. I purchased lots of stuff from them in the past never any high dollar stuff because there are cheaper places for that but I will continue to get gear from them. Not many places carry the gun gear that they do in store where I can have hands on prior to buying it. Internet is great but I like to see and feel before buying.

[montana_charlie]

Well, CTD isn't the only place with an ability to gouge.
Glancing at the rotating banner ad at the top of this forum page, it was on an Ammo outfit when I happened to be looking.
Out of curiosity I clicked on it and checked their 5.56 supply.

Well, they have some. That surprised me.
But, as I am only interested in the two military loads, I didn't see much to absorb my attention.
Then I noticed they had 100-round boxes of Federal 55-grain FMJ American Eagle, which is about the same as M193.
They want $200 (before any discussion of shipping) for 100 rounds.

Then I saw where they have a thousand rounds of HSM ammo for $999.

Off brand ammo (with a questionable rep) for a buck per round, and they say the shipping weight is 60 pounds.
We all know a thousand rounds weighs about half of that, so I expect they charge about sixty bucks for shipping instead of the more normal thirty-five.

One thing that is left up to guesswork on the site is whether that HSM ammo is new stuff ... or reloads.

CM

[Super Sneaky Steve]

Price gouging is good and it serves a few very important functions.

First, it makes people conserve resources. So if you're a guy how has a few AR's already you're very unlikely to buy more when they are selling at twice the price, however if they were still at the old price, say through some stupid price gouging law, then people would be encoraged to hord them causing a shortage.

Second, the high profit margin is an important signal to the market. It says, produce more of this item. I know Ruger just hired 100 new employees and other business who want a chunk of that profit will expand too and meet the demand. Again if prices do not raise then there's no incentive to produce more, redirect resources where they are needed most or to invest more capital.

[corey012778]

The way Feinstein, Cuomo and Jerry Brown are villifying 30-round magazines, the population has come to fear them so much you can probably succeed in robbing a convenience store by pointing one at the clerk.
I work at a convenience store, someone does that to me I may start LMAO. per company policy I still give him the money. (per company policy, I am not allowed to carry)

as for CTD, they always be gouging, there shipping has been horrible for years, they get you because they don't stock all the items they sell in all the warehouses thus they stuck you with two shipping charges. was going to do a order with them last year for some stuff. ended up ordering from two different places AND STILL PAID LESS SHIPPING.

[fishin_bum]

With the bad economy and high property prices DIRT isn't so CHEAP any more!!

[jabilli]

Better than what folks are listing in my local Craigslist...
$1.50-$2.00 per .223.

... :killingpc

[robpete]

I think it's definitely going to get worse yet. I can't wait for it to be over.....if that time ever comes.

[btroj]

Was at the local Scheels today. They had a large bin of 30 round AR mags for 29.99 each. Looked to be well over 50 mags in the bin. I think that is a pretty reasonable price.

[Shiloh]

Cheaper than Dirt. Donated $100K to the Second Amendment Foundation.
http://gunssavelives.net/blog/cheaper-than-dirt-donates-100000-to-second-amendment-foundation/#

SHiloh

[btroj]

That speaks volumes

[ridurall]

Screw supply and demand, I will not "demand" for Cheaper Than Dirt to "supply" anything for me from now on out. They did it before when Obama was first elected I noticed how much the prices of everything that they could supply was completely out of hand. Since then I made a point to not order anything from them and it looks like they didn't learn their lesson. To heck with them and their gouging methods. We have enough trouble with those that think dark colored gun is an evil assault rifle and should be banned. They can keep what they are willing to attempt to screw us over with.

[SlippShodd]

Can't say as I've ever thought CTD lived up to their name. On a couple very rare occasions, a buddy and I managed to find the sweet spot where product and shipping combined still equalled a good deal and we bought from them. As a rule I ignore them.
I agree with the shopping around rule. The internet affords us a really good tool that with persistence, may take some time, but virtually no expense to find the best places to buy from, and a lot of the time that brings me right back to my local businesses, which is by far my preference. However, the locals have just been overwhelmed lately and that makes it tougher for me. I recently completed an AR build and only about 20% of it came from locals (availability issues... nobody had anything), easily 40% came from Amazon vendors, and the rest from other internet vendors.
Just last week I bought 10 new, steel 30-round mags with Mag-Pul followers for $180 shipped. I like Mag-Pul stuff and I totally support their ultimatum to the state of Colorado, but I honestly don't understand the hullabaloo about P-Mags. I own some and they are obviously superior to many other plastic mags, but I still prefer steel. And even well-over-used ones are $30 around here. The company I bought from has experienced wholesale meltdown of their supply chain in recent months, but have only listed what I consider normal, cost-of-business price increases over the difficult times. They still get and ship product as they can and that's saying something.
I'm in the camp that's trying to endure and not panic and not line the pockets of "profiteers," if you will.

mike

[Bonz]

Honestly, my hope is that the gun debate goes away, prices return to normal and the "business men" that dramatically raised their prices to make more profit get stuck with all their investments...

[W.R.Buchanan]

I know CTD donated a bunch of money to the "Cause" They also sponsor "American Rifleman" on TV.

This is all done for the purpose of "Advertising."

Donating to the cause, does not absolve you from screwing the public!

Randy

[jabilli]

Could it be that the manufacturers could be the ones doing the price increases? (Not saying it is, I'm just pondering the possibility)

Wen't down to a local shop the other day, and while they're nice folks with a clean shop: I didn't buy any 7.62x54R as I intended because it was 8 or 9 bucks for a paper bundle-O-twenty.

I do like the idea of supporting Ma and Pa shops, so if the bundle was something like 5-6 bucks (close to twice what they used to be) I would've bought a couple.

[opos]

I don't buy from CTD but that's just Capitalism working both ways ..both seller and buyer can do as they please and the market will adjust....got disappointed during the last "frenzy" and frankly just shot less and waited it out. I was talking with my Son who is a major retailer in the fishing industry and he pointed out a couple of things to me...first the distributors or manufacturers may have raised prices so restocking at the retailer level has to be covered on future orders...the retailer might be your buddy but he still has to meet a margin or he'll go out of business. The other thing he noted was that due to the rush and frenzy caused by gun owners and reloaders...the retailers are out of stock..they had no way to know what was coming...They may have had some idea but nothing like what happened...now that people are not visiting the stores and buying components, guns and ammo...they are also not buying the other items that usually come about as "extras" (cleaning kits, reloading equipment, clothing, scopes, grips, on and on and on) so his business is impacted in all areas when there is a buyer frenzy and hoarding frenzy going on....so in a way the hoarding and feeding frenzy buying is impacting the retailer in major ways other than just the ammunition products...this makes the end user a player in the overall "blame" for what's happening to pricing. No one had any idea how nutty this thing might get and when it started the "sky is falling" mentality took over. So if it appears a retailer is gouging (and many are, no question about that) in some cases he's facing out of stock conditions...no way to tell when he gets restocked....he's going to pay more to get product on the shelves...and his entire overhead goes on while all business is down due to the frenzy on one product catagory. "The perfect storm" as my Son calls it....all the stars align to really bury the retailer that is just trying to do business.

There was a product shortage in one area in the fishing industry a few years back and over 10 smaller tackle stores went belly up in the San Diego area...all their sales were impacted by buyers frantically racing from one store to another and switching to the internet and stripping it clean...then blaming the small tackle stores and not buying from them any more.

My deal has been to not get on the band wagon...I have a reasonable amount of components for loading...sure I'd like to stick a few thousand primers more aside and a few bottles of powder, but I'll not pay $65 a thousand for primers and $45 a pound for Unique... nor would I really care about magazines at ridiculous prices, so I'll just shoot a bit less..been having lots of fun shooting a couple of highly accurate pellet guns I keep around...almost free, no pressure on supplies, just as enjoyable for an old duffer and no hassles with stores that are out of stock and frustrated.

[W.R.Buchanan]

opos; your solution to all of this hoopla and oink is the same as mine, and frankly it is what everyone should be doing. just buy what you will need for a year or so and be done with it. Leave the rest for somoeone else to use.

Succumbing to all of the panic is exactly what the people who concocted this mess wanted.

I called Midway yesterday looking for some scope rings and a few other things off the new and very sparse flyer. After waiting on hold for 20 minutes,(and shopping elsewhere in the interim) I found that they didn't have the rings I wanted, they also had none of the other 3-4 things I wanted so I said good bye and bought the rings from Optics Planet which did have stock. They cost me about $10 more but I got them coming instead of having to wait for an "approximate ship date" of sometime late next month..

I will point out that none of this is Midways's fault. You can't blame them when people buy everything they have and they can't restock fast enough or at all because of the current climate.

However one thing you won't see at Midway is Potterfield pushing prices up to rediculous levels like CTD has done. One thing I did see at Midway was them limiting the number of specific items you could purchase. This is an attempt to prevent profiteering, and stabilize the market and return it to a need based market rather than a panic based market.

It just shows the difference between sound business ethics and people only interested in the bottom line.

I'm sure everyone has read the letter sent out by Potterfield talking about the state of his business. We just have to wait until things settle down.

As far as hoarders go, and especially ones that hoard stuff they won't ever use. I blame you for this round of hysteria,,,,YOU SUCK!

Randy

[Bulltipper]

I have to say, I have never had a problem with CTD. I buy what I want, when it's at a good price and if I got a product that wasn't up to snuff, I called them and they sent me another and let me keep the defective one for parts. I have even gotten more items from them than I ordered (albeit stinky old rubber mag carriers) Like Suzie Orman said about buying and selling stocks, "It's all about dollar cost averaging". some stuff you buy really cheap, some you pay a little more for, but when it gets way out of line, you haven't done your homework, it is a bubble and somebody is just about to get screwed when the bubble bursts.

[MtGun44]

"Screw supply and demand" LOL!

How about gravity? Darned old thing can be really inconvenient at times, like the time a
friend fell off the roof. I'll suggest that next time he should just say "screw it" and he'll
be OK. :bigsmyl2:

CTD is sometimes cheap. If it is I buy. If not, I don't. Strange, huh?



Bill

[uscra112]

"Screw supply and demand" LOL!

How about gravity? Darned old thing can be really inconvenient at times, like the time a
friend fell off the roof. I'll suggest that next time he should just say "screw it" and he'll
be OK. :bigsmyl2:

CTD is sometimes cheap. If it is I buy. If not, I don't. Strange, huh?



Bill

:goodpost:

You said it for me, Bill.

With attitudes like that, it's no bloody wonder politicians like Obama can get elected.

Yes, I said it, and I meant it.

[jabilli]

To play devils advocate here- The store owners aren't the only folks with higher prices-

Was poking around in another forums' classifieds just a bit earlier tonight and saw a PAR-1 (Pump action Kalashnikov) for sale... IIRC, these rifles weren't worth much...Like 150-250$ range. >< 62931

I bought a Saiga a handful of years back for about 375$ish.... Same exact rifle - 775$ 62932
That was the cheapest I saw- 1K$ is about standard, maybe a bit less ><

[jabilli]

Hm, the images shunk, but the top picture has 1500$ listed.

"The past does not repeat itself, but it rhymes." : Around 2004 I was my fathers assistant for his home appraisal business (Right in the thick of when people were refinancing like crazy and trying to flip houses with money they didn't have)... A few times I wondered when the bubble would pop. Sure enough it did. It IS poor analogy to compare gun prices to the root causality of the recession, but my hope in the comparison is that maybe some day the craze/panic will subside and things return to normal.......A pretty big wish. IMO but it's a wish.

[RobS]

I agree with Wilco but doesn't this make a mockery of the business name?

Bingo!!!

[jsteed]

Gander Mtn did the same thing after the 2008 election. I emailed them with my thoughts and have never bought any ammo from them since and don't plan to in the future (they were selling 9mm 20rnd box of fmj at 49.95).

[Shedhunter]

Gander Mountain is always higher than the rest of the local stores and don't even carry reloading items anymore. I forget the last time I bought something there.

CTD years ago had Aguila Super Colibri for five bucks a brick so I bought a case, it's the only thing I ever bought and the way they jack prices up I'll never buy from them again.

[Kull]

CTD is are absolutely scandalous. There are so many documented examples it's not funny. They will never get one cent of my money.

The number one reason I hate them is because when it comes to gun legislation they are two faced and pick their position based on how much money they can make.

[jonp]

To play devils advocate here- The store owners aren't the only folks with higher prices-

Was poking around in another forums' classifieds just a bit earlier tonight and saw a PAR-1 (Pump action Kalashnikov) for sale... IIRC, these rifles weren't worth much...Like 150-250$ range. >< 62931

I bought a Saiga a handful of years back for about 375$ish.... Same exact rifle - 775$ 62932
That was the cheapest I saw- 1K$ is about standard, maybe a bit less ><

I saw a pump action Kalish at a gunshow yesterday and the guy wanted $399.

[psychicrhino]

Got a notification from them today......wont buy from them again.

[leadhead]

It is price gouging.... CTD wants 49.95 for a box of 50 Brown Bear
9x18 Makarov ammo. Come on.... I have a little shop not far from
me that got a small supply in and I bought 2 boxes yesterday for
$12.69 a box. Now that's treating people fair.
Denny

[robpete]

This topic has been driving me nuts for too long now. when will the insanity end?? I was going to start poking fun at the situation by posting classified ads, in every possible forum, for single 22lr rounds @ $10 a piece! Still might do it. Denny - Pennswoods??

[gareth96]

Yep.. CTD won't get my money.. no honor. Take Midway for example, Tulammo primers in stock for under $30/k.. Yes they won't get as much money as they could, but they retain their respectability...

[freebullet]

I don't buy nutin fromem( any gougers ) either, but I think this threads in the wrong section.

[tg32-20]

Yes, things are crazy out there. Prices 3, 4, 5 times as high as normal ( a year ago)
You do not have to buy it and if you absolutely have to have it, you will pay the price. Or wait till you find a better price.

In the future, remember who treated you as best they could and support them, not the ones that tried to make a buck from the situation.

But do not expect things to go back the way they were. If the price goes down a little, those that paid the high price will think that it is a deal and that will become the new normal.
It really is a sad situation for us all.

[deces]

Cheaper Than Dirt needs to change their name to the acronym EAF.

[leadhead]

robpete,
Czar in Ford City.............
Denny

[gareth96]

Good one deces...

[Nickle]

"Dumber than Dirt" has a problem that can be summed up in one word.

Greed

[Green Frog]

The reasons to buy from any of the mail/internet order concerns are 1) price and 2) availability. If the part you are looking for is 1) cheaper and 2) available somewhere else, buy it from that source and the high priced place will come in line or go out of business. Vote with your purse... complaining on this site will do little to affect prices, except that people will now know about a company that is out there and they can make their buying decisions based on the two tenets above. It's called capitalism.

Merry Christmas,
Froggie

[W.R.Buchanan]

Froggie: the whole idea of this thread which was started Feb 5 2013 was to warn people to stay away.

IF they read any of this thread and still choose to deal with CTD then no one can change their minds and they can just enjoy the experience.

I doubt they will be ******** publically about how they got screwed, even if they did .

I was actually surprised that this thread got dredged up again. There have been several others started on the same topic since mine fell by the wayside last April.

What this thread did accomplish was to gin up some $upport for this website in the way of membership upgrades and the like.

So,,, Something good did happen !

Randy

[WILCO]

"Dumber than Dirt" has a problem that can be summed up in one word.

Greed

Communists say things like that too. The truth is basic capitalism. Vote with your wallet or wait for the government to even the score for you. You'll soon get a taste of how the greedy health insurance companies were fixed......................................

[MtGun44]

Go, Wilco.

As soon as we start wanting something other than the market (which is YOU and ME and him over there, all together
making the best choice FOR THEMSELVES ONLY) to sort out prices and supply you will find that the government
that has the power to control prices has the power to wreck your life in a thousand other ways.

Bill

[62chevy]

The market brought CTD back into line. Not sure if the over priced parts made up for the lost orders they missed. Guess we will never know not that it matters.

[NVScouter]

This thread is retarded and worse to bring it back. You brought nothing to the table just a 8 month brewing quip that failed in every way. Troll elsewhere.

[Tazman1602]

Capitalism, that's the way we operate in this country and it's a good thing. Anyone complaining about CTD's prices needs to keep one thing in mind --- if those prices stay high, and they have come back down a BIT, that means only one thing. Someone, somewhere, is paying those prices happily and as long as people pay those prices they will_not come back down.

Personally, I haven't bought anything from CTD since they started this but everyone else was on that bandwagon for a bit.

Vote with your WALLET. If the prices are too high, simply don't buy from them.................

Art

[catman81056]

I've been buying the hell outta their boolit molds, cheaper prices that a lot of others. I bought a Lee 6 cav mold and the description said handles included for $36.00. When I got the package, no handles. I called them and had them read the description, they said it was a misprint but they sent me the handles free of charge. Yes I'll keep buying from them.

[MtGun44]

Wow! "Multiple warehouse shipping racket". Hmm. Suppose you have 5500 suppliers. Suppose you can link to many of the
suppliers and have them ship directly to the customer, instead of shipping to you and then you ship to the customer (two
shipping charges, two shipping delays) - boy that is a really cool way to . . . . . . . . speed up customer getting his item
at a lower overall cost. . . ?? Pretty nasty folks there trying to foist that off on you - but you CAUGHT THEM!

Ever buy anything on Amazon? Entertaining group. LOL!


Bill

[Boolseye]

Allright, allright!! Merry Christmas, everyone, I hope the season is treating you well.

[Guy La Pourque]

The lesson here boys is obvious. When times are good - stock up for all you're worth! Buy until it hurts. Up here in Canada we had an ammo drought back when Bill Clinton was running amok in the White House. We couldn't get ammo unless we took out small mortgages. When things settled down I bought a reloader and stocked up on primers and powder. When hi-cap mags became illegal up here in Canada I stashed a few for my own personal use - just in case.

People laugh at me because I do the same thing with food and supplies. Friends that live in Calgary stopped laughing during the floods - and bottled water was going for $50.00 a flat!

The market is NOT your friend in tough times, fellas. Take pains now so that you are not at its mercy later.

[boatworks]

Lee 6 cav's at FS Reloading is only 32.97 and their shipping is cheaper too.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

Capitalism, that's the way we operate in this country and it's a good thing. Anyone complaining about CTD's prices needs to keep one thing in mind --- if those prices stay high, and they have come back down a BIT, that means only one thing. Someone, somewhere, is paying those prices happily and as long as people pay those prices they will_not come back down.

Personally, I haven't bought anything from CTD since they started this but everyone else was on that bandwagon for a bit.

Vote with your WALLET. If the prices are too high, simply don't buy from them.................

Art

This is correct. I'd just like to add that the profit and loss system is how we distribute scarce resorces with alternative uses.

Where there is high profit, like with the reloading supplies, that's a market signal for others to get into the market. For new companies and suppliers to get in the game. For existing manufacturers to ramp up and invest in more capital equipment.

The higher prices also create an incentive for people not to buy more than they need. When government forces prices down then a few people can afford to hoard everything for themselves.

My hope is that in a few years the hoarders will start to sell off their stock and we'll get some good deals.

[Love Life]

The lesson here boys is obvious. When times are good - stock up for all you're worth! Buy until it hurts. Up here in Canada we had an ammo drought back when Bill Clinton was running amok in the White House. We couldn't get ammo unless we took out small mortgages. When things settled down I bought a reloader and stocked up on primers and powder. When hi-cap mags became illegal up here in Canada I stashed a few for my own personal use - just in case.

People laugh at me because I do the same thing with food and supplies. Friends that live in Calgary stopped laughing during the floods - and bottled water was going for $50.00 a flat!

The market is NOT your friend in tough times, fellas. Take pains now so that you are not at its mercy later.

The gospel.

[David2011]

Let capitalism work. It works in two directions. When the seller's price exceeds what the market will pay one of two things happens. Eother the price will get in line with what the consumer will pay or the seller will sit on the overpriced item. If enough overpriced items sit long enough the doors close.

David

[badbob454]

I quit buying from cheaper than dirt when they wouldn't ship 22 cal.pellets to me in calif. now in Nevada I dislike the practices they have had and as stated some gouging , but I blame the people stupid enough to pay the ridiculous prices I bypass hi priced and search for the best buy , inc. shipping , midway has been quite fair as I have seen so midway usa is my first choice

[HNSB]

The problem with 22 rimfire is that demand has increased at all price levels (what's known in economics as a demand curve shift)
That changes the equilibrium (market) price much higher. Retailers can either sell at the new equilibrium price and maintain stock or sell at the old price and be backordered for four years.
It seems the preference here is to have it backordered.

[MtGun44]

"Too much demand" is absolutely accurate. I am GUESSING that this is due to people
wanting to stock up for future shortages, but it may be so many new shooters brought in
by CCW laws and relaxed gun control after some of the recent Supreme Court rulings.

Interesting to watch it sort out.

Buy at the cheapest supplier - ALWAYS.

Bill

[Nickle]

Communists say things like that too. The truth is basic capitalism. Vote with your wallet or wait for the government to even the score for you. You'll soon get a taste of how the greedy health insurance companies were fixed......................................

Fail, on your part.

You assume I want somebody to put the in line. I don't.

Captialism is truly a two edged sword.

Now, they have their right to set their prices just as high as they want.

I do know they've done some bait and switch during the sales process, advertised at a low price, jacked it WAY up in the check out. Probably not even legal, but I really don't care.

Now, as I said, their right to high prices.

My right to chose to not buy from them.

THAT is capitalism at work.

And, by the way, get off your "high horse". You don't know me, nor where I've been in life, not even who I've met. And, yes, I've met some real Communists before. Fairly safe assumption they were, seeing they were Soviet officers, in uniform, in West Germany (SMLM). They usually don't let the dissidents and deserters do that job. They do check out who they send.

I'm not offended, but, you sir, were offensive.

As was said, dumb subject. Most folks whine because they got the shaft when they bought from greedy people. My thoughts are, if you're dumb enough to pay their prices, you deserve to pay them. I don't and I won't support them. Demanding I do is definitely NOT capitalism.

[el roboto]

Gander mountain was doing the same thing. Charging inflated prices for all of their ammo, reloading supplies, and guns. They still are charging inflated prices for ammo. They will fill the shelves with limited stock yet somehow the stock always seems to refill when its bought out.

[sirgknight]

cheaper than dirt; problem is the dirt they are talking about is gold dust dirt. as others have stated: never done business with them, probably never will.

[pls1911]

CTD's just up the road from me, and it is frustrating to see them essentially try to take SEVERE advantage of the situation... they're not improving profits, they drive customers away permanently. Than being said, Americans have short memories when confronted with new advertising at better prices.
The country would be better off if every one followed Larry Potterfield's axample with MIDWAY...
Quality people, quality products, good service, and always treating custors fairly...
The Ultimate good example is Mike Dillon and his published "Customer's Bill Of Rights".
Can't applaud these two gents enough.

[Garyshome]

I went to that site a couple of years ago ant was looking to make a purchase, but when I arrived at shipping & handling, I was shocked and ran as fast as I could to a different supplier. Never bought anything from ctd, most likely will not either.

[Down South]

I purchase most of my reloading and casting stuff online. I shop around for the best prices with combined shipping for the items I'm looking for. Who has the best combined price is who I order from.
I can't remember the last time CTD has won thus; I haven't ordered anything from them.
I vote with my wallet. If CTD wants any of my hard earned money, they will have to drop their prices equal to or below their competitor's prices.

[Old Caster]

If one of you that think CTD is selling their wares at too high of a price had knowledge that was very unusual and few had it, would you work for a very cheap price because you wouldn't want to gouge anyone.

[dragon813gt]

Only each individual can make that decision. Because each person has a different definition of gouging. For most here it seems that if you charge $5 more than they think it should cost it's gouging. This isn't a natural disaster situation where people are charging $50 for a case of water. Gouging comes into the conversation when it's a needed item to survive. What's currently happening is inconvenience on a massive scale.

[Magnum6]

If you don't contact them and tell them how you feel, they'll never know. These companies need to know people ARE paying attention. If we don't appreciate their business practices, we should tell them so. Mike

Mike I Tried to have it out with ole Larry@ MidWay USA here about 6 years ago about his pricing habits also like the fist posted on this thread .... Wrote Mr Larry" 2 different email's about the subject , and no response to this day about it . so I wrote him off like he did Me". I have spent $1000's of dollars with ole Larry boy through the year's , but haven't bought anything from him since he ignored my email's . I also put SEVERAL More Co's you all are familiar with on my Black list too , because of Smart A** comments back to me , or None" at all like ole Larry boy . I also wrote off CTD a few years back myself .

Yeah I know , some of you fellow's are gonna cry fowl on my part.... Supply and demand , and God know what else , but until yall jump up and put your Foot down like ole Mike , and myself and a few other people here and there , None of this Crazyness is going to stop .

But I tell ya boy's and girl's , I'm like ole Mike" and a few other's here . I won't let people like that Jack me over , and if the rest of ya wanta bend over and back up to them with hand full's of your money , go ahead Not me . I Shop around HARD on this internet when I need bullets , primers and powder , and get the Best Shipping I can , OR NONE " ! I finely did what most of these clown's out here in biasness did , I Stopped being THE" Loyal Customer . I shop now and shop HARD Brother .

I pretty much Quite going to all these different gun show too , because of most of those crocks there also . Where ever you go these day's to buy WHAT EVER" , there's always some clown that try's his Da*****t to bend you over . It make med mad , and that's why I do Almost all my shopping over this Internet , so I can just close the page if I don't like there high $ prices .

No reply needed from any of ya on this subject , just wanted tell yall what I think about all this Gouging , going on all over this country form all these CEO's... so~called American Business Man and Women .

If the American Business Man and Women" want to play fair with this Gouging business they got going on , the Give your peones you got working for ya a descent Raise" on our Check's ever year , instead of None the Last 12 Years " , them maybe we could play your game a little better , and 0~ Yes , We Know Yall are Cleaning Up On your profits . don't forget , we all work for you Crock's ever day , and we see the Huge $'s your raking in and showing ALL" the Profit's in Your Pocket's ! 0~Yes We all see what your doing , American Business Man , don't think were all completely stupid . This ain't the first horse we road .

Like I said here" , I don't need any of your Negative Commits" Or Reply's here.... I'm just letting these business people on here know how I feel about this subject...... My 2 cent's in here on this subject , That's It ! enough said .


Magnum6

[Magnum6]

Let capitalism work. It works in two directions. When the seller's price exceeds what the market will pay one of two things happens. Eother the price will get in line with what the consumer will pay or the seller will sit on the overpriced item. If enough overpriced items sit long enough the doors close.

David

That would be nice David " Except most of these money pit's won't tie up there profit's in Stock" ! Ever look at MidWay USA's web site ?..... Out of This Out Of That" He's keep it that way for 7 Years" now , that's why we can find enough powders, primers and cases , and what have ya . They keep that profit Right in there own pocket . They could care Less" if you and I and there peion workers " , Live or Die hungry or not little Brother , wake up and smell the rose's man .

Magnum6

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Plus another, these people are no friends of reloaders. Semper FI Jim

[Magnum6]

I quit buying from cheaper than dirt when they wouldn't ship 22 cal.pellets to me in calif. now in Nevada I dislike the practices they have had and as stated some gouging , but I blame the people stupid enough to pay the ridiculous prices I bypass hi priced and search for the best buy , inc. shipping , midway has been quite fair as I have seen so midway usa is my first choice

Man I can tell you haven't been buy from MidWay very long , if you think Ole Larry boy Quote" is quite Fair ! You should of been buying from him 7 years ago , you would of thought he was Below Dirt Cheap , back in them days . LOL .:mrgreen:

[Magnum6]

CTD's just up the road from me, and it is frustrating to see them essentially try to take SEVERE advantage of the situation... they're not improving profits, they drive customers away permanently. Than being said, Americans have short memories when confronted with new advertising at better prices.
The country would be better off if every one followed Larry Potterfield's axample with MIDWAY...
Quality people, quality products, good service, and always treating custors fairly...
The Ultimate good example is Mike Dillon and his published "Customer's Bill Of Rights".
Can't applaud these two gents enough.

Quote"... The country would be better off if every one followed Larry Potterfield's axample with MIDWAY... Man" , I can see ole Larry has your wallet right where he want's it , and That's Ok Man , so I won't say anything negative about your buddy there , cause we don't need to get into a know down drag out of this subject" , so I'll just put a :mrgreen: face here instead . Hoping that doesn't offend you too much Texas Brother .... I Use to do a LOTA" Bus. with ole Larry boy and I mean a Huge Lot , but haven't for about 7 years now , you can find out why if you read the rest of this thread .

Man , forgive me Texas Brother , but I Need" to get OFF" this thread" before I Blow a Gasket" Big time about this subject @ hand ... As All way yall take care...

Magnum6

[btroj]

Don't sugar coat it, tell us how you really feel about Midway

I shop at places that have decent prices, that have decent service, and provide the items I need. That is generally Midway. I can order it before noon one day and have it by 5 PM the next day.

I am fortunate as I don't order much stuff. I have the equipment I need so most of what I buy is powder and primers and those are purchased locally.

Buy where you want, I don't care. I also don't care what your hang ups are with the places I shop. I shop to fill my needs, not to support your need to piss and moan.

[62chevy]

Wow just Wow!!! I can't believe this thread grew legs and now has learned to run. But it does give folks a place to vent. The way some people view the business world will never cease to amaze me. Had a business mentor tell me one time 'Some will, some won't, so what' a little crusty if you ask me but I get the sentiment.

[Photog]

Well folks, you are all running the race to the bottom! If you actually understood retail:
You can compete on service.
You can compete on price.
Not both.

CTD competes on price. When they cannot buy product to replace stock, they have to jack their prices up so they can replenish and stay in business.
Midway competes on price too. But in a Wal-mart way. Wal-mart drives down prices by forcing vendors to take smaller margins. Midway may not have as much power as Wally-world, but I see it in their business model.
Nobody, and I mean nobody, can have everything in stock all the time. Thats not how the world works.
If you want consistent service, go to your local (aka overpriced) shop and start buying EVERYTHING from that store. I'll guarantee you that once you are one of their best customers, your availability concerns will disappear, because they will start buying for you. But even then not everything will be available.
I deal with this in a retail store every day. Our Vendors want us to commit to pre-season buys, so that they can plan for production. If we don't stock enough and try to re-order, guess what? Yep the factory is out, the wholesalers are out, so we can not get any more. Is that somehow the retailer's fault?

[Love Life]

Mike I Tried to have it out with ole Larry@ MidWay USA here about 6 years ago about his pricing habits also like the fist posted on this thread .... Wrote Mr Larry" 2 different email's about the subject , and no response to this day about it . so I wrote him off like he did Me". I have spent $1000's of dollars with ole Larry boy through the year's , but haven't bought anything from him since he ignored my email's . I also put SEVERAL More Co's you all are familiar with on my Black list too , because of Smart A** comments back to me , or None" at all like ole Larry boy . I also wrote off CTD a few years back myself .

Yeah I know , some of you fellow's are gonna cry fowl on my part.... Supply and demand , and God know what else , but until yall jump up and put your Foot down like ole Mike , and myself and a few other people here and there , None of this Crazyness is going to stop .

But I tell ya boy's and girl's , I'm like ole Mike" and a few other's here . I won't let people like that Jack me over , and if the rest of ya wanta bend over and back up to them with hand full's of your money , go ahead Not me . I Shop around HARD on this internet when I need bullets , primers and powder , and get the Best Shipping I can , OR NONE " ! I finely did what most of these clown's out here in biasness did , I Stopped being THE" Loyal Customer . I shop now and shop HARD Brother .

I pretty much Quite going to all these different gun show too , because of most of those crocks there also . Where ever you go these day's to buy WHAT EVER" , there's always some clown that try's his Da*****t to bend you over . It make med mad , and that's why I do Almost all my shopping over this Internet , so I can just close the page if I don't like there high $ prices .

No reply needed from any of ya on this subject , just wanted tell yall what I think about all this Gouging , going on all over this country form all these CEO's... so~called American Business Man and Women .

If the American Business Man and Women" want to play fair with this Gouging business they got going on , the Give your peones you got working for ya a descent Raise" on our Check's ever year , instead of None the Last 12 Years " , them maybe we could play your game a little better , and 0~ Yes , We Know Yall are Cleaning Up On your profits . don't forget , we all work for you Crock's ever day , and we see the Huge $'s your raking in and showing ALL" the Profit's in Your Pocket's ! 0~Yes We all see what your doing , American Business Man , don't think were all completely stupid . This ain't the first horse we road .

Like I said here" , I don't need any of your Negative Commits" Or Reply's here.... I'm just letting these business people on here know how I feel about this subject...... My 2 cent's in here on this subject , That's It ! enough said .


Magnum6

This is the stupidest thing I have read all week. Maybe all year.

[Love Life]

Quote"... The country would be better off if every one followed Larry Potterfield's axample with MIDWAY... Man" , I can see ole Larry has your wallet right where he want's it , and That's Ok Man , so I won't say anything negative about your buddy there , cause we don't need to get into a know down drag out of this subject" , so I'll just put a :mrgreen: face here instead . Hoping that doesn't offend you too much Texas Brother .... I Use to do a LOTA" Bus. with ole Larry boy and I mean a Huge Lot , but haven't for about 7 years now , you can find out why if you read the rest of this thread .

Man , forgive me Texas Brother , but I Need" to get OFF" this thread" before I Blow a Gasket" Big time about this subject @ hand ... As All way yall take care...

Magnum6

This is a close 2nd.

[David2011]

That would be nice David " Except most of these money pit's won't tie up there profit's in Stock" ! Ever look at MidWay USA's web site ?..... Out of This Out Of That" He's keep it that way for 7 Years" now , that's why we can find enough powders, primers and cases , and what have ya . They keep that profit Right in there own pocket . They could care Less" if you and I and there peion workers " , Live or Die hungry or not little Brother , wake up and smell the rose's man .

Magnum6

OK, so you really think a company makes money on what they can't sell? Do you really believe that they don't have primers and powder because they won't buy it? You need to "smell the roses, man." If they could get primers and powder rest assured they would. A retail business WANTS to have items available for consumers. That is their only source of income. I'm not trying to defend Midway, especially since they invited their commercial customers to pay full retail but you have to look at what it costs to run a business the size of Midway. Their packaging and shipping area was a very high dollar investment that doesn't earn them a dime. It's an expense to them. When I do order from Midway it's because of a good sale price. The benefit of their massive investment in the shipping department benefits the consumer and the seller by getting the item to the buyer's doorstep quickly, thereby cultivating a satisfied purchaser and possible repeat business. All successful resellers go by a similar business model. Yes I know the're out of some things and have been for a long time. I haven't seen Lee hardness testers in stock for along time. I don't think for one second that they are out because the woud rather keep the money rather than parlay it into more profit. On the other hand, Midway is a privately owned business and it's none of my business what they do with their profits as long as they don't support anti-gunners. That would not be likely in their business.

If you'll look back into recent history, gun supplies started to come into a heavier demand at about the same time that the economy went south. Both events concur with the realization that Barry Obama would likely become the Democrats' presidential nominee. I didn't invent the history; just observed it.

David

[Old Caster]

I don't get the typical rhetoric about gouging. I decide where to buy based on price, convenience, trust, delivery, and return policy. Surprisingly no one makes me do this. Oh! and by the way, all through my career, I chose my job in a similar fashion. There were times when I got a larger salary from a company only to decide that I wanted to go somewhere else because I didn't think they were completely honest. If they weren't completely honest with a customer, what made me think they would be completely honest with me. I also had people under me from time to time that I felt the same way about and got rid of them. Most of the time, I felt like virtually everyone in the company was above reproach including the owner but by no means were those places the cheapest.

[MtGun44]

Folks with the economic and business sense of a five year old are only funny for a while,
and then they get tiresome.

Bill

[62chevy]

Folks with the economic and business sense of a five year old are only funny for a while,
and then they get tiresome.

Bill



If it was easy, anybody could do it.




That about sums it up Bill.

[Three44s]

I just shop for things!

I find the best all around deal and either follow through or not!

Midway nor CDT or anyone else in the gun field wanted O'bumer ...... we got him, we are stuck with him for the foreseeable future. He did not invent gun control, but he's good at parroting it.

The fact that folks layed back and did not stock up as the storm clouds gathered are mad now at the shortages?

Get over it!

I layed in wheel weights as my friends and family laughed at me ........

......... They ain't laughing now! ......... No ...... they are crying for their own!

I loaded up on .22 LR like there was no tomorrow ......... still got most of it ..... bought them for 7.99 @ 525 count ........ have not resold any ...... and not planning on doing so ..........

So to all the folks that gave me their reloading gear for cheap because it was out of fashion ............

Thank you!!


Three 44s

[Recluse]

Folks with the economic and business sense of a five year old are only funny for a while,
and then they get tiresome.

Bill

Bill, you're being a bit generous on the five-year-old bit. I was getting an allowance when I was five-years-old and figured out pretty early about learning to save and that different candy out of the different jars at the drug store cost different amounts. I also learned that I could SAVE my money and by doing without and by saving more of my allowance, I'd have a lot MORE money after a while.

I also began learning about what things cost and figured out that I got an allowance because Mom and Dad paid me to do certain things around the house--it wasn't "free money."

It's sad that we have as many socialists in the gun world as we do, although these particular socialists would deny to their last dying breath that they were socialists.

Unfortunately, their own words give them away every time.

:coffee:

[Recluse]

Man I can tell you haven't been buy from MidWay very long , if you think Ole Larry boy Quote" is quite Fair ! You should of been buying from him 7 years ago , you would of thought he was Below Dirt Cheap , back in them days . LOL .:mrgreen:

Well, I've been buying from Midway well before the internet, and in fact, back when they offered free shipping on everything.

But let's look at what's happened since the days of newsletters and free shipping from Midway, eh? Here we go--

• Price of fuel has tripled

• Wages have more than doubled

• Gov't regulations have quadrupled, along with price of licenses, permits, fees, etc

• We (the U.S.) are getting our asses kicked on the trade deficit to the point that our GDP is virtually irrelevant

• The cost of lead (for projectiles) have more than quadrupled; the cost of copper has become astronomical

• Steel is now imported and costs double, in some cases, triple from that of the domestic steel that used to be produced here for reloading and gun equipment.

• The push for employee provided benefits including health insurance has now become law and employers the size of Midway are forced to pay more for something that contributes absolutely zero to their bottom line

• Midway is simply a reseller--they are not a manufacturer. But, they are the LARGEST reseller. As such, they have a larger overhead. But in return. . .

• Shipping has become far more expensive in many ways. Think Hazmat fees, mandatory insurance, tracking, etc.

• The number of gun-owners in just the past decade has soared. The number of guns manufactured and owned in the past decade has soared. Those guns need ammo and parts and accessories. Supply cannot always keep up with demand. Those who have the supply can set the price. If the market likes it, it will support it. If not. . .

And so on.

So you wanna blame "Ole Larry" for being out of stuff? Why don't you blame me instead? I buy a lot of stuff from "Ole Larry," so who knows--I may have bought some of those items that you are upset because they are out of stock.

Now, as someone who has represented Fortune 500 companies for the past two decades by way of marketing and advertising (of which the four Ps are Product, Price, Promotion, Placement) why in the bloody blue hell would I encourage a client to be OUT OF STOCK (OOS) on something that is obviously in demand?

That's crazy talk!

Nobody makes money on a product when that product is not there to sell. Capitalism and a free-market economy is about making money.

Sorry that you seem to have a grudge against financially successful people. The Potterfield family is the epitome of the American Dream. They had an idea, started it up, worked their butts off on it, invested their own money, then borrowed and leveraged and took all the risks, and continued to grow it. They now have a very large and successful business with hundreds of thousands of customers. They took the risks and made the investments--not you, not me. Don't like their success? Do as you're doing, don't shop with them.

They can live without you just as easy as they can live without me.

But it might just help to understand a few of the very real market forces at work that influence pricing and operations.

And remember: The liberals aren't the only ones who have a plethora of low-information voters. ;)

:coffee:

[btroj]

I love it when JD posts like this. Clear, concise thoughts. Well thought out arguments.

Makes it very hard to disagree with him even if I wanted to, which I don't.

[Love Life]

How dare Midway USA!!! I just went to buy and obscure spring for pistol that hasn't been made since the 90's and they didn't have it in stock!!! How evil....

[TES]

I think that what most folks don't get is you see a cheap price and think to yourself "wow what a deal!". Then when it is all said and done and you do an actual cost "anal"isys you quickly find out that it was a cruddy deal. You see it is a simple switch of profit that most people don't seem to mind or are to stupid to figure out. I can say that I got a deal from (any big box store) and then you get gouged on shipping. That's how it works and will continue to work until they get hit in the wallet. The bait... is that it is almost always available or will be sooner (insert date that changes every week) than most places because they sell more than anyone else. That's why these guys are considered big cats and everyone else is well....mute. Support your local vendors and if they cant get it then wait until they can!

Before anyone chimes in.. do a simple cost analysis of a RIA 1911 from CTD. Then figure out how much with fees and shipping it will actually cost, plus your time. It's actually more!

[dondiego]

Bill, you're being a bit generous on the five-year-old bit. I was getting an allowance when I was five-years-old and figured out pretty early about learning to save and that different candy out of the different jars at the drug store cost different amounts. I also learned that I could SAVE my money and by doing without and by saving more of my allowance, I'd have a lot MORE money after a while.

I also began learning about what things cost and figured out that I got an allowance because Mom and Dad paid me to do certain things around the house--it wasn't "free money."

It's sad that we have as many socialists in the gun world as we do, although these particular socialists would deny to their last dying breath that they were socialists.

Unfortunately, their own words give them away every time.

:coffee:

Well said - Their words and actions always give them away!

Don

[62chevy]

I just love it when folks complain about shipping costs. They don't have a clue what it cost to ship items and the heaver they are the more it cost to ship. When I was the Assistant Manager of a warehouse in the 90s we charged $10 for shipping and lost money on even small orders. You have to realize boxes cost money, packing cost money, tape cost money and workers don't work for free. Any shipping I get for less than $20 is a bargain. Free is nice but I know the price of the product is higher too.

If you live in a large city your selections of guns and rifles are unlimited but live in a rural area like mine and you are limited. If the local gun store will not order the gun you want then you are left with only one choice, order it on line or drive two hours to the big city. And this place has FREE Shipping http://www.cheapascanbe.com/ not sure his prices are the best but free shipping. The other nice thing is he is only 15 minutes from my house fancy that.

[Recluse]

I just love it when folks complain about shipping costs. They don't have a clue what it cost to ship items and the heaver they are the more it cost to ship. When I was the Assistant Manager of a warehouse in the 90s we charged $10 for shipping and lost money on even small orders. You have to realize boxes cost money, packing cost money, tape cost money and workers don't work for free.

Absolutely true.

The powder and primers and pistols and rifles and cases and dies and other stuff we buy at our local guns store? We're paying shipping on them, too, because those products didn't walk in the store's door. Someone packed them. Someone loaded them onto the railroad car or 18-wheeler or airplane. Someone delivered them to the local gun store. And none of that was free.

Same goes for hazmat when we buy powder or primers at our local gun stores. We're paying for part of that hazmat in the final price.

I don't look at online buying these days so much as a bargain (although they are out there to be had) but rather as a convenience. At better than $3/gallon plus the wear and tear on my vehicles, it's much more comfortable and cost effective to shop via the internet than it is pounding the pavement.

And it's to that end that I'll continue to do business with Midway, Midsouth, Powder Valley and other fine online retailers who've done me well over the years. For a while, Midway's shipping got to be what I considered "out of hand" compared to their competitors.

But contrary to what Magnum6 says, "Ole Larry boy" listened and Midway and added options to their shipping. To those that still complain, "flat rate may be flat rate" but how does the stuff get in the box and sent out?

Gotta pay someone to do that.

Too many folks simply do not understand scale of business and the operational costs thereof.

:coffee:

[lwknight]

I went to CTD awhile back and they were too high on everything so I just never went back.
I would not know if they gouge or not and it don't bother me one bit because...
I NEVER WENT BACK!!!!!

[MtGun44]

Well said, JD. You have more patience than I do.

Bill

[303Guy]

Has anyone mention the cost of keeping slow moving items on the shelf? Not trying to justify bad business practice, mind you. I must say that you folks in the US make me smile when you complain of the price of things - like 22 ammo and powder and stuff. You wonna see the ridiculous prices we have to pay here in NZ! How does NZ$85 (about US$50) for a pound of powder sound? Even though it's made in OZ, sent to the US, canted into 1 lb containers and sent all the way back to us, it's the same price we pay for it to come direct from OZ (under a different name). 22 ammo is not cheap for us either. On the bright side - we don't have a shortage of anything! Powders, primers, bullets not so much but OK (303 bullets are a little thin on the ground), 22 ammo (of any type make or brand) and so on. (And we can go hunting all year round! Just had to throw that in. [smilie=1:)

[btroj]

But that funny accent is a deal breaker......

[MtGun44]

Long shipping distances in the days of $90/bbl oil and small markets do not help for low
prices, sorry to say. Too bad there isn't a packaging expert like Hodgdon around OZ. That
is really the expertise they bring to the business. They can package powder with safety
and low added cost into small containers. I believe they even package powder for Lake
City ammo factory because they can do it safer and cheaper. Taking a couple of hundred tons
of powder and getting it into tiny plastic bottles for a low cost and without blowing yourself
up is not simple.

Bill

[el roboto]

Man that dude is really butthurt over not getting an email reply from a guy tryimg to run a huge business. And make no excuses for ctd. It didnt cost them anymore to buy their products from the wholesalers so why charge us more? Gouging thatswhy. Its easy to say dont buy it but say that when u run out and u need it. and even if i dont buy it someone will so they are still shafting one of their customers.

[Old Caster]

If it is the cheapest place to buy something, how can it be gouging and if it isn't the cheapest it can be bought for, why buy it.

[HNSB]

The way things are selling right now, low price = out of stock.
Until the market settles down, that's just how it is. A retailer can choose to maintain low prices and be sold out of inventory as soon as it hits the shelves, then wait until more comes in, or sell at a higher price and not sell as quickly.
The ideal situation for a retailer would be to find the price at which the inventory sells out in exactly the time it takes to be replenished.