?44 Mag, 2400 powder, why such different load datsa?

[gray wolf]

My load books, ( not current ) and my searching-- seem to show a bunch of different load data for a 240 grain bullet in a 44 Mag. with 2400 powder ( alliant )
Jacketed or PB is OK, I always start at the low end.
So far I have found anyplace from
Hornady
17.4------ 1100 FPS 21.2------ 1550 FPS
Sierra
19 ------ 1269 FPS 21-------- 1434 FPS
Lyman
16 -------980 FPS 23 -------1460 FPS

18.5 -----1078 FPS 20.6------1248 FPS

19.4 -----974 FPS 23.4------1232 FPS

All that is for a 240 grain bullet. What the heck is the
Min. Max. for 2400 and a 240 grain bullet ?
I need a safe Minimum and a safe Maximum.

[geargnasher]

With a 240-grain cast SWC I use 19.5 grains of modern 2400. Low-middle of the Lyman data and most accurate with several alloys, including WDWW and 16:1. Half a grain more is getting too warm for my liking (flimsy *** Model 29 with fabulous soup-can-thick cylinder walls) and half a grain less burned a bit dirty and had higher SD over the chrono.

Gear

[GP100man]

gray wolf , it`s the way they test the pressures some use CUP & some use PSI

Then some use actual firearms & some use test barrels , then lengths come into play .

Bout 20gr. is all my wrists can stand under a 430421 !

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Gray Wolf,

I think your question has been pretty well answered.

Each firearm and shooter being an indivigual, what may be completely safe in your handgun may leave you with hand/wrist trama for a week or more. Clearly that was just too much of a good thing for your situation.

I have a stubby SP101 rated for .357 mag. loads, but there will be few that wish to shoot a steady diet of .357 in the small but very strong handgun. Been there and tried that.

The point being, if you start at the low listings you have provided and "work up" loads for you and your firearm, you will arrive at what suits the two of you best.

Provided that is, that your bullet choice and 2400 ring your handgun's bell. Maybe will, maybe won't.

In my RUGER 300Win. Mag, I have a 165gr Nosler Partition load that shows no/zero/zip signs of excessive pressure, provides right at 3300fps and 7/8" groups. One of my manuals doesn't list loads at that level, while another does.

This is why I "worked up" to that level, watching for any pressure signs, watching the groups and watching the chronograph for weard fluxuations in velocity.

As other posters have indicated, there are different ways and methods, as well as different firing platforms used to produce us the information you have quoted.

It is up to each of us to then take this "basic" information, sketchy though it may be, and safely do the testing needed to assure good safe results in our firearm.

AS I'm sure you already know, This will not happen by starting with the highest listed load.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[gray wolf]

Well I agree with whats been said and I am not looking to hot rod anything.
What I wanted to know and perhaps I asked in the wrong way, Was the correct start load for the 240 grain bullet, so I could work up slowly. I remember years ago having unburned powder tying up my pistol with 2400. From the data I have gotten so far I am thinking 18 grains would be OK for 6 test rounds. If I got a good burn out of the 7.5" barrel I could go up a little at a time from there and look for the best accurate comfortable load. I understand a firm crimp would be in order. My concern was not to start right off with a hot load and the difference in all the data
told me to stop and ask.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Look to me like you pretty well nailed it!

CDOC

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

well in my Redhawk, with 300 grains max was when the primers flattened out
My buddy tried 'em in his '29, we had to go home and pound the brass out with a dowel:mrgreen:

[GaryN]

Gray Wolf, 18 grains sounds like a good place to start. Nice to see the NRA banner under your name.

[Leadmelter]

For my birthday, my wife bought me Propellent Profiles from Wolfe. I have not have time to read the whole book but a casual glance shows that the formulation and manufacturing process is not the same as the old powders.
Always check with current data.
For my .02, I use 19.5 grs with a 250 gr K and I like it.
Leadmelter
MI

[Larry Gibson]

Gray Wolf

7 1/2" barrel sounds like a Ruger? Anyways I've been shooting 22 gr 2400 (Hercules and Alliant) for many years under 240 - 255 gr commercial cast and my own 429421s and in the last 10 years the RCBS 44-250-K. I've also extensively pressure tested that classic Keith load in a Contender barrel (closed breach with short throat). It is at the top end of the SAAMI MAP for the 44 magnum at 34 - 35,000 psi. I've yet to have it exceed that MAP with older Hercules or newer Alliant 2400. BTW; the only difference between the two is typical lot to lot variation. 18 gr is a good starting load and I don't hesitate to work up to 22 gr in Rugers letting the revolver tell me what is max between the two. S&Ws many times give extraction problems at 20+ gr because the extractor doesn't push the well expanded cases straight out and S&W no longer burnishes the chambers smooth as in days gone by.

I shoot the 22 gr classic Keith load in my Ruger 50th FT and my Colt Anaconda as standard magnum loads.

Larry Gibson

[runfiverun]

sam you have to take into account.
the bullets seating depth.
it's jaxket thickness.
and bearing length.
i see hornady's data as almost alway's universally lower with their xtp bullet because of seating depth/bearing surface.

i would be very comfortable with your 18 gr start load
17 grs leaves a bit of unburned behind for me unless i use a mag primer.
and i have never been tempted to go much beyond 19.5-20.0 grs in anything i have with any boolit.
if i want more than that [which i don't in a short mag] i switch powders and continue.

[gray wolf]

Thank you for all the help, it's always appreciated.
The pistol is the replacement gun that ruger sent me for the black hawk hunter they couldn't repair.
They offered me whatever I wanted, or my money back. I had mentioned a while ago that I had sold an old black powder rifle in order to get the hunter, Even swap with no cash outlay, Without doing that I could never on gods green earth afford to get a pistol. I told them after three tries I did not want another black hawk hunter. I also told them I didn't want my money back, I just wanted a nice pistol that I could go out and have some nice shooting with.
I ask them about a red hawk, they said sure, no problem. Then they said it would be a long time till they made another run of red hawk hunters and how about a Super red hawk 7.5"
I said fine and they sent me a super red hawk, it's a nice pistol, BIG, but nice.
So to shorten the story, the pistol I will be shooting is a super red hawk. I understand they are a strong hand gun, and supposed to be accurate. the bore slugs at .4295 and the throats will not let a .432 bullet pass through, a .4305 is a tad loose so I think .431 should be OK.
That's why I had asked you guys if I could shoot some old ammo that was sized .432 out of the smaller .431 throats and I was told they would squeeze down and not create an unsafe condition.
OK, enough of that, So it looks like 18 grains will be my start load for the 2400 and the 240 grain bullet in the super red hawk.

[white eagle]

My load books, ( not current ) and my searching-- seem to show a bunch of different load data for a 240 grain bullet in a 44 Mag. with 2400 powder ( alliant )
Jacketed or PB is OK, I always start at the low end.
So far I have found anyplace from
Hornady
17.4------ 1100 FPS 21.2------ 1550 FPS
Sierra
19 ------ 1269 FPS 21-------- 1434 FPS
Lyman
16 -------980 FPS 23 -------1460 FPS

18.5 -----1078 FPS 20.6------1248 FPS

19.4 -----974 FPS 23.4------1232 FPS

All that is for a 240 grain bullet. What the heck is the
Min. Max. for 2400 and a 240 grain bullet ?
I need a safe Minimum and a safe Maximum.

Pick one and go with it
but ultimately your gun will tell you what the max is

[Larry Gibson]

You will have no problems with any load of 2400 from 18 gr to 22 gr under any 240 - 255 gr cast bullet out of your Super Redhawk. Suggest you try 10-12 rounds of 18, 19, 20, 21 and 22 gr and let the Redhawk tell you what it and you are comfortable with and shoot well? Then you can tweak the load +/- .5 gr.

Larry Gibson

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Gray Wolf,

Nope, your wrong here! The Super RUGER RedHawk is not a strong pistol, it is a really really really strong pistol! :kidding:

With my 5.5" standard RedHawk, my go to load is a 310gr LBT LFN at a velocity of just over 1300fps.

Takes a lick'in and keeps on tick'in! :mrgreen:

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Mal Paso]

...... how about a Super red hawk 7.5"
I said fine and they sent me a super red hawk, it's a nice pistol, BIG, but nice.
So to shorten the story, the pistol I will be shooting is a super red hawk. I understand they are a strong hand gun, and supposed to be accurate. the bore slugs at .4295 and the throats will not let a .432 bullet pass through, a .4305 is a tad loose so I think .431 should be OK.


Fantastic! Glad they came through for you! Larry is right on the loads. Let us know how it shoots. You can load 6 at a time now, better get your reloading speed up.

[Willbird]

If you have a general look at some data they do not seem to be going for magnum velocities with cast bullets, more of a midrange velocity IMHO.

[44man]

My go to load was always 22 gr of 2400 with all my Rugers and the 429421 and I also used it in my first 29.
Manuals have to take into account all the different jacketed bullets too.

[1Shirt]

Lots of words of wisdom here based on experiance. Elmer had it right I think!
1Shirt!

[Sasquatch-1]

I load 21 grns of 2400 to use in my Desert Eagle just to make the gun work right. I have fired these in my SBH without any problems other then the recoil. I do not like to shoot a steady diet of these in the SBH, not because I am afraid of damaging the gun, because I am tired of the pain in the hand. OK, call me a wimp if you want.:oops:

[Larry Gibson]

A "wimp" sasquatch.........is nothing sacred anymore..........

Larry Gibson

[45-70 Chevroner]

I just had to get the book out. My Lyman 49th addition shows 18.5 gr's as a starting load for two boolits, a 245 gr PB and a 240 gr. PB. My self I have used as little as 16 gr's with no problems. That was in my pre Model 29 4 screw. I'm a wimp also but I'm also going on 72 years old. Some of you older guys can probably handle the big boomers, but I learned a long time ago that they are not as much fun.

[MtGun44]

You ask if squeezing a .432 down to a .431 "not create an unsafe condition".

LOL! I think you could pack the cylinder full of TNT and set it off and not hurt a Super Redhawk. :bigsmyl2:

Of course, I am exaggerating - but these are REALLY stoutly made guns and starting around 18 gr will get
you a good load, and that pistol will be safe all the way up to Elmer's 22 gr load, and probably a lot more.

You have the luxury of adjusting your load over a wide range with the results on target and recoil level as your
controls, not whether you will damage the gun.

Best of luck.

Bill

[gray wolf]

I shot a couple in the driveway yesterday, 18grains with a 240 grain bullet.
Just few unburned flake in the cylinders and just few in the barrel, very few, I could count them.
It was a mild load for me to shoot, I don't need more than 1150 --1250 FPS and these were not there yet. I think I will probly settle in some place around 19.9 to 20 grains. But the gun and targets will make the final decision.
I must say the super red hawk is one heck of a hoot to shoot. The trigger wasn't bad but it had just enough crunch and creep to drive me crazy, A little careful stoning and it's all better now. I must have a clean breaking light trigger.

[Mal Paso]

Wolf has reduced power trigger springs too.

Any lead in the cylinders?

19g gives me 1250 fps with the current powder lot from a 6"

[gray wolf]

1250 would work fine for me,
I know there are other trigger springs available and shims also.
Thing is I can't get the trigger group to drop out. Got the hammer spring out--no problem,
hammer out --no problem, But the little thingy you press to drop the trigger group won't budge and I didn't want to force anything and break something. So I put that on the back burner till I see whats what. Maybe I didn't press in the right spot.

[randyrat]

Use a bent Z shaped (kinda like a z shape) screw driver or configure it to fit inside the frame to push against that grip to release the trigger group. Someone sells them here I believe it is GP100. I got mine from him and it works like a charm.
My SRH is a dual purpose tool, it shoots 44 mags and it doubles as a self defense hammer. I enjoy shooting it a lot. I also use a lot of 2400...
If you want a load that will shake your fillings loose try a 315 gr boolit with 21.5 gr of H110, work it up though, your Retinas will never be the same. Proceed with caution and use 2 hands.

[onehousecat]

I've used 18.0 gr. of 2400 for light loads in plinking. They are a lot of fun. In IHMSA events, I used the old Keith load. It would turn over the rams in the 200 meter events.