FFL Question

[Gliden07]

Since I live in the Commi Wealth of Mass I always had to register my firearms. Forgive my ignorance but could someone explain all the hoopla over the universal registration to me? All the firearms I see for sale here the seller always wants an FFL dealer, isn't that registration of the firearm?? I know state laws vary but??

[ffg]

I meet a gent that was in Holland when the Nazis occupied his town . He said the Germanys simply went to the courthouse , acquired the list of registered firearms, and told
the townsfolk to have their registered guns there the next day, or their family would be executed .
He said everyone complied .
I have never forgotten his story .

[41 mag fan]

Called freedom here in IN. I go on ingo.com and everyone who lists on there wants to see an IN drivers license to do a ftf sale. We govern ourselves and dont need a gov't law telling us what we should and shouldn't do

[Blacksmith]

Gliden07
In much of the country within the same state so called face to face transfers, buying and selling or gifts, can be completed without the aid of an FFL. Interstate transfers fall under federal law and that requires an FFL (Shall Not Be Infringed has been forgotten).

The implication for most of the country is I won't be able to give my grandson a .22 rifle for Christmas without an FFL transfer which around here cost $25 to $75 each and since they are to young I would have to transfer it to their father who would have to transfer it to them, if still legal, when they are of age. This also leaves a federal and often state paper trail of who own what specific firearms and how many which makes confiscation easy. Do you think the Nazis in Holland would buy the boating accident story or would just shoot the family of anyone who did not turn in every gun on the list?

[Gliden07]

Gliden07
In much of the country within the same state so called face to face transfers, buying and selling or gifts, can be completed without the aid of an FFL. Interstate transfers fall under federal law and that requires an FFL (Shall Not Be Infringed has been forgotten).

The implication for most of the country is I won't be able to give my grandson a .22 rifle for Christmas without an FFL transfer which around here cost $25 to $75 each and since they are to young I would have to transfer it to their father who would have to transfer it to them, if still legal, when they are of age. This also leaves a federal and often state paper trail of who own what specific firearms and how many which makes confiscation easy. Do you think the Nazis in Holland would buy the boating accident story or would just shoot the family of anyone who did not turn in every gun on the list?

Now I understand!! So until the Government can actually get the authority to confiscate all guns, it wants to compile a master list of who owns what and make money off it until they bang on your door to take it!! Sounds about right!!

[starmac]

It has been years since I have bought a new gun, The day I have to start going through an ffl for a ftf sale, will be the day I decide I have enough guns to last out my time here.
As far as giving to kids or grandkids, that has pretty much done and as for the rest, some laws are meant to be ignored as far as I am concerned.

[Down South]

Under current law, most states don't register firearms even new ones. If you purchase a firearm from a gun shop who will have an FFL, the paperwork must be completed for a background check. It's not registration.
Most states still allow FTF sales without any paperwork.

[cbrick]

Universal background checks = National data base of every firearm and every firearm owner!

Then What? What's next when the government knows where every single firearm and firearm owner in the country is?

What could possibly be the reason for the government wanting such a data base? The very purpose of the Second Amendment is to protect us from the people that want this data base.

Ask yourself this question . . . Just what is it that government has in mind that they feel they cannot do with an armed society?

You may be accustomed to your rights being so severely infringed but most of us (yet) aren't and will not take it with our tails tucked between our legs, hat in hand saying yes, please take our disgusting freedom and replace it with the joys of socialism. Please comrade, help us.

Rick

[sundog]

I'll suppose out load again. It would not surprise me one bit if the daily records produced through NICS are being kept instead of destroyed.

[Hamish]

I'll suppose out load again. It would surprise me one bit if the daily records produced through NICS are being kept instead of destroyed.

ATF/BATFE has been illegally compiling what they call "Information" by copying everything out of FFL records, and the legal wrangling has been going on for years.

They may not know where ALL the guns are, but you can bet the farm they know where a great majority are.

[Down South]

I'll suppose out load again. It would surprise me one bit if the daily records produced through NICS are being kept instead of destroyed.
I've been wondering the same thing myself for some time now. It would not surprise me in the least.
I'm still buying guns though. I bought one about a month ago and another is on order. They are in my boat. I'm gonna take em for a boat ride soon.
I bought a lever gun from one of our members a couple months ago in a FTF deal. I like those deals. No paperwork.

[badgeredd]

Note the quote of Thomas Jefferson in my signature line. Says it all, IMHO.

Edd

[runfiverun]

they aren't looking at the here and now.
you work on the smallest inconvenience to the current owners to get them to go along with it.
even those couple of guns you have tucked away will eventually see daylight
then in 25 or so years....
you put another small inconvenience in there for the new owners.
NOW you know where all the guns are...
besides if you have one on the big list you have more [shrug] don't matter.
your kid will register it when you die,or your grandson,whichever.

[Gliden07]

I'll suppose out load again. It would not surprise me one bit if the daily records produced through NICS are being kept instead of destroyed.

I'm sure this is true, especially after 911 and the formation of "Homeland Security". That organization was up and running in a year or less!! You can't tell me they didn't have that organization waiting in the "wings" to come and save us, the minute something happened. The Government doesn't move that quick!!

[smokeywolf]

As usual, cbrick sees the situation very clearly. A database of firearms, owners, and their location is necessary only as a precursor to the Federal Government's (or the U.N.'s) move to completely disarm the American public. Once the second amendment has been sufficiently limited to the point that Americans lack the firepower to resist a complete and total disarmament, how long will it take before the Federal Government announces to the American people that after careful and thorough scientific study, they have determined that the Constitution of the United States is outdated and no longer applicable to today's global environment. Therefore, the government, with the significant input from the U.N. will undertake a complete rewrite to produce not a new U. S. Constitution, but a World Constitution?

I will never understand the public's willingness to give away their right (and responsibility) to protect themselves from a government out of control.

Just got my train of thought completely derailed.

Went elsewhere on the internet to research something related to my post. Ended up here: http://www.democratichub.com/posts/8359/default.aspx .
With regard to my sentence above, "I will never understand the public's", I still don't understand, but I do now realize that Democrats are completely incapable of forming a rational thought.
I realize that not all democrats suffer from this handicap. However, in this case I'm afraid that probably 71 million bad apples have apparently spoiled a barrel containing 72 million.

Those of you on this site who are Democrats, I'm sorry if my opinion offends you, but you should have listened to your parents when they warned you about keeping company with people of questionable reputation or integrity; it's called guilt by association.

Moderators, if my opinions are too inflammatory or offensive, I understand if you choose to remove my post.

smokeywolf

[cbrick]

I'll suppose out load again. It would not surprise me one bit if the daily records produced through NICS are being kept instead of destroyed.

Wouldn't surprise you? It would shock the h*ll out me to find out their not. Illegally but when has that ever stopped them?

Rick

[montana_charlie]

could someone explain all the hoopla over the universal registration
The current legislation being pushed is aimed at 'universal background checks' ... not universal registration.
The current background check system (NICS) is supposed to deny guns to people who have 'problems' in their histories that make them untrustworthy with a gun.
Among a good sized list of things the system is supposed to keep tabs on, there is the mental health of the prospective buyer.
The background check is supposed to scan the data for any adjudicated mental health problems, and certain ones will cause the system to deny the sale.

The data in the system is submitted by the states, and the value of NICS depends on the accuracy of that data.

Currently, there are 23 states that have (each) only submitted 100 mental health reports since NICS was started.
17 states have only submitted 4 reports, and 2 states have never reported a mental health problem on anybody.
So, the mental health part of the NICS system is being seriously under used, and there are many other areas where it fails to do it's job as designed.

When a request for a background test is submitted, the information the buyer submits is compared to what is in the data bank.
Discrepancies will cause a denial AND the fraudulent answer actually constitutes a federal offense.
There have been more that 17,000 denials based on fraudulent information submissions, but only 44 have been prosecuted.
When asked (by the NRA) why the system is not being utilized to prosecute the lawbreakers who try to buy guns with lies, Biden said they don't have enough time to do that.

So, the system is not being fully utilized, and lawbreakers are not being prosecuted, and only gun sales through registered dealers are currently run through NICS.

If ALL gun sale must be run through NICS, that will add (an estimated) 40% to the overall load.
It won't catch any criminals because they won't even consider obeying the requirement, and the only people enduring the extra hassle will be people who are not a problem to start with.

On top of that, the increase in traffic will probably crash the system ... which can't even do all of it's job now.

So, there is no good reason to institute universal background checks except that it 'increases the government's ability to collect data'.
We don't trust that extra data collected to be discarded soon after each sale, as the law currently requires, but will (instead) become the basis for 'universal registration' ... a totally different breed of cat.

So, the hoopla works out to this:

Our way says, Improve use of the current system to make it work properly so lawbreakers can be prosecuted ... and the improved mental health data might even solve some of the problems leading to mass shootings.
Wayne LaPierre refers to this as "improved" background checks.

Their way, "universal" background checks, increases costs to run the system, makes it slower or causes it to crash, does not improve enforcement of current law, and only makes it tougher for the common citizen to obey the law while limiting his ability to sell or trade guns with friends, neighbors, and family.
In addition, there is the 'increased data collection' consideration ... proposed by a group that we already have little trust in.


CM

[mpmarty]

Those days of strife and turmoil everyone worries about, they're here.

[cbrick]

The current legislation being pushed is aimed at 'universal background checks' ... not universal registration. CM

Charlie, keep telling yourself that over and over and over.

There simply can't be any doubt that what the hard left wants far more than the gun bans is a national data base of ALL FIREARMS, ALL FIREARM OWNERS. That is their goal. Any gun bans they can get now are nothing more than frosting on the cake.

Universal back ground checks sounds wonderful, we can stop criminals and nut jobs from getting guns. One problem, it doesn't work. Most whacko’s steal their guns, a back ground check would stop nothing. Oh and another problem, the NRA has been pushing hard for over 20 years to get mental cases included in NICS and has been stymied at every turn, it ain't gonna happen. And gee, yet another little problem, for all of the NICS checks that have been done to date with something like 144,000 supposed criminals being stopped from purchasing a firearm the Federal government has prosecuted a whopping 44 cases and won only 30 of those.

Yep Charlie, you keep telling yourself this ain’t a registration scheme. Repeat after me . . . Not a registration scheme me . . . Not a registration scheme me . . . Not a registration scheme me . . . Not a registration scheme me . . . Not a registration scheme.

The not at all fine-stien bill is simply a smoke screen, the cool aid drinkers will be so relieved that it didn't happen the registration scheme won't sound so bad. The national data base is what they are after.

Rick

[45nut]

Those braying loudest about protecting the 2nd also happen to be the ones infringing first,, those sheriffs that on one hand declare you must obey the feds when it comes to begging the cleo for "permission" to own a nfa weapon,,and you can bet those sheriffs keep track of who and what they sign off on and those they reject as well.
When the time is right those sheriffs that partake in no knock raids for the current drug war will be quite happy to partake in the funding for the war on the 2nd as well. That is the reality of it,, the fed money is the king of govt and all those that prostitute themselves for the money will not find any limits on those last liberties we so cherish.
The Sheriffs have local lists,, just like referred to in Holland and should not be admired until and unless the lists are publicly destroyed lest they come into the possession of unsavory types like the Journal in NY. Keeping records of pistol permit holders and handing them over seems to be just fine for the police state of today.

[shooter93]

Along with a National database for confiscation their goal is complete abolishment of the 2A. make no mistake about it. For all the talk that this or that won't pass....they will pass something......the camel moves a bit more inside the tent. They have goals, they are very long term thinkers. They are trying to outwait us. That our numbers will get smaller as the "educate" the kids on the evils of guns. This is the most critical time in our lives for the preservation of the Constitution. decide which side you are on and prepare for the worst imaginable.

[45nut]

That the Con-stitution has failed,and even enabled the current situation exposes it to be yet another false idol warned about in the Bible, govt induced idolatry served to us all in the schools managed by govt.
The very same govt that claimed the authority to ban high capacity toilets and light bulbs claims the right to ban anything else by their decree and without our vote was secured by judge roberts and all those other lifetime paycheck judges under the con-stitution within article one,section eight, clause seventeen.
Oh, don't watch out for the vipr teams of dhs because they are only looking for bad guys. If you are looking for a example of someone decreed insane look at Ezra Pound. He was locked up in a mental hospital for over 30 years without ever being charged or getting a trial on orders of FDR. The NDAA was in effect then as it is now, same as under Lincoln, another "hero" as mandated by govt schooling text books.

[xs11jack]

Beside the 4473's each state that has issued Concealed Carry Permits has all of that information on who owns firearms. Thats who they will go after first,but the rest will not be far behind.
Jack

[cbrick]

The current legislation being pushed is aimed at 'universal background checks' ... not universal registration. CM

That made you feel warm & fuzzy didn't it Charlie? The above quote fell right out of your head, very first sentence in post #17 in fact.

Rick

[TreeKiller]

The current legislation being pushed is aimed at 'universal background checks' ... not universal registration.
The current background check system (NICS) is supposed to deny guns to people who have 'problems' in their histories that make them untrustworthy with a gun.
Among a good sized list of things the system is supposed to keep tabs on, there is the mental health of the prospective buyer.
The background check is supposed to scan the data for any adjudicated mental health problems, and certain ones will cause the system to deny the sale.

The data in the system is submitted by the states, and the value of NICS depends on the accuracy of that data.

Currently, there are 23 states that have (each) only submitted 100 mental health reports since NICS was started.
17 states have only submitted 4 reports, and 2 states have never reported a mental health problem on anybody.
So, the mental health part of the NICS system is being seriously under used, and there are many other areas where it fails to do it's job as designed.

When a request for a background test is submitted, the information the buyer submits is compared to what is in the data bank.
Discrepancies will cause a denial AND the fraudulent answer actually constitutes a federal offense.
There have been more that 17,000 denials based on fraudulent information submissions, but only 44 have been prosecuted.
When asked (by the NRA) why the system is not being utilized to prosecute the lawbreakers who try to buy guns with lies, Biden said they don't have enough time to do that.

So, the system is not being fully utilized, and lawbreakers are not being prosecuted, and only gun sales through registered dealers are currently run through NICS.

If ALL gun sale must be run through NICS, that will add (an estimated) 40% to the overall load.
It won't catch any criminals because they won't even consider obeying the requirement, and the only people enduring the extra hassle will be people who are not a problem to start with.

On top of that, the increase in traffic will probably crash the system ... which can't even do all of it's job now.

So, there is no good reason to institute universal background checks except that it 'increases the government's ability to collect data'.
We don't trust that extra data collected to be discarded soon after each sale, as the law currently requires, but will (instead) become the basis for 'universal registration' ... a totally different breed of cat.

So, the hoopla works out to this:

Our way says, Improve use of the current system to make it work properly so lawbreakers can be prosecuted ... and the improved mental health data might even solve some of the problems leading to mass shootings.
Wayne LaPierre refers to this as "improved" background checks.

Their way, "universal" background checks, increases costs to run the system, makes it slower or causes it to crash, does not improve enforcement of current law, and only makes it tougher for the common citizen to obey the law while limiting his ability to sell or trade guns with friends, neighbors, and family.
In addition, there is the 'increased data collection' consideration ... proposed by a group that we already have little trust in.


CM
Never happen to include any mental issues think HEPPA laws.

[smokeywolf]

TreeKiller,

What are HEPPA laws?

smokeywolf

[Duckiller]

cbrick is wrong. Background check through FBI is not now creating a data base. Cal DOJ now registers all hande guns. Long gunswillbe registered in 2014 in Cal. 4473s can be used to create such a data base. Scan them into computers and sort and you have a massive unweilding data base.
Universalback ground checks are probably coming. It is the only way to insure that you are not transfering to a felon or mentally deficient person. Families and friend will still trage guns with no records. Not the end of the world. When I bought myfirst gun under the instant background check system I had heard all sorts of stories of mistaked identies and delayed gun purshases. AsI recall mycheck took less than 10 minutes with no problems. Of course I couldn't pick up the gun for 10 days since I live in Cal wit a 10 day waiting period. Background check to block felons and mental patients from purchasing firearms are fast. If they are used like they are in Cal to prevent dead beat dads from purshasing guns then it will take 10-15 days.
Remember we lost the last election and we may not be as powerful as we would like to be. We need to use what power we have to minimize new restrictions and make sure that they will accomplish a reasonable goal.

[captaint]

In Pennsylvania, I haven't bought a handgun in 40 years that wasn't registered to me. Gun show, gun shop, wherever, they all got registered. Period. There ain't no loophole in Pa. Mike

[cbrick]

cbrick is wrong. Background check through FBI is not now creating a data base.

Wrong Duck. That is not what I said, re-read the post.

What I said is that obummers universal background checks will most certainly be a national data base of all firearms and all firearm owners. And that has nothing to do with what is happening now.

There is nothing reasonable about violating the Constitution. There is nothing reasonable about socialism.

Rick

[GabbyM]

Here in Illinois. Since 1968 we have to fill out a blue state form for a FTF sale or transfer of a firearm. This law I believe also would include inheriting a firearm. But I may be wrong. Not like your average citizen even understands all the requirements. 1968 was forty-five years ago. So ask yourselves how many homes have illegal firearms passed down from uncle Tom. We are all a bunch of felons already. Just waiting for our beloved leader to send in the jack booted home guard. Obama and his movement have already not only campaigned for development of a home guard equal to our military but have promised to deliver it. This is why we Americans are purchasing one billion rounds of ammo per week. People aren’t stupid. Obama is upset about this. Since it is now obvious to him that we have a home guard already equal to our military. Just not under his political groups control.

[montana_charlie]

Yep Charlie, you keep telling yourself this ain’t a registration scheme. Repeat after me . . . Not a registration scheme me . . . Not a registration scheme me . . . Not a registration scheme me . . . Not a registration scheme me . . . Not a registration scheme.


That made you feel warm & fuzzy didn't it Charlie? The above quote fell right out of your head, very first sentence in post #17 in fact.

Rick
It would be pointless for to continue to participate in this thread.

From the wording of your second taunt, it's apparent that you read my initial response to your childishness before it was removed.
Since you (or one of the other whiners here) outrank me, our discussion of this topic would continue to be a one sided one.

Therefore, I will withdraw ...

CM

[cbrick]

Couldn't figure out what you were talking about, then realized your post was deleted. Not by me, I have no ability to do that but someone must have thought it pretty childish huh? Yep, I did read it and I do agree, a good laugh is a great way to start the day.

Rick

[220swiftfn]

In Pennsylvania, I haven't bought a handgun in 40 years that wasn't registered to me. Gun show, gun shop, wherever, they all got registered. Period. There ain't no loophole in Pa. Mike

Sure there is,....... buy it from a drug dealer......... no background check, no waiting period.........


.....hey!!!! I got it, they should make being illegal, illegal!!!!!!


Dan

[Blacksmith]

No because then all the illegal aliens would be illegal and couldn't get a job or drivers license or welfare or anything.