Laws about magazine manufacturing?

[theperfessor]

Are there any current federal laws regarding the manufacture of magazines? I am in a position where I will have access to a complete CNC machine shop, an injection molding machine, waterjet and a welding robot. No press brake, but I can make stamping/press dies and injection molds. Trying to decide on which way to go, mold some AR mags or stamp/weld them out of sheet metal. I also have an AR 30 round CAD file, plan to print one out on 3D printer.

Note: 30 round mags are legal in Indiana under state law.

I trust most of the opinions I read here, so tell me what you think. I do not own an AR so I have no ideas as to which is the lightest, most durable, etc. type of magazine.

I figure that as long as Brownells has a million gazillion magazines on back order and as long as there is no law against making them then there might be a little money in doing some "agile manufacturing".

Thanks for your response.

[xs11jack]

I don't think there are any laws against mags...by the way did you see the clip of a guy who's company wrote a program for the printers that print out plastic items, he printed a 30 AR-15 mag and fired it on the clip. Only thing he had to buy was the spring. He put the program on the public domain so that there would be thousands and thousands of copies that the government can't find and delete. Next comes a AR lower.
Jack

[theperfessor]

Yes, I have that file to try out.

[dlamp]

well unless you have one big plastic injection machine i don't see how you can mold 30rd mags. having to have to cam out a ruffly 6.750 core that has little draft on it

[MtGun44]

IMO, the original aluminum stamped, folded and spot welded mags are superior
mags. OTOH, the plastic injection molded ones are very popular now. As an
engineer, I am concerned about long term creep in polymers, especially in the
feed lips area when stored loaded for long periods. The biggest seller has a
'dust cover' that snaps onto the feed lips, and (just by coincidence - kidding,
I am fairly sure that "dust cover" is a "cover story" ) also takes all the stresses
off of the feed lips when in place. Aluminum feed lips will not creep.

Plastic molded followers makes sense, and it would be easy to copy the std
milspec ones out there.

Blanking aluminum sheets, pressing in the ribs (IIRC, the AR original GI aluminum
mags are two stamped halves spot welded at front and rear), folding the ends
(maybe same time as pressing ribs?), and need right and left halves and then
spot welding in a fixture is not too difficult for small scale production.

The big issue is economic. I have heard unproven reports that there are apparently
several complete sets of machinery and tooling to make AR mags that have been
produced by the government and passed around to various different minority
owners to produce milspec mags and get huge GI contracts. Apparently after a
while, these makers 'graduate' and the gear moves to a new minority company
for another government manufacturing setup. No idea if this is all true, partially
true or total BS. The fact is that there is a HUGE supply of mags at normal times,
enough to keep them selling nearly new condition at gun shows for $8-10 in
quantity. Also, I think they are gold anodized and then tumbled in moly
disulphide - probably on some kind of media like aluminum balls with
moly disulphide dust. I have read of the "solid film lubricant" in military
descriptions of the GI mags, they turn gold when worn enough and the
surface finish looks exactly the same as burnished moly disulphide.

I'd do a VERY detailed economic analysis before jumping into this one. Years
ago, when discussing small business economics with a successful small
manufacturer, I was told that if you cannot retail your product for 3X
your actual raw production cost you are doomed to insolvency.

Best of luck!

Bill

PS Call Brownells and ask if they would buy them and to what specs
and for how much $$.

[wv109323]

IIRC the AWB under Clinton regulated the manufacture of mags over 10 rounds.Under that law, There could be no more High capacity magazines made after a certain date. At the hint of a ban on High Capacity mags the manufacturers made as many as possible before the cutoff date. With the sunset of the AWB there was never a real shortage of some magazines just a price increase.
I would wait to see what shakes out of Congress before I would invest in the manufacture of magazines.

[shooterg]

Sounds like a good school shop project. Manufacturing and FREEDOM combined. Hey, sell us some with the Cast Boolits logo ! (I promise to only load boolit tipped cartridges in mine !)

[Wal']

If the access to the machinery is not costing you a lot, then I say go for it.

Hopeing the land of the free still exists & free enterprise still rule's.

[runfiverun]

a 10-15 rd magazine wouldn't need to be curved.
yep two halves spot welded together.
fold overs for the lips.
and fold overs for the bottom plate to slide into.
followers could be made too.
my origional followers were aluminum,or sheet steel also.
the springs would be where the work come in.

[Blammer]

some 20rn AR10 mags for Armalite rifles would be the ticket. :)

[Blacksmith]

Don't forget liability insurance.

[41 mag fan]

well unless you have one big plastic injection machine i don't see how you can mold 30rd mags. having to have to cam out a ruffly 6.750 core that has little draft on it

Better do a search and you'll realize why keith is called theperfessor

[41 mag fan]

Are there any current federal laws regarding the manufacture of magazines? I am in a position where I will have access to a complete CNC machine shop, an injection molding machine, waterjet and a welding robot. No press brake, but I can make stamping/press dies and injection molds. Trying to decide on which way to go, mold some AR mags or stamp/weld them out of sheet metal. I also have an AR 30 round CAD file, plan to print one out on 3D printer.

Note: 30 round mags are legal in Indiana under state law.

I trust most of the opinions I read here, so tell me what you think. I do not own an AR so I have no ideas as to which is the lightest, most durable, etc. type of magazine.

I figure that as long as Brownells has a million gazillion magazines on back order and as long as there is no law against making them then there might be a little money in doing some "agile manufacturing".

Thanks for your response.

Keith I myself like the plastic thermold mags for my AR's. If you need to borrow a 30 or 20 rd one for measurements let me know. Also you get into this project let me know and I can come help out on the weekends, if you'll be producing then

[Artful]

Currently no federal restrictions - lets work on the congress critters so it stays that way...

check out this thread
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=285655

I agree that if you build a magazine for some of the oddball rifles (SCAR, AR10's etc) you will have quite a following if your product is up to snuff.

[WILCO]

I would consult an Attorney. Go from there.

[lavenatti]

Why not make 7-round mags for NY?

Half the material costs and a pretty big market.

[km101]

Dont know about the legalities and the logistics, but I know what a perfectionist you are from having seen your work. You might drive yourself crazy trying to get this project perfect! :) But if you do decide to go for it, put me down for a dozen of your first run. I know they will be perfect!

[beagle]

How about a magazine adapter that would allow belt fed? Then we could do away with all of this capacity craze. Man, talk about ripping the liberals./beagle

[dakotashooter2]

If mag cap goes into effect I would think someone could make a few bucks refurbishing existing hi cap mags and/or converting existing 10 rnd mags to high cap. There might be a legal loophole since the mags , made before any new ban, essentially have a hi cap frame and were modified to accept only 10 rnds. (just stamp out the internal indents)

[shooterg]

With the prices 5 round/10 round mags are bringing on the site that must not be named, have to look serious at those !

[montana_charlie]

Why not make 7-round mags for NY?

Half the material costs and a pretty big market.
I'm not in New York, but I still have hope that the new laws there will not survive review by the courts.

If they DO stick, there will be a need for 7-round magazines for a ton of different models.
CM

[Blacksmith]

First guy on the block with 7 round mags should do well, if it is not overturned. Especially for some of the less common platforms that won't attract the attention of the large producers.

Also 10 rounds that clip together or stand alone mag clips (something to hold two or more magazines together for fast changes).

[rockrat]

Maybe you could make some 7 round mags, and 10 round mags, using a 20rnd body but just modifying the follower to only allow the lesser capacity. Possibly having some modification on the base of the mag, a lip, to where you could spot weld the floorplate to make it non-removable(permanent) so some enterprising individual wouldn't be able to remove the floorplate, take out the follower and cut off part of it to make a higher capacity mag(would be just awful).

I personally don't like 30's that much as its tough to shoot from a bench. I prefer 15's and 20's.

Right now, 10's cost more than 20's or 30's

[Beau Cassidy]

It isn't a serial numbered item and you aren't making firearms. As long as you aren't violating any patents I say go for it.

[Doc65]

During the 94 "AWB" it wasn't that higher cap mags couldn't be made, it was that it was illegal to sell to private individuals, they were sill legal for LE, etc. They were stamped with MFGR date as I recall and like others have said, I much prefer the OLD original 20's with AL followers...

[grimace1]

I would be very cautious. There could be a huge amount of liability attached to manufacturing mags. The first time some chucklehead loads the wrong caliber into one and blows there gun up, odds are you will be sued. As an earlier poster suggested, liability insurance would be a must. Be prepared for this to cost a fortune. Also, you should seriously consider setting up an LLC to protect yourself.

[Silver Eagle]

Wonders about the legality of a "flippy" 7 rounder. 7 round mag with a floor plate and you can flip it over and have another 7 rounds. Technically legal since only 7 rounds are available at a time. Can also make it so they clip together in case they complain.

[Mal Paso]

Manufacturers pretty well nailed down the 30rnd mag market before the panic. You need to set yourself apart, stir the imagination, with the first 500 round magazine. Que es muy macho?

[markshere2]

If I were to be inventing things, I would be inventing a 7 round magazine that a consumer could easily alter back to 30 round capacity.

[MtGun44]

Keith,

How about a 7 rd AR mag with an "available" replacement for the floor plate that is a extension so
it is 20 or 30 rds. Would need a new spring, too, I'm sure. With pistol mags, the available wall
thickness makes a joint design problematic, but perhaps not impossible. For ARs, the floorplate
is external, so joint thickness is irrelevant.

$0.10 royalty per mag, please :bigsmyl2:

Bill

[geargnasher]

Manufacturers pretty well nailed down the 30rnd mag market before the panic. You need to set yourself apart, stir the imagination, with the first 500 round magazine. Que es muy macho?

No. El "belt fed" es muy macho!

Gear

[leftiye]

Belt fed into short section which fits into mag well. Use spring to feed it, stops when short section is full. Eh? Have a catcher for clips.

[HATCH]

During the 1994 AWB the loophole on mags was parts.
I could buy a 30rd "spare parts" body.
Then I could purchase a rebuild kit that contained the rest of the parts.

What I would suggest if you went this route that you did not mark any of the parts.

There is no law that requires you to mark spare parts. Even the new NY law doesn't say a spare mag body has to be marked.

This is kinda like how in california you can purchase a mag kit but not the whole assembled mag......

[dakotashooter2]

From what I have read the proposed new law would close some of these loopholes. Anything that can readily be modified is out. That means the manufacturers could not use a spacer that could be removed or use an extended follower that could be modified. It also would prohibit clipping multiple mags together. I have a couple mags that have a plastic lower end thus not allowing any modification of the upper portion and I suspect that is what they are after. Most seem to limit capacity by detents in the mag istelf. If these type continue to be made one could realisticly grind these out weld over the manufacture date (required on new mags) and refinish and who would know.

I notice the other day that outside of the locking notches, my Ruger and Beretta mags they are almost identical, leaving me to believe that universal mags would be possible for some guns by putting multiple locking notches on them.

[popper]

Plastic mag manuf. have gone to a separate lip section with split lower sides to solve the lip deforming problem. Alum. is tricky to work with, steel is easier. Stamping isn't hard but alignment and assembly is the $$. Folding machine required also.You can design the springs and get someone to make them for you or just buy standard ones.

[ReloaderEd]

Personally I would like to see someone manufacture 4 or five round magazines for hunting in some states and maybe even a magazine for single rounds to be loaded in for CMP matches i.e., for the AR15/16, M14, M1A1. Be safe

[dakotashooter2]

If this goes through I love the idea of a 5 rnd mag built on a 20 or 30 rnd mag frame.... It will keep the enforcement guys running in circles........LOL

[JeffinNZ]

This is interesting as I have been thinking about the same for here in NZ. We need permission from the police to import 'high' capacity magazines and it is quite unlawful in my opinion. The thing is that most shooters won't challenge the police on the issue.

[Blacksmith]

Jeff
Could you import a low capacity magazine and parts that if assembled could change it to a higher capacity?

[Silver Eagle]

Would not doubt if some of the manufacturer's already have plans designed up for an X round magazine to comply with the new laws. Just waiting to release them after some of the ruckus is over. After all, if they release them now, the politician's will just come up with something new to ban.
A single shot adapter should be an easy build for most arms. I have been planning on getting one for my bolt-action CZ 455 22lr.

[captain-03]

How about a magazine adapter that would allow belt fed? Then we could do away with all of this capacity craze. Man, talk about ripping the liberals./beagle

I really like the way you think!!

[Wal']

How about a magazine adapter that would allow belt fed? Then we could do away with all of this capacity craze. Man, talk about ripping the liberals./beagle

Have to agree with Captain-03 & Beagle.

If this was possible, it would blow all the anti clip/magazine objectors out of the water, a winner for the good people.

[HATCH]

But i think belt fed is banned in NY

[Springfield]

Can't have more than 10 linked together in California either.

[375RUGER]

some 20rn AR10 mags for Armalite rifles would be the ticket. :)

Now you're talking. Put me on the GB.

[horsesoldier]

I need some for my dpms lr-308 as well!