a new cast bullet design for inlines and lyman fast twist great plains hunters.

[johnson1942]

i have never been satisfied with sabots or any over the counter bullets for 1/28 twist barrels that most inlines have or the 1/32 twist for lymans great plains hunters. i wanted a harder hitting bullet that has extreem accracy and i can cast my self. here it is, it is cast of pure lead, shoots to extreem accuracy and hits real hard. i have tested it with 110 grains of 2f goex black powder and it is again very accurate. it hits hard because it weighs 533 grains. this makes it more powerful than the sharps 50/90 straight. the back round part is .490 and is patched like a round ball. the front part is the same size as the bore top of lands and is a bore rider. i havent tried it with any other powder than black but their is no reason that it wouldnt shoot well with them. i would suggest pyrodox as the pressures are close to black. i wouldnt recommend more that 110 grains of powder. this bullet was consistantly put in the middle of a 3 inch circle at 100 yards with my great plain hunter with its 1/32 twist and my own custom sidelock with a 1/28 twist barrel. it grouped a 1 inch group with open sights. im not going to market them, just shoot them and share the blue print with any one who wants to make a mould like this bullet. any questions post here or contact me on private messages. this bullet will give you the freedom of casting your own and even shooting target with it at the cost of casting it. thanks






59732

[horsesoldier]

How easy are they to load? Thats pretty awesome.I have the fast twist GPR as well

[johnson1942]

the same as a patched round ball.

[johnson1942]

horsesoldier: check your private messages

[rhbrink]

That's a really good idea some original thinking there, good work! Have you recovered any I would be curious as to how the rear portion is handling the impact of the powder. I would be concerned that the rear part of the taper would smash up some and not be consistant but if your are getting the accuracy claimed it must not be a problem. I think that you have solved the problem on boolits sliding down the barrel while carrying too.

Thank you very much for sharing with us.

Richard

[johnson1942]

rhbrink: i havent recoved any bullets yet but i sure what you have said is true. their will be bump up. however the bullet is centered and the same load used every time so i supect it is the same bump up every time. my purpose was to get away from commercial bullets, accracy, and to be able to cast them my self. i also really like knock down power. reliability is important also. i think i have achieved all of that. roger

[johnson1942]

sorry the answer is worded wrong i wanted accracy and the rest, not get away from them. sorry roger

[newton]

Well those sure do look good. Glad you were able to get that mold made. I really like the idea. I have to wonder if it could also be adjusted for a lighter weight. I know some guys that shy away from the heavy boolits even though their knockdown power is unmatched.

But a design like this that incorporates the use of patches instead of sabots or paper is very nice. I'm always excited when a plan comes together for someone like this.

[johnson1942]

newton: want to try a couple in your 1/28 twist inline? if so i will send you a few.

[garbear]

Any leading? Do use a standard comercial patch? or do you cut your own patch at the muzzle after the bullet pushed down unti flush with the bore? please post more results as they come. always amazed at the great ideas here.
Garbear

[johnson1942]

no leading. shot it alot yesterday. settled on 80 grains of 2f goex. less recoil even tighter accuracy and a cleaner barrel to clean between shots. will stick with that powder load. i have some 7 thousands tight woven linen and i cut a couple of hundred round patches one night and greased them with rooster paper patch lube. getting to love this bullet as it gives me all what i wanted from it. got tired of shooting at a small bulls eye at 100 yards so put up a water filled milk jug and blew it apart first shot with a center shot at 100 yards. i figure a well placed shot on a elk will put it down with ease. i have another mountain man custom i made that needs a barrel. think i will have douglas make a 1/28 twist .50 cal 35 and 1/2 inch long for that one and shoot the same bullet in that one also. have to sell something first, rotation of money. thanks for the interest.

[Good Cheer]

Wow. That's just awesome.

[garbear]

who did the mold for you?
Garbear

[johnson1942]

brooks moulds out of montana

[johnson1942]

i have to do a follow up because of the interest here and my private messages and if some one is going through the expense of a mould i want to make sure it isnt money wasted. make the front bore rider band 1 to 2 thousands under the top of your lands size in diam. the gun i made it for was .50 on the spot. so the band was resized by me to .498. i then knarled it up to .504 to .505. you dont have to have an expensive knarler to knarl them up in front. 2 good large sharp flat files will work just as good. lay the bullet cross ways on the flat file and with slight pressure with the second file roll that band up and down the file a little it will be knarled up. then lube them with alox, i did that to day and they went down the barrel even smoother. just put alox on the knarled part. also if you have a .54 1/32 twist lyman you can make a mould for that and it would even hit harder than a .50 the bullet sizes for a .54 1/32 twist lyman would be bore rideing band .539. the round back part that takes a patch would be .530 the length would be 1.25 long it should weigh 600 or more grains. use only patches behind it that are ten thousands thick. this bullet doesnt need a thick patch. precut the patches and dont make the patches to large of a diam. i am so excited about this bullet every time i load and shoot it that im going to have another barrel made for another mountain man 1/2 stock i have waiting for a barrel. if i ever run accross a good used lyman great plains hunter in .54 and 1/32 twist and the price is right i may pick that up also. with this bullet and that bore anything in north america could drop before it. also if anyone wants a blue print made for their cal and faster twist just private message me the cal size and the twist of the barrel and i will draw you up a blue print for the mould maker. the over size knarling works a lot better that a solid lead front driveing band. pure lead goes down too hard. i place the bullet base first on the muzzle and very gently tap it into the muzzle flush, patched. i then use a roundball short starter to go some more in. i have a good range rod that sets it on the powder.

[newton]

roger, I would like to try them sometime. But hold off for now. I got so many irons in the fire its ridiculous. Plus its coming up on time for some gardening so I'll have even less time. Hate to see boolits just sit around.

[newton]

Hey, just a thought. If you find yourself twiddling your thumbs, think of a way to combine the powder and the patch all in one for quick follow up shots. I bet it would be fairly easy with this design.

[Fishman]

That is really interesting and very original! It seems too heavy to stabilize in a 1:38 twist like my thunderhawk. I'm wondering if you could cut back on the weight up front with a hollowpoint. Of course then it would look like a Lyman slug loaded backwards!

I really like reading about such outside the box thinking.

[johnson1942]

the 1/38 twist is to slow for this bullet as is at 1.2 long. if it was 1 inch long it would work in your rifle

[wgr]

wonder if it would shoot good in my 1-24 twist or 1-20

[johnson1942]

sorry for the 1/24 you would need a bullet about 1.4 long and for the 1/20 1.5. i have 2ea. 1/23 twist 50/s and they would be in the black one round and the next a flyer. to inconsistant. however this is just a blueprint for a shooter to copy and even modify for their own needs. i shoot a 700 grain paper patch in my 2 .50s with the 1/23 twist. you could buy bullets pure lead and swaged and not cast for paperpatching from buffalo arms. buy the heavyest .492 cupped base pure lead paper patch bullet they have for sale. 2 wraps of number nine paper and base of paper tucked in the cup. also buy from buffalo arms 60 thousands thick .50 cal firm fiber wads. use one between powder and base the the pp bullet. best to use real black powder with this bullet. the reason i developed this bullet my son wanted a in line 1/28 twist gun and he wants to hunt elk in co. some day with it. to comply with the law their i developed a bullet we could cast and have real accuracy and knock down power. this bullet has it. i also put a 1/28 custom barrel on a sidelock of mine. looks like a mountain mans gun but is a sleeper. i will use that in co. also. thanks for the interest.

[Rattus58]

i have never been satisfied with sabots or any over the counter bullets for 1/28 twist barrels that most inlines have or the 1/32 twist for lymans great plains hunters. i wanted a harder hitting bullet that has extreem accracy and i can cast my self. here it is, it is cast of pure lead, shoots to extreem accuracy and hits real hard. i have tested it with 110 grains of 2f goex black powder and it is again very accurate. it hits hard because it weighs 533 grains. this makes it more powerful than the sharps 50/90 straight. the back round part is .490 and is patched like a round ball. the front part is the same size as the bore top of lands and is a bore rider. i havent tried it with any other powder than black but their is no reason that it wouldnt shoot well with them. i would suggest pyrodox as the pressures are close to black. i wouldnt recommend more that 110 grains of powder. this bullet was consistantly put in the middle of a 3 inch circle at 100 yards with my great plain hunter with its 1/32 twist and my own custom sidelock with a 1/28 twist barrel. it grouped a 1 inch group with open sights. im not going to market them, just shoot them and share the blue print with any one who wants to make a mould like this bullet. any questions post here or contact me on private messages. this bullet will give you the freedom of casting your own and even shooting target with it at the cost of casting it. thanks






59732

I'm always interested in new bullets. I've got two types of rifles, 1/70-1/48 (muskets), and 1/18-1/24. In all of my guns, I size my bullets and I cast custom molds for all of them as well. Most of my bullets are based upon a Whitworth style (Lyman 457121) or variant in my .451's. Rapine made the bullet mold for me in my .504's and I've a gas check variant of those for my Austin-Haleck .500 barrel as well.

Here is what I believe about bullets... THIS IS MY OPINION. Buffalo bullets are inaccurate when compared to whitworth style (straight barrel/bearing) because the tapered base allows your bullet to cant in the bore. Soft lead doesn't in my opinion, once mashed onto the powder (wrong in my opinion again) align under acceleration, I believe that it conforms to its cant and stabilizes off kilter....

A bullet that slides down the bore onto the powder aligned and centered in the bore, starts off with advantage, in my opinion. The last thing I'll mention about this is that I pour weighted charges down a clean as I can bore each shot and then tamp an over powder wad onto the powder (walters)/ felt, cardboard, gasket materials, all seem to work and i use them for both ball and conical, and then just seat the bullet on the powder.

What I like about this idea is that it is essentially a round ball and with the patch, aligns in the bore. I think that helps with accuracy with any bullet and is an advantage over most loaded conicals. I'd not give it much of any long range benefit over a round ball just looking at its design, even though the Ballistic Coefficient is clearly better than a round ball by some factor, the weight offsets but also keeps momentum. As a deer round its looks a clear thumper to me.

My question would be though, have you shot a TC Maxi-Ball from your gun before embarking on this ambitious design of yours?

Much Aloha,

Tom

[Rattus58]

the 1/38 twist is to slow for this bullet as is at 1.2 long. if it was 1 inch long it would work in your rifle I'm curious about that comment. Sectional Density translates to inches if I'm remembering right about some of this stuff, and spin rate refers to stabilizing bullets over a given length, but doesn't that also assume a weight more or less of universal distribution?

Much Aloha... Tom

[johnson1942]

you sound like you know much more than i do but i have put my complete faith in the green hill formula and it has never failed me. 1 have 2 1/23 twist 50s which i shoot paperpatched 700 grain bullets in to extreem accracy. i tried this new 1.2 long 533 grain bullet in them and it shot just as i figured it would for a bullet too short for this twist, two bullets in the black and the third one a flier and i mean a flier. too fast a rotation for a 1.2 long bullet. this bullet was made to hunt to 300 yards in 1/28 twist barrel and 1/32 twist barrels and it will do good at that. your right, it aligns to center every time. the reason for the round base is the patched area wont slip. i wanted a big bullet that would load easy and would not slip and of course shoot accrately. i also wanted some thing that would leave me independent of commercially buying the expensive not so good bullets out their for fast twist inlines and lyman side locks. their is a well know commercial bullet maker who had me send him some bullets to test. who knows maybe he will like them and sell them in his catalog.i want nothing out of this but to give my self and others better choises for their guns. it is half way taditional also, closer to traditional than modern. it also should be allowed to hunt elk in those states that require a lead bullet in a .50 cal gun. blow smoke and have fun, johnson1942

[Rattus58]

you sound like you know much more than i do but i have put my complete faith in the green hill formula and it has never failed me. 1 have 2 1/23 twist 50s which i shoot paperpatched 700 grain bullets in to extreem accracy. i tried this new 1.2 long 533 grain bullet in them and it shot just as i figured it would for a bullet too short for this twist, two bullets in the black and the third one a flier and i mean a flier. too fast a rotation for a 1.2 long bullet. this bullet was made to hunt to 300 yards in 1/28 twist barrel and 1/32 twist barrels and it will do good at that. your right, it aligns to center every time. the reason for the round base is the patched area wont slip. i wanted a big bullet that would load easy and would not slip and of course shoot accrately. i also wanted some thing that would leave me independent of commercially buying the expensive not so good bullets out their for fast twist inlines and lyman side locks. their is a well know commercial bullet maker who had me send him some bullets to test. who knows maybe he will like them and sell them in his catalog.i want nothing out of this but to give my self and others better choises for their guns. it is half way taditional also, closer to traditional than modern. it also should be allowed to hunt elk in those states that require a lead bullet in a .50 cal gun. blow smoke and have fun, johnson1942

You put a lot of thought into the bullet. I am not anywhere near a ballistician, I am a shadetree shooter who likes accurate rifles and long heavy bullets and or Big Bore Muzzleloaders... :-) But getting to Greenhill, I think greenhill will tell you approximately what twist you more than likely need for a particular bullet at a minimum especially if its a lead bullet.

http://kwk.us/twist.html is an interesting calculator that I've not seen before today that you might enjoy as well. When I use greenhill for my muzzleloader as to what bullets I can acceptably shoot, I substitute 120 for the 150 in greenhill. That seems to work acceptably.

Much Aloha... Tom

[johnson1942]

i do about the same as you do. i use 150 but subtract 3 or 4 to get the twist to shoot good and far out. i use 150 if i want to be extreemly accurate out to 300 yards. i find that with round balls though one should use 120 like you do to get them to shoot really good without fuss. it is a proven formula one can rely on and again never has failed me. have fun. two things i really like when i shoot. the loud wap sound when you hit a deer or antalope in a lethal area, you know after the smoke clears it is down and didnt suffer. also i love to blow up water filled milk jugs that are capped at 100 plus yards. thanks for your input. johnson1942

[Rattus58]

i do about the same as you do. i use 150 but subtract 3 or 4 to get the twist to shoot good and far out. i use 150 if i want to be extreemly accurate out to 300 yards. i find that with round balls though one should use 120 like you do to get them to shoot really good without fuss. it is a proven formula one can rely on and again never has failed me. have fun. two things i really like when i shoot. the loud wap sound when you hit a deer or antalope in a lethal area, you know after the smoke clears it is down and didnt suffer. also i love to blow up water filled milk jugs that are capped at 100 plus yards. thanks for your input. johnson1942

Wap.... that would be like poleaxed:-D