Shortage of Primers/powder/brass etc. & Newbees and Novices

[1Shirt]

It is really interesting that fear has driven the American public into a firearms buying frenzy. In addition however is the less often noticed frenzy that appears to have overtaken the reloading segment of the population. Wanted some 7.62x54R Brass. Tried all of the usual dealers: No dice, and not only no 7.62x54R, not hardly any brass of anything common was/is available period. In addition the usual mail order dealers have ship delay notices running up to a month. This is true for primers, some powders, etc.etc.etc. Looks to me like we have not only regular reloaders buying for what ever reason, but also newbees and never before reloaded a round reloaders are buying. A friend of mine in AZ. was at the range the other day. He ran into a guy with a brand new AR15, unfired, who had never owned a firearm in his life, but was preparing for the run to the hills------just in case. I am frankly worried about this type of individual. He has every right to have the weapon, and ammo, but I sure do hope he has the ability and common sense to get proper training. Have to believe that there is more than a small percentage of this type of individual out there, and I have a strong concern for their safety, and the safety of those around them. I taught a lady to shoot her late husbands 9MM, spent considerable time and effort on safety, gun handling, and range work. I advised her to continue practice, and told her I would take her to the range any time she wanted. Bottom line, she was sitting in bed and shot her T.V. set, and then gave the gun to her neighboor.

There are many many city people, not raised in a shooting/hunting/military environment that need more than just minimal training and development. This is also true for the ladies (widowed/divorced/single, etc) who are now buying a gun for protection, being shown by a dealer how to load, and thats about the extent of their training. I know of two right now who have bought a revolver in the last two months, never shot it, and are probably more than a little bit afraid of it. Have offered to take these ladies shooting but they are reluctant to even try. It is an interesting time we live in, when people who never even thought of having a gun, are now buying for self protection.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[Love Life]

Yep. My mom called me today because her friend is trying to get started reloading. Her question to me from her friend was "What is the best powder? Blue Dot?"

My response was " For what? Powdering baby bottoms?" That was when she explained the situation of her friend getting into reloading. I told her to tell said friend to buy a reloading manual and read it 3 times THEN I would start answering questions.

It just kills me. There a manuals for reloading!!! People will spend a ton of cash on reloading equipment based off of what they hear is good or from the net, but they won't shell out $30.00 for the most essential piece of the reloading puzzle. You can always tell those guys because they hit the internet forums with the below question:

"I'm not new to reloading, and I swear I have loaded 10,000,000,000 rounds, but why is my bullet seated so deep?"

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok rant off.

[Gliden07]

The best Salesmen for the Gun Industry ever has been Obummer!! I agree somewhat with you guys but the one good thing about "New Gun owners" is there NEW GUN OWNERS and will hopefully join the fight for our Second Amendment rights! The more of us the better! But they do scare me. I was 5 or 6 when I shot my Dads 22 Browning Rifle. He taught me about gun safety being responsible etc... He didn't hand me a rifle and box of shells and say have at it!

[nhrifle]

New gun owners buying and shooting factory ammo with proper guidance are great and I welcome them all and encourage safety, but the newbie reloaders who are now getting into it because of the panic are beginning to frighten the daylights out of me. I've been reading about this here and elsewhere recently, and had my own experience with them just yesterday. I went to my gun store for some primers and gas checks and also to browse and drool. I overheard a patron talking to the store owner about a couple pistols he had just bought, a 9mm and a 45 ACP and that he was now shopping for all the goodies so he could load a bunch of ammo today. The owner, who reloads for a couple rifles but knows very little about pistol rounds, was doing his best to inform as to procedure and safety, but was clearly in over his head with the questions so I stepped in. I gave the customer some specific recommendations as to powder and bullets (he didn't want to load cast) and then asked, "You did buy a reloading manual to help when you start loading, right?" He told me that no, he had seen some stuff on a few forums online and felt he had the process pretty well in hand.

I was very good and kept all of my Darwin comments to myself and explained a few things about pressure and what happens in a fired cartridge and the potential risks involved. Thank goodness I had his attention at this point. I went over to the manual shelf and picked up a copy of Lee's loading manual and handed it to him. I showed him the beginning that has all the information a beginner needs and he thanked me. He left with that, along with some bullets and powder that were listed in the data section.

I am really hopeful that most of the newcomers are proceeding a little more informed than this chap was.

[geargnasher]

I was discussing this with my local range owner recently. He said business is picking up from steady to brisk at the firing range, requiring his direct supervision almost constantly as opposed to letting the "regulars" police themselves as usual. I asked about training classes, as the facility offers a variety of firearms training classes from tactical to SD and competitive shooting. He responded that the Concealed Carry courses have been at max capacity for the past two months, but no real increase in the basic self-defense and safety courses he regularly teaches. I mentioned that that sort of concerned me with the increase in new and first-time gun owners, he agreed heartily. Same with reloaders as several have pointed out: One thing the box stores still have plenty of is reloading manuals.

As much as I hate the concept more legislation, it almost makes sense to me that on the state level at least some legislation be passed requiring an 8-hour firearms safety course be passed before purchasing a gun. Texas requires a "hunter education" course be completed before a person born after 1974 can legally hunt, and that idea just galled me until I actually took the class. I'll say that it's a pretty good course, covering some good points of safety, UNcommon sense, game laws, conservation, hunting ethics, gun handling, situational awareness when hunting, etc. Myself and one other guy scored 100, but there were people who barely passed, a scary thought. If some sort of legislation arises that is geared toward passing a test to buy a gun I'll oppose it, but still, there are some people that really NEED a good mandatory sit-down-and-pay-attention class combined with some good hands-on range training before turned loose on the world with a gun.

Pay attention at the range, folks, it's a jungle out there.

Gear

[TXGunNut]

I spent the last couple of days over on The Firing Line in the reloading forum, my "old" stomping grounds. I may be a novice caster but I'm a veteran reloader. Refreshingly most newbies (that I replied to) had bought and actually read loading manuals! A coworker tried to buy a loading setup last weekend, this past Friday I sent him after a loading manual. I'm sure there were plenty left.
I told him once he'd read the manual I'd go over the loading process with him in my loading room and help him get set up. His motivation is a new rifle in .300 RUM and the expense and availability of factory ammo. Good enough place to start, IMHO.
My point? We need more reloaders and they need to do the deed safely. Manuals and youtube videos only go so far. Some folks need hands-on instruction and if the situation is right I don't mind doing it. My reloading mentor is developing loads at the great shooting range in the sky but I remember his words every time I sit down at my bench. I'll choose my students carefully, they need to be aware of my need for privacy and will recognize the value of confidentiality for themselves.

[obssd1958]

I'll choose my students carefully, they need to be aware of my need for privacy and will recognize the value of confidentiality for themselves.

I don't always feel like the sharpest spoon in the drawer, and I am thinking about offering basic safety and reloading classes, so I would appreciate it if you could you expand on this? Not sure what steps you are taking involving privacy and confidentiality?

Thanks!


Don

[nhrifle]

I think he means don't go blabbing to everyone he meets that he is learning to reload from so-and-so. In this day and age, it's probably best if we maintain a degree of anonymity to the prying morality police.

[Gliden07]

I think he means don't go blabbing to everyone he meets that he is learning to reload from so-and-so. In this day and age, it's probably best if we maintain a degree of anonymity to the prying morality police.

Well put!!

[Jal5]

I am very careful about who I tell any thing to regarding reloading and/or what firearms I own. Call me paranoid but I believe we should be careful in the current situation.

[cbrick]

Brand new reloader's are a bit scary. When I started reloading I went to a friend's store to ask him what I would need, he handed me the Speer reloading manual and said this is everything you need, when this looks well worn come back and we'll get you set up with equipment. A couple of weeks later he got me started in his shop on his equipment and I've been pumping a press handle up & down ever since.

Brand new gun owners are also scary. During the last L.A. riots I had devoutly anti-gun friends call me and ask to borrow a gun. Yep, right. I told them they needed to go and buy a gun and get some training with it. One said he tried but there was a 14 day waiting period and the riots are going on now. I asked him weren't you all in favor of this waiting period and even banning guns? He said of course but . . .

The scary part of people that feel they need a gun for self defense is they buy a gun, maybe take it to a range once, maybe not and then put it in a dresser drawer and forget it until the time comes they need it. At this point the gun scares them more than it does the guy that broke into their house. It's not complicated and they do have every right to the gun but just a little common sense dictates that you become familiar both with it and with using it. Sometimes it's difficult to instill this common sense in people.

Bottom line is that I would rather live in world with all these brand new reloaders and brand new firearm owners than one with a government with detailed lists of every firearm and every firearm owner. Now that's scary!

Rick

[41 mag fan]

Well, the scary part of the newbie reloaders is any accidents or fatalities will give the government more ammo for their agenda



You can always tell those guys because they hit the internet forums with the below question:

"I'm not new to reloading, and I swear I have loaded 10,000,000,000 rounds, but why is my bullet seated so deep?"

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok rant off.

I'm not new to reloading, i've loaded maybe 1 boolit shy of a gazillion, but for 23 yrs now I've had a problem breaking that pin thingy that sticks out of the die. Sometimes it breaks, sometimes it sticks in my boolits when I try to seat them. What am I doing wrong???!!!! :kidding:

[shdwlkr]

You want scary how about the sales person that just sold that new customer a 9mm and when they ask for ammo he puts a box or two of 45 ACP on the counter! Yep saw it and stepped in and asked just how that ammo was going to fit that new firearm, an older clerk came over picked up the 45 ACP and replaced it with 9mm 147 grain no less but at least it was 9mm.

Reloading manuals well lets see I have around 15 or 20 because some of the rounds I like are not available anymore so you have to go backwards and then do some real thinking as many of the old powders are not around and then get online with a few who reload and then start at the low end an work up your load.

As to telling folks I reload not unless I know you reload otherwise I just go the store just like you do to get my ammo. These days I am wondering if some are not pretending to reload to know who has and who can have, if you get my meaning.

[uscra112]

We've got a job of work ahead of us, training all these newbies. But that's our God-given responsibility as Americans. It's what the NRA was founded to do, BTW.

[nhrifle]

I am going to be giving a coworker some hands-on instruction. I hope more newbies get help from experienced loaders.

[WILCO]

As much as I hate the concept more legislation, it almost makes sense to me that on the state level at least some legislation be passed requiring an 8-hour firearms safety course be passed before purchasing a gun.

Gear,

The second ammendment has nothing to do with safety courses or mental health.
Shall not be infringed means no B.S. in getting or owning a gun.

[Recluse]

Gear,

The second ammendment has nothing to do with safety courses or mental health.
Shall not be infringed means no B.S. in getting or owning a gun.

Agree. "Safety" legislation is the result of catering to the lowest common denominator in a given group. The overwhelming number of gun-owners, new and old alike, more than possess the common sense and intelligence to handle a firearm safely as well as to seek out instruction or assistance.

This is evidenced by the fact that we have approximately 100 million gun-owners in America with, percentage-wise, extremely few accidents based upon naive ignorance.

:coffee:

[Charlie Two Tracks]

This is what happens when guys aren't raised with guns or drafted. They don't know. They have fired a weapon on a video game or seen it done on TV, but not in the real world with real weapons. I just got back from the range and at the 25 yd targets there were two 45 cal. boolits with hard blue lube sticking half way into the 1" styrofoam backer. No joke. At 25 yds they didn't make it through. they were sideways and there were targets that showed key holing off to the side of the stuck ones. Even so, we will have to try to get more people out shooting and reloading. On the upside, there may be some great deals on reloading supplies in the future. I was over at Missouri Bullets site and they are way back ordered. I imagine most places are.
Back to the draft thing. How many of you guys didn't see someone in basic that had never ever been around a rifle. I'd call it a gun but I did a lot of push ups for doing that before.

[GRid.1569]

I told them they needed to go and buy a gun and get some training with it. One said he tried but there was a 14 day waiting period and the riots are going on now. I asked him weren't you all in favor of this waiting period and even banning guns? He said of course but . . .

Ain't that the case always.... It's not until the SHTF that people wake up... They have all the answers to questions that they should never have been asked... 14 days sounds about right for "stupid" to fix itself... "Dawrin... your order is ready...."

[felix]

The BrownBess. Yeah! Ah! So! That's my RIFLE! ... felix

Charlie, it takes 1 year to teach a drone pilot, and 2 to teach a real pilot. Some individuals can interchange A-OK with additional support, and others cannot qualify in the alternate scenario within any reasonable time. I personally know both kinds of pilots who live in my same immediate area here in town. ... felix

[opos]

"Belt and suspenders cautious"...that's how my wife describes me and maybe that's why I'm well into my 75th year with most of my parts still working (keep the comments to a minimum). I began loading back in the 50's when working in a gun store in Northern Colorado while going to college. Loaded lots of rifle ammo for quite a number of years...never any problems. Moved to California and quit loading and frankly quit shooting almost all together...went fishing.

About 8 or 9 years ago I decided to do some handgun shooting and that lead me to beginning to reload again. First thing I did was buy a Lyman book and a Speer book. Second thing I did was to sit and read and find out exactly what I'd forgotten and it was a huge amount. Third began very slowly with my little single stage (still use it) and scale (still weigh all my loads) and really was careful...I'm loading all I can shoot and have built up a reasonable supply of loaded ammo and feel comfortable with what I'm doing. It scares me to death to talk with old duffers like me that are "know it alls" and getting ready to "make up some ammo....can I use your equipment? NO! Got one guy I keep reminding that he's playing with explosives right near his face and hands and he'd better learn slow. There is a shop nearby that runs a little class for $75 to teach the basics...I'm amazed at how cheap some folks can be....$75 for a nice little course and $30 for a manual or two and it's a good start.

If you are new or "new back" please don' t get in a rush....Obama and his minions will be around for a while and we'll have plenty of chances to reload...slow and easy...first things first..

[popper]

I was a noobie, actually still am. went to the range with my new SG, tried to load the first round and the bbl came off. Oh, there are 2 detents on the end cap. When I started shooting and had trouble, others helped. I try to help others. A Dallas range has free training for gals, sure it's advertising, but at least they learn. I've heard there is an appleseed event every once in a while, not much else. My SIL's church actually has a train and shoot every once in a while on private land. Here I don't see the NRA as anything more than lobbys. The range where I started shooting has a mandatory basic safety class. What is scary are the ones who won't keep the bbl down range, finger off the trigger and can't hit the side of a barn from the inside, even after the class.

[1Shirt]

I really like the "Belt and suspenders cautious" statement. Just makes good sense that you can't be over cautious when it comes to your safety.
1Shirt!

[Blacksmith]

Back to the draft thing. How many of you guys didn't see someone in basic that had never ever been around a rifle. I'd call it a gun but I did a lot of push ups for doing that before.

When I qualified with the M1 Carbine we got five sighters, then a second set of five sighters then fired for record. After the first five we went to check targets and mine had ten holes in it. Of course the guy next to me had no holes in his target, so since five were in a group and five all over the paper I adjusted (Move the rear sight in the direction you want the impact to move) based on the group. My qual was expert I don't know about his.

[Blacksmith]

One of my neighbors, a middle aged lady, asked me about buying a first gun. She was surprised to learn I am a NRA instructor and active junior team coach. I offered to teach her the basics with an air rifle, we can move up from there if she wants. We will see if she takes my offer.

I have taught many hundreds of kids to shoot safely and effectively over the years and would have no fear in handing any one of them a firearm. I can't say that about some adults I know.

I think I will add a short section on the joys and hazards of reloading to my marksmanship classes with the emphasis on the importance of a good education and reloading manuals before embarking on a new endeavor. Hopefully they will remember the important points if they ever want to try.

[garym1a2]

AR15 mags in stock now for $20 at wilson combat. Midway had glock mags a few days ago for normal price. If you look hard you do not have to overpay.

[Brett Ross]

About a year ago I got back into shooting after a 15+ lay off. I had a friend let me shoot a couple of his old WW2 bolt rifles, I was hooked. I got my C&R, purchased a few different pistols and rifles then began to consider how to feed them. In the past all the guns I had were not real costly to feed, .22RF, .223, 38/357 and reloaded for my shot guns. Well things were different for my new purchases and I planned to start shooting my old guns much more. A new look at metallic reloading was in order. Being a 50 year old newbie to cartridge reloading and as I did not know any re-loaders for advice, my process consisted of reading on-line and then purchasing a Lee kit which contained Lee’s second edition reloading manual. I completely read and re-read Mr. Lee’s manual and after considered myself lucky I did not blow my face off years ago, reloading shot shells in a hap hazard manner (Young and dumb). So, I know the temptation to just jump in, but have found researching my new obsession to be almost as enjoyable as the reloading its-self.

[TXGunNut]

What am I doing wrong???!!!! -41 mag fan

You might try using competition dies, they work more better.:kidding:

[Love Life]

They cost more so they MUST work better.

[PatMarlin]

For newbies looking on...

I concur- Richard Lee's reloading book first or second addition is an excellent way to learn. Buy one. That's how I started reloading. Growing up in a family firearm culture builds a healthy respect for safety. Some people are just plain scary with a lawnmower.

[smokeywolf]

Heard a news blurb on the radio yesterday about ammunition shortages. Got out of the car and couldn’t hear the rest. Also keep seeing commentary on the WWW about ammo and component shortages.
I don’t have half as much of anything as I would like to have, but the hand writing was on the wall over a year ago that this was coming and as I customarily try to do, I studied, I listened and then followed my gut feelings.

This leads up to my feelings about newbies with guns, powder and primers.
Many of these people are panic buyers. They have either never felt the need to be able to protect themselves, or they are or were anti-gun folks (I typed “folks”, but was thinking, “idiots”). The fact that these people have been blind, deaf, dumb, or all of the above to the right, the need, and to put an even finer point on it, the responsibility to be able to defend one’s self, shows them to be of at least limited foresight, but more likely lacking common sense.
For this reason I have to agree with geargnasher on educating these newbies so they don’t shoot at a shadow on the bedroom wall and end up killing the neighbor child in the apartment next door.

At the same time, I agree with WILCO that “shall not be infringed” means just that; there is no caveat to that.

Perhaps when a firearm is sold by a dealer, the cost of a safety course should be included. If you have a “hunter/firearms safety card” already, the price is reduced. Example: when you adopt a dog or cat from the animal shelter, assuming the animal still has all it's plumbing, you are charged a spay/neuter fee on the spot. In most places, it’s up to you whether you come back and have it done or not.
Money collected for classes that end up not taken, could be used to promote responsible firearms ownership in some other way (good publicity).

Also, I would feel a little better at the public rifle & pistol ranges if I knew that everyone else there, had had at least a few hours of formal guidance in firearms safety. Suppose when you go to the range you have to show your firearms/hunter safety card to shoot. No card? Come back on such & such a day and we will be giving a class. Included in the price of the class is a free day at the range or a gift card for the local sporting/outdoor goods store or some sort of incentive to come back and take the course.

Neither one of these schemes would inhibit the purchase of a gun or even the ammo to feed it, but would be a definite plus for pro-gun sentiment.
The down side of course is, it still does not guarantee that an idiot will seek training.

smokeywolf

[Jon]

I've been finding more 223 brass lately with people trying out their new rifles.

It's good to see more interest in reloading, but I am also concerned that people do it safely.

[Artful]

Stolen from another site for your information


1) We traveled to Texas for Industry meetings concerning the shortages, here's what we were told.

Smith & Wesson-is running at Full capacity making 300+ guns/day-mainly M&P pistols. They are unable to produce any more guns to help with the shortages.

RUGER: Plans to increase from 75% to 100% in the next 90 days.

FNH: Moving from 50% production to 75% by Feb 1st and 100% by March 1.

Remington-Maxed out!

Armalite: Maxed out.

DPMS: Can't get enough parts to produce any more product.

COLT: Production runs increasing weekly...bottle necked by Bolt carrier's.

LWRC:Making only black guns, running at full capacity...can't get enough gun quality steel to make barrels.

Springfield Armory: Only company who can meet demand but are running 30-45 days behind.


AMMO: Every caliber is now Allocated!

We are looking at a nation wide shortage of all calibers over the next 9 months. All plants are producing as much ammo as possible w/ of 1 BILLION rnds produced weekly.

Most is military followed by L.E. and civilians are third in line.

MAGPUL is behind 1 MILLION mags, do not expect any large quanties of magpul anytime soon.

RELOADERS!!!! ALL Remington, Winchester, CCI & Federal primers are going to ammo FIRST.

There are no extra's for reloading purposes....it could be 6-9 months b/f things get caught up.

Sorry for the bleek news, but now we know what to expect in the coming months.

Stay tuned, we'll keep you posted. To follow is our inventory update for 1/26/13. Please share this info with your shooting buddies. Shoot safe!

[crawfobj]

Wow. Don't know what to say to that other than I'm glad I can make my own projectiles thanks to this site and everyone on it.

[RNyogi]

Totally agree with this one!

I am very careful about who I tell any thing to regarding reloading and/or what firearms I own. Call me paranoid but I believe we should be careful in the current situation.

[shdwlkr]

This is what happens when guys aren't raised with guns or drafted. They don't know. They have fired a weapon on a video game or seen it done on TV, but not in the real world with real weapons. I just got back from the range and at the 25 yd targets there were two 45 cal. boolits with hard blue lube sticking half way into the 1" styrofoam backer. No joke. At 25 yds they didn't make it through. they were sideways and there were targets that showed key holing off to the side of the stuck ones. Even so, we will have to try to get more people out shooting and reloading. On the upside, there may be some great deals on reloading supplies in the future. I was over at Missouri Bullets site and they are way back ordered. I imagine most places are.
Back to the draft thing. How many of you guys didn't see someone in basic that had never ever been around a rifle. I'd call it a gun but I did a lot of push ups for doing that before.
Charlie
When I was in a Gun was a field artillery piece or found on ships.
We used rifles, pistols, etc. Man have times changed
I did a lot of push ups also but it was because I called M16 my Matty Mattel because that was who made the plastic material on it. Once the DI and Captain saw it for themselves they never made me do another push up for that issue. ha ha

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I am a huge fan of training , as a firearms educator myself .
I would love to see everyone well trained
but when everyone thought oh the blood will run in the streets when they said 4 hours training for a concealed carry license , or hunters ed or military basic training even if that was 40 years ago and you haven't touched a gun since.

but I said , no it will be fine , millions of illegal immigrants drive our streets every day and don't have an accident rate significantly greater than the people who had 40 hours of classroom then 8 hours behind the wheel with an instructor , more time as a observer , then took a test and proficiency test given by the state.

If you mandate training people seem to find a way to do the absolute minimum and not even pay attention well

but if you put their but and their freedom on the line they will find a way to not screw it up , cause lets face it nothing puts your but in the fire like screwing up carry


best thing we can do is offer as much free information and training as possible , I am strongly considering doing some Utube videos on safe handling , it is going to be all about making in accessible and free

[starmac]

I'm thinking everybody started out a newbie. Some at a lot younger age than others, but we all started out at some time.
That said, I have been thinking for over a year that just the sheer numbers of firearms sold since Obummer started selling them that a percentage of folks that shouldn't be near a gun is going to be buying them too. I truly believe it is everyones right to own as many guns as they want, but at the same time think there are some people that will never have the common sense really needed to own them, and a percentage of them can not be fixed by any amount of training or schooling. The percentage is I hope small though.

[bbekalb]

oddly enough I think some people at ranges should get their panties out of a bunch. Here's my story. I just finished shooting the siminov. one other guy there at the other end, say 50 yds away with a flint lock musket. i start picking up the brass, and step over the line less than a foot to get some flyers. this guy starts hollering at me to stay behind the line, and says he would hate to see a range accident in a real condescending manner. I was comfortable stepping there, as the guy would have to be aiming directly along the line to hit me. now I can see if it was crowded, but that's ridiculous to be such a hand wringing tool over something so petty, that only put me in "danger." I'm all for safety but to within limits.

[Jim]

..... i start picking up the brass, and step over the line less than a foot to get some flyers.....

I understand what you're sayin', but actually I kinda' appreciate the other guy's concerns as opposed to being complacent about it. Now, I will give you he could have approached it in a bit more mature and respectful manner.

I've been on a coupla' private club ranges where stepping over the line before the range is cleared would get your membership immediately and permanently revoked and you'd be escorted to the gate.

[454PB]

A friend of mine recently applied for a CCW. He's a school administrator, and I think he should have one.....but here's the rub....he hasn't fired a handgun in 30 years. Even back when he did do some shooting, he used a .22 SA rimfire revolver.

He was required to take a 4 hour training course, and the instructor was a 28 year old that recommended to the class that they carry a semi-auto, rather than a revolver. This went against everything I had recommended to him...I suggested he get a Ruger SP-101. That would allow him to "start" learning with .38 Special ammo and work up, besides saving him the learning curve of semi-auto pistols.

Unfortunately, we live 90 miles apart, so there's little opportunity to help him along with some range time and safe gun handling.

[TheCelt]

[QUOTE=454PB;2117521]

He was required to take a 4 hour training course, and the instructor was a 28 year old that recommended to the class that they carry a semi-auto, rather than a revolver. This went against everything I had recommended to him...I suggested he get a Ruger SP-101. That would allow him to "start" learning with .38 Special ammo and work up, besides saving him the learning curve of semi-auto pistols.

I cannot for the life of me understand why NRA certified firearms instructors are recommending semi-autos to new students!!! A very highly regarded training institution operates at the range I use and they do the same. I was admonished for providing my wife with a 38 cal S&W 36 no-dash as a defensive weapon. To me, unless you're shooting EVERY weekend, can clear a stovepipe in less than 300ms and can recognize and correct a dropped mag in a half second or less you are better off with a revolver. That's my opinion and I'm stickin to it.

[RoyEllis]

oddly enough I think some people at ranges should get their panties out of a bunch. Here's my story. I just finished shooting the siminov. one other guy there at the other end, say 50 yds away with a flint lock musket. i start picking up the brass, and step over the line less than a foot to get some flyers. this guy starts hollering at me to stay behind the line, and says he would hate to see a range accident in a real condescending manner. I was comfortable stepping there, as the guy would have to be aiming directly along the line to hit me. now I can see if it was crowded, but that's ridiculous to be such a hand wringing tool over something so petty, that only put me in "danger." I'm all for safety but to within limits.

Maybe he could've spoken a little "kinder", BUT....at the end of the day, when all is said and done....you were wrong, not him. Did he have the ability to read your mind & know you were going no farther? Nope. Were you across the line without the range cleared to go downrange? Yep.
"Just a foot over the line" doesn't excuse violating safety rules, a little violation is no different than a big violation, a rule was still intentionally broken. Would you put an extra grain or 2 of powder above max load simply because "it's only a little bit"? I'm not trying to beat on ya or bash you, just want you to see the other side of the coin.

[cbrick]

I'm all for safety but to within limits.

Ya almost had me talked into your side up until the last two words. Safety within limits? I've shot at matches that sticking a foot over the line would get your score disqualified.

Placing limits on safety? Not a real good plan.

Rick

[Ohio Rusty]

Maybe Obama and OBiden's gun control campaign is actually in effect. Is it possible this administration is in bed with the anti-gun crowd (Feinstein) and have somehow stopped the flow of powder, primers and boolits as their gun control measure. We think it's a shortage... or we are lead to believe it's a shortage ..... maybe it's not. Maybe there won't be any more except little trickles of this and that because the current administration has put a stop to ammo and components without our knowledge .... Who knows what under-the-table deals have been going on since Sandy Hook .....
Just sayin'...........
Ohio Rusty ><>

[wv109323]

We have noticed the same thing in new gun owners and new reloaders.
Our private club is opening our range with instruction for the new gun owners. We have had one day for women only with women RSO instruction.
We are scheduling the same for men then youth. We have seen more than expected people show up.
The problem with new reloaders is there is no components to buy.

[DIRT Farmer]

I stopped past thee LGS to pick up my ration of primers, 100 per day but they have a full selection. There was a man and wife in the store with a reloading manual trying to find the componets to start reloading. I noticed highlighter marks on the selected loads and the edges of the book showed finger stains. Big plus was he and she were both asking "*********t questions."

I did what I could do to help them, he ended up ordering the powder and bullets with a call when they arrived, said he needed more time to study.

[Kull]

I try to help people as I can, or at least the ones that exhibit a willingness to listen. Problem is I'm a horrible teacher. I have no people patience and always wrongly assume everyone has used a gun at least once in their life. I might be better teaching someone to reload, but as an advise giver to new gun owners I suck.

With all the panic a friend called me up and said he wanted to buy his first handgun, what would I recommend. Open question but I started telling him things I would buy anyway. I finally did get smart and told him that renting some guns at a range would be the best idea. So we did that. Drove the hour to the closest indoor range and rented various pistols in 40 S&W and 45 ACP. My friend put so many holes in the ceiling of that range. It was amazing. Couldn't hit a target ten feet in from of him. Did hit and break the target holder though, twice. That was a couple months ago and he never has bought a pistol. I fear those were a bit too much for him so from now on anyone asks me a similar question I'm saying 22 and a brick of ammo.

[Swamp Man]

I'm ready to start reloading 410 to save on shell cost but I picked the wrong time to start thinking about doing that. I checked on press and supplies but there either out of stock or the prices are sky high. The good thing is I'm in no rush to get started and can wait. Who know it may turn out to be a good thing in the long run I may be able to get a new/like new press and some supplies cheap before to to long.

[Gator 45/70]

CCI Primers starting to trickle in down here ...

[bbekalb]

Ya almost had me talked into your side up until the last two words. Safety within limits? I've shot at matches that sticking a foot over the line would get your score disqualified.

Placing limits on safety? Not a real good plan.


Rick
I can definitely see were your reasoning lies, and I could see his as well, but the fact remains I made the call I was in no danger. If he honestly thought he was going to hit me, while reloading, then he was a fool. Safety is up to the individual, and using overkill rules and complaining when they are broken implies that we are children, and require rules because we lack any sense.

[Love Life]

Can somebody please explain to me why a semi-auto is a bad choice for a fist self defense gun?

If it is your first gun, and you learn on it, what is the issue? The "Wheelgun is more reliable, can be stored for long periods, and always goes bang" is lost on me because all the autos I have fired in the last 10 years also do the same thing.

I am not trying to poke the bears, but I am interested in hearing people's reasoning. With the advancements in auto loaders I believe they make a great self defense gun, and you have to be a serious mouth breather to not be able to figure one out and become proficient.

[dakotashooter2]

You would swear that most people think they are going to fight in WWIII in a self defense situation. Unless you are taking on multiple shooters and are backed into a corner you likely are not going to need more than six shots. If you do you are probably somewhere you shouldn't have been in the first place..............

[TXGunNut]

Can somebody please explain to me why a semi-auto is a bad choice for a first self defense gun?

Dunno. Nostalgia? I used to give that advice and believed it until a few new shooters taught me otherwise. I generally brought a small DA revolver, a full size revolver, a DA auto, and a SA auto to the range for demo and familiarization. Amazing how many folks, especially women, took right to the 1911. So much for a SA auto being an "expert's gun". I still think a DA revolver or auto is a safer purse gun or sometimes even a house gun but I present choices and explain features & benefits. It ain't about what I like, anyway.

[captaint]

I'm all for new shooters OR owners of handguns getting a revolver. Anyone can look at a revolver
and see that it's loaded. We're just talking basics here. With a semi auto, not the case, to the
untrained eye. I'm thinking of loaded chamber indicators here. I own lots of semi autos and are
very fond of every one. But I still think a revolver is safer for a novice, in terms of loaded or not.
Then there's the safety on/safety off issue. Mike

[smokemjoe]

This is just like someone with a chain saw that never used one before. Give them on hands help.

[garym1a2]

Cause most people will not take the time to learn it. My Glocks 21SF and 22 are the best self defense guns in the world. BUT if you limp wrist them they will jam.

I rather they have a hammer semi-auto for the first gun and than they get the long double first pull.


Can somebody please explain to me why a semi-auto is a bad choice for a fist self defense gun?

If it is your first gun, and you learn on it, what is the issue? The "Wheelgun is more reliable, can be stored for long periods, and always goes bang" is lost on me because all the autos I have fired in the last 10 years also do the same thing.

I am not trying to poke the bears, but I am interested in hearing people's reasoning. With the advancements in auto loaders I believe they make a great self defense gun, and you have to be a serious mouth breather to not be able to figure one out and become proficient.

[Love Life]

I get the easier to tell if a revolver is loaded, but if you pick up a gun and squeeze the trigger without checking to see if it is loaded then your instructor failed you. You have also failed yourself.

I do agree that it would be a safer purse gun. Women have it made. If I could carry a purse without being shamed out of town I would have a shorty 12 gauge in there.

[sparkz]

My thinking is wheel is where its at for new shooter,, in any hurryed scared to death event point and squeeze,, done deal no thinking
auto for new shooter may hang, and drop mags my forget to pull slide, and worst of all may suffer broken thumb from slider..
wheel gun first, leave in unclean state full of sand pull it out first time in months and pop-goes-the-weasle.

JMO

The wheel is best, safest, easyest, first gun for both them and me to teach them

Patrick

[Jon]

Here's my take.

Wheel gun for those that can't or won't spend the time to get well versed in how a pistol handles. There is less to go wrong, and less of a chance of a jam. Even a dud round isn't a big deal. Another trigger pull will put a fresh one down the barrel. Most women seem to have trouble racking the slide on an auto, so that's a factor as well.

Auto, for those that are more serious and are willing to practice. More things to go wrong, but more capacity.

Life is full of tradeoffs.

[RW460]

I see all the GLOCK heads are out, you need to try going back to the old single action, I did and never looked back. Yes I do have a few autos but they only get used to get the dust off. Swapped a fine tuned 45 auto for a SA 45 BISELY.

[dakotashooter2]

Things to worry about with a revolver
1) making sure the cyclinder is full
2) pulling the trigger

Things to worry about with a semi auto
1) round in the chamber
2) jam
3) magazine malfunction
4) limp wrist malfunction
5) safety/decocker (some models)
6) accidentally hitting mag release
7) FTF
8) pulling trigger

A lot of new shooters won't take the gun out enough to be comfortable or effective dealing with any of the problems listed which is why I recommend a revolver. As long as it is loaded when you pull the trigger it should go bang.