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Bodine
01-27-2013, 12:51 PM
Here is a design schematic for a PID controller for use either electric lead pot or lubersizer.59618

No_1
01-27-2013, 01:20 PM
Very nice!

Bodine
01-27-2013, 01:40 PM
The actual PID Controller - Auber Instruments Best Quality


The K Type submersible thermocouple


40amp Solid State Relay


Heat Sink for 40 amp SSR


Project box


fuse holder
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/FHPM-45/GMA-FUSE-POST-ALCO/1.html

fuses
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/GMA-10/10A-GMA-FUSE/1.html

indicator lamps
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/IND-120R/120-VAC-8MM-INDICATOR-LAMP-RED/1.html

switches
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/STS-56/SPST-ON-OFF-HEAVY-DUTY-TOGGLE-SWITCH/1.html

terminal strip
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/TS-203/3-POSITION-DUAL-ROW-STRIP-20-AMP/1.html

Power cord ( cut in half for power in and power out)
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/EXT-63/6-APPLIANCE/AIR-CONDITIONER-CORD-14/3/1.html

Racenviper
01-27-2013, 01:54 PM
Your project box has the heat sink link.

Bodine
01-27-2013, 05:15 PM
I fixed that, sorry guys...

badgeredd
01-29-2013, 04:23 PM
Bodine,

A great post. I'd like to suggest one change though to the component list...how 'bout keeping everything to regular suppliers or at least an alternate supplier besides eBay. Ebay links tend to go dead in my experience.

Edd

Springfield
01-29-2013, 05:11 PM
Why the indicator lights? Seems like the PID display would be enough. I haven't felt the need to add any to my PID. Also, what did you use for the on-off switch? I got one at Radio shack with a built in on light, seems to work OK.

jroc
02-04-2013, 08:46 PM
Bodine thats great I like that. Your PID controller can be bought right from auberins.com. I have dealt with them a lot and they are very helpful if you have questions. One thing to keep in mind though is that a SSR when it goes bad it typically stays closed so your unit would stay powered until you caught the problem. On the other hand a contactor when they malfunction they typically open so you wouldn't have a chance of something overheating if it was unattended. You would also have to use another PID which Auberins has for the same price that is set up for a contactor. Just my .02 worth.

6bg6ga
02-16-2013, 07:31 AM
If you want to go the cheaper route you can opt for a Ebay special that isn't rated for the larger current load and simply use a wall wart to run an ice cube relay. This way there is no heat, no heat sink and the money that was spent for the SS relay and heavy duty current rating of the PID will be spent for the small wall wart power supply and a cheap plug in relay.
The power supply one leg will simply run thru a set of contacts in the PID controller. The heavy current needs of a heater will simply be run thru the contacts of the add on relay.

61388

Its not hard to source a small wall wart power supply and a Ice cube relay for $10 or less.

sabrecross03
03-18-2013, 07:38 AM
Great Schematic and thanks for posting! I ordered the wrong PID (SSR built-in). As soon as I return it to Auberins and get the one with the SSR control output, I plan to build it.

kdiver58
05-21-2013, 08:40 AM
For driving a Lee Pro 4-20 pot 110v/700watt you shouldn't need more than a 10 amp SSR should you ?

Cane_man
05-21-2013, 05:26 PM
^^^ true... but it may overheat... a 40A SSR is about $7, it might be overkill but you won't have the over heating problems

Frozone
05-21-2013, 05:34 PM
Since the 10A, the 25A, and the 40A SSRs are often in the same packages (at least the Ebay stuff)- the 10A won't over heat.

Consider - The household circuit that you draw from can supply 15A + before your breaker trips.
A short circuit will burn out the 10A before the breaker can stop it. The 25 A May be OK in the same instance.
Also who says you will Always use the thing for Only 700W?
Better to have the capacity that you can draw from the wall and then you won't have to rebuilt it to get there.
But the 25A in and feel good the extra cost is what 50 cent.

dikman
01-12-2014, 06:41 AM
One suggestion, if I may. If you're using a metal case to house everything then it's considered normal practice to also ground the earth lead to the case.

shuckinthecorn
02-23-2014, 09:09 PM
I just bought a SYL-2362A2 from Auber, and the design schematic on it is different than the one at the top of this thread. This may be covered somewhere else, but near as I can tell, it hasn't been mentioned in this thread. As you can see on the one I bought, the SSR control is on 6&7, the thermocoupler is on 9&10 and the PID power is on 1&2. Just hoping to save someone some trouble.
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k226/1hillbilly3/pid_zps89c51814.jpg (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/1hillbilly3/media/pid_zps89c51814.jpg.html)

dikman
02-28-2014, 04:55 AM
Bottom line is, they're all different! There is no "standard" as to which terminals are used for which functions. You have to check the connections for whichever one you buy.

6bg6ga
02-28-2014, 07:22 AM
I just bought a SYL-2362A2 from Auber, and the design schematic on it is different than the one at the top of this thread. This may be covered somewhere else, but near as I can tell, it hasn't been mentioned in this thread. As you can see on the one I bought, the SSR control is on 6&7, the thermocoupler is on 9&10 and the PID power is on 1&2. Just hoping to save someone some trouble.
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k226/1hillbilly3/pid_zps89c51814.jpg (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/1hillbilly3/media/pid_zps89c51814.jpg.html)

The wiring diagrams out there are a reference only. If you have something that is different simply change the diagram after printing it out and use it.

shuckinthecorn
03-10-2014, 10:04 AM
The title of this thread is "Pid Controller Schematic ".
Isn't it possible that someone might actually wire their unit by this?
Until now, I don't think this has been mentioned in this thread.
BTW, I used the schematic that came with mine, and all is well.
I knew to check the instructions for each particular unit, isn't it possible that someone might not?
As already stated, just hoping to save someone some trouble, nothing else.

Cmm_3940
03-14-2014, 03:57 PM
I think the thermostat in my 4 20 is shot, and I have some questions about building a PID controller.

Does anyone have a guesstimate as to the cost of all the parts for this project as listed?

Is there a cheaper PID available that will work? I'm thinking 'no frills,' if that is possible.

Is a 'K type submersible thermocouple' a generic description? Do I need any one in particular? Non-ebay source for same?

w0fms
03-14-2014, 04:41 PM
Yeah.. Since things have cooled down a little around the Frozone debate ... and I'm not trying to make money anyway from this ... here are some "stable" Amazon links for equipment (except for the thermocouple). E-Bay is cheaper and it's the same stuff. I've not gotten burned on ANYTHING PID/Thermocouple related on e-bay -- even from China.

Here are my recommendations, with some logic. I am not affiliated with any of the sellers listed here and I bought my two sets of PID stuff from completely different sellers. You are responsible for what you chose to buy:

MyPin TA4-SNR PID... $25 shipped from e-bay (US Seller), or from Amazon --DO NOT BUY THE "RNR" MODEL... either the SNR + K-thermocouple or SSR (better IMHO if you want to pay extra over e-bay) $29. Prime eligible.

http://www.amazon.com/AGPtek-Temperature-Controller-TA4-SNRWith-alarm/dp/B00BVWYHVO

Solid State Relay.. I like going bigger than I need.. so if you are going for the Taiwanese SSR's.. spring the extra few bux for the 40A model. Typically $10 with a heat sink from China on e-bay... or... Amazon... $15 prime eligible...

http://www.amazon.com/Single-Phase-Solid-SSR-40DA-90-480V/dp/B00843IUG6

HEAT SINK GREASE-- the low ratings on Amazon for the above were because people forgot to grease the SSR! YOU NEED TO PUT THE GREASE BETWEEN THE SSR and Heat Sink. $8 but a lifetime supply for most...

http://www.amazon.com/Arctic-Silver-Alumina-Polysynthetic-Compound/dp/B004Z9XG0I

-- and note-- you can argue all day that the heatsink isn't needed depending on how you mount and you'd be correct. It's so cheap to just get the heatsink, I recommend doing that and then there are no worries if you put grease in between the SSR and the heatsink.. if you use the mounting case as a heatsink, you still need the grease!

Thermocouple.. Typically what most use here are a long shaft "dip in the pot" type.. Wow..Amazon appears to stink for that. Bite your pride and go on e-bay. $2-10 bucks... I mean if you don't want to go e-bay, you can pay $20-30 for a $5 thermocouple that is up to you...

This link will go dead eventually, but as of today 3.14/14 (pi joke intended), this seems to be the most appropriate thermocouple from e-bay from a US seller...



Because of the fact the link will eventually disappear.... here is a picture...

99532

$6.39.

So.. AS OF TODAY...Using Amazon where possible, and assuming free shipping-- it's $29 + $15 + $8 + $6.3 == $58.30
Going to e-bay for the same stuff== $25 + $10 + $5 + $6.3 == $46.30

This doesn't include mounting stuff.. I think M6 screws are needed for the heatsink if not included, I always had them in a cheap Harbor Freight assortment I got on close out there...

Fred

Cmm_3940
03-14-2014, 05:12 PM
Exactly what I was looking for. Thank you.

MrWolf
03-21-2014, 01:05 PM
Edited - Never mind. Think I answered my own question.

stu1ritter
03-22-2014, 07:03 AM
W0FMS, thanks for making this very easy.
Stu
N0LEF

Cmm_3940
03-23-2014, 04:31 AM
It isn't fancy, but it doesn't need to be. Here is my new PID controller. I put it together for about $50. Thanks for the help, guys.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd195/cm6259/PIDcontroller.jpg (http://s224.photobucket.com/user/cm6259/media/PIDcontroller.jpg.html)

dikman
03-30-2014, 02:15 AM
With that colour at least you won't lose it! And you're right, it doesn't need to be fancy, just functional. Keep it simple.

Bryan527
03-16-2015, 01:19 AM
Bodine, I would like to thank you for posting this. I used your schematic to wire my PID, and it works great.

Mike W1
05-26-2015, 03:07 PM
After trying to explain how to hook up a PID unit I've made some adaptions to part of somebody else's drawing and came up with this. After trying a couple methods I've found it's easiest to save the image with a right click and loading it into MS Word for printing. If you are interested in a JPG file which is easily altered with MS Paint PM me. Any suggestions on bases I didn't cover would be appreciated. Changed the thing a bit. Do have one available for
SYL-2352 and one Mypin model. PM me if interested.

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u310/Mike4245/Basic%20PID%20Wiring_zpsqibziukc.jpg

RegisG
06-25-2015, 09:15 AM
I've got the parts on the way but, don't know what size box I will need. One link here on site is old ebay and item is gone.
Appreciate any tips on box size. PID & 40a SSR and the small parts.

Thanks
Regis



It isn't fancy, but it doesn't need to be. Here is my new PID controller. I put it together for about $50. Thanks for the help, guys.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd195/cm6259/PIDcontroller.jpg (http://s224.photobucket.com/user/cm6259/media/PIDcontroller.jpg.html)

deoje
06-25-2015, 09:27 AM
I used a 30 cal ammo can for mine. That might be an option depending on what you want.

angioman5163
07-01-2015, 08:19 PM
Hey all,
I like many others are getting into casting, couple questions, is it okay to melt your wheel weights in your pot such as the lee 420, I want to do this to control the temp in case there is any zinc, don't want to go above 725. with all this talk about thermo couplers couldn't you just put water in the pot and see what temp for each number on the reo-stat. ( I know not to get water near the pot with lead in it)
any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Brian

bhn22
07-01-2015, 09:04 PM
Lees pots don't really have a thermostat, they're the bimetal type controller, and have large temp variances. Water boils at 212*, so that won't be much help for you either when you need about triple that temperature for casting. I normally don't use a casting worthy pot to smelt because it usually introduces dirt and other contaminants to the pot, and they can be difficult to get clean again. Get a good thermostat and use it to set your temps, and don't rely too heavily on Lee pots for fine temp adjustments.

Electric88
07-15-2015, 09:02 AM
I'm thinking about building a PID using the components mentioned in this thread. Is it possible to use the same PID for a toaster oven (for powder coating) as well as a Lee Pro 4-20 casting furnace? They would not be used at the same time, I am more interested in whether it will be versatile between the two. Thank you!

JonB_in_Glencoe
07-15-2015, 09:18 AM
I'm thinking about building a PID using the components mentioned in this thread. Is it possible to use the same PID for a toaster oven (for powder coating) as well as a Lee Pro 4-20 casting furnace? They would not be used at the same time, I am more interested in whether it will be versatile between the two. Thank you!
Absolutely !

Mike W1
07-15-2015, 09:28 AM
I'd suggest you check Auber's Q&A on what TC to use for the toaster as some have faster response times than others according to them.

Electric88
07-15-2015, 09:38 AM
I was looking at the MyPin TA4 SSR temp controller. Also, in reading over the components suggested, I am slightly confused as to why the original parts list suggests a 20A fuse as opposed to a 40A fuse if the 40A SSR is used. Perhaps I am overlooking something though. I greatly appreciate all the input!

popper
07-15-2015, 09:49 AM
'K' long probe - high temp insulation, long braid protected leads. Fits in the pot or in a hole in the side of the oven. 40 amp SSR is about SSR reliability - runs cooler - when properly heatsinked. Heat is a killer for the SSR. 15 amp fuse is for wire fire protection only - I don't use one, the Lee pot doesn't have one either. It will NOT protect the PID, SSR or anything else.

Electric88
07-15-2015, 10:10 AM
I did read earlier that a good grease is needed for between the SSR and the heatsink in order for it to run correctly. If the fuses aren't needed, I might just skip them then. Unless they are just used in tandem with the indicator lights to show that a short has occurred?

RegisG
07-15-2015, 01:01 PM
Be sure that it is a good "conductive" grease. Best to get a tube of thermal grease made for this. About a dollar.
Regis


I did read earlier that a good grease is needed for between the SSR and the heatsink in order for it to run correctly. If the fuses aren't needed, I might just skip them then. Unless they are just used in tandem with the indicator lights to show that a short has occurred?

ChevelleDave
11-16-2015, 02:14 AM
Got Mine built, works AWESOME. Thanks for all the info off this thread.

http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag124/71metbu/DAVE-PC/Reloading/Bullet%20Casting/20151115_204944_zpspmsqw8rf.jpg

JonB_in_Glencoe
11-16-2015, 11:26 AM
Got Mine built, works AWESOME. Thanks for all the info off this thread.

http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag124/71metbu/DAVE-PC/Reloading/Bullet%20Casting/20151115_204944_zpspmsqw8rf.jpg
It looks like you did some mods to the pot, maybe take some more photos and start a new thread on what you did and why. Looks like some craftsmanship went into your work...and from the looks of your bench, you are not new to casting.

ChevelleDave
11-16-2015, 02:07 PM
I wish I could take credit for the pot upgrades, but it's a kit I bought off Ebay.


I cannot tell You the quality and craftsmenship that is in this upgrade. It is all CNC machined and makes casting much easier then the stock mould guide. I really like the way it gets the support rod out of the way.

Check it out, worth every penny.

As far as castring, I am fairly new to it. I've been reloading for several years now, and the process of casting looked very cool to Me. I love doing any type of mechanical monkeying around.

I built My version of a indoor casting booth.
http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag124/71metbu/DAVE-PC/Reloading/Bullet%20Casting/20151030_182440_zpsuflfvxap.jpg

Then I vented it through the window to the outside.

http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag124/71metbu/DAVE-PC/Reloading/Bullet%20Casting/20151030_182325_zpsrn7tiolp.jpg

JonB_in_Glencoe
11-16-2015, 02:53 PM
Thanks for posting more photos. Looks great.

jmoore
01-22-2016, 06:13 AM
Thanks to y'all and a shooting friend for the controller ideas. Here's mine on it's first run after getting a brain:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b226/dave4201/Jmoore%20Stuff/general%20ammo%20and%20reloading/Bullet%20Casting/PID%20control%20for%20old%20Lyman%20pot/DSC03883_zpsnj7vunf4.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b226/dave4201/Jmoore%20Stuff/general%20ammo%20and%20reloading/Bullet%20Casting/PID%20control%20for%20old%20Lyman%20pot/DSC03884_zpsuk06tfop.jpg

Probably the best casting day I've had. Quality was excellent. Visually and weight-wise. Very few culls.

I have several pots, but this old Lyman has been a favorite for years, even though it was in "distressed" condition when purchased used about 20years ago.

A "before" photo:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b226/dave4201/Jmoore%20Stuff/general%20ammo%20and%20reloading/Bullet%20Casting/2013-03-30jmoorestuff022_zps19bbe356.jpg
BTW: That old Ideal 32-20 mould still makes good boolits.

rbertalotto
01-23-2016, 07:17 AM
OK, I give up....What is that contraption above your furnace. A hanging weight? Some kind of a slide?...Gotta know!

Chris C
01-25-2016, 09:50 PM
I have a question. I'm not quite ready to start putting together a PID for my Lee bottom pour pot yet. But curiosity has the best of me.........................! What criteria do you use to chose from all the PID units available on the market. I mean, as a "non-electrically-minded" individual, all I know is I want to be able to see the temperature I'm requiring and the actual temperature of the molten alloy. It would be nice to have a light or alarm to let me know when the temperature is back up to the requested temperature after adding alloy to the pot. Only have the one pot to control. Can't see why I'd ever want the alloy to be hotter than 750 degrees. I see 14 different PID Controllers just on the Auberins site. On other on-line sites I see tons of them. What criteria do you use to chose one?

JonB_in_Glencoe
01-26-2016, 12:01 AM
Chris,
My venture into building a PID, started with the Cheapest components possible.
But, I wanted it to display Fahrenheit.
So I ordered from "Deal Extreme", for $26 and free shipping from Hong Kong...4 weeks later, I got a PID ...that was defective. I was bummed.

BUT
I was impressed with the manual, compared to what I heard about Mypin's manual.
So I ordered the same unit from a USA source, for a few bucks more, but shipping was extra.
http://www.lightobject.com/JLD612-Dual-Display-PID-Temperature-Controller-P43.aspx
While this PID can be setup to control temperatures on many things heating and cooling, I was happy to see the "example in the manual is just about exactly what we want it to do with a lead alloy pot.
http://fhupiora.fhupiora.home.pl/JLD612Manual.pdf

If you are going to build one, it's best to have a good grasp on it capabilities.
It'll help you understand how to set the parameters.

Mike W1
01-26-2016, 12:16 AM
The controller's I've seen, all show the set temperature as well as the value in the pot. (PV)

You don't really need or use any more than that in my experience. Wired some external alarms on 1 unit and didn't bother on the other 2 units. FWIW

Chris C
01-26-2016, 10:15 AM
Okay, I get "don't buy on the cheap and expect quality".........and I yield to experience and will forgo alarms. But I guess my question is what attributes would make you choose one model over another? Such as.........what is the difference between 1/16 DIN and 1/32 DIN, and why would one choose one over the other for our purpose?

JonB_in_Glencoe
01-26-2016, 12:38 PM
Not to confuse you more, but many have bought the cheapest and have been successful...I could have easily gotten a working PID cheaply from Hong Kong, But I didn't, that was just my experience. So with that aside, and after reading the experiences of many members who have built them. If you are not the least bit familiar with what a PID is, a manual that is easy to read as opposed to a manual that is poorly translated from Mandarin, would be a huge attribute to look for...am I correct ?

Is having the temperature display Fahrenheit a big deal for you...some of the cheapest ones on Fleabay only display in Celsius.

The DIN size is just that, the physical size of the PID and what size hole you need to mount it into.


PS: I posted a link to the manual for the unit I bought, that I thought was fairly easy to understand. below is the link to the Mypin manual...take the time to read through it,and see if you come to the same conclusion as me...it's difficult to understand.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5ffKmk8JZOwM3hBeEZzdUF5LTQ/edit?pli=1

Mike W1
01-26-2016, 01:47 PM
The PID controllers all will Autotune the P, I, & D values. If we had to do them manually we'd all go nuts. Those determine how often and the duration of when power goes to our lead pot and keep the temperature pretty constant.

The JDL-612 unit looks nice at $32.50 + shipping. Similar to the Auber SYL-2352 at $46.50 + shipping. But the only thing they'll really do better than a REX C100 is read in F or C and that is available for $13.04 on one site and they set up just as easily. Depends on whether a F readout is worth an extra $20-$30 to you. I might add I had a Mypin TA4-SNR and thought something was wrong with it. Returned it for another and it did the same thing. I didn't care for the way it was constantly cycling the power out unlike my Auber or Rex did. Bought another Rex. Other model Mypins may go about things differently than the SNR. Don't know about that.

Ole Joe Clarke
01-26-2016, 01:53 PM
Jmoore: I have the same Lyman casting unit that you show. I am a complete dunderhead when it comes to electrical stuff, if it needs turning, milling etc., that's my history. Question, you have a electrical device mounted on the side of the thermostat, do you have a photo of the wiring inside that? I sure do need to see what it looks like.

Thanks

jmoore
02-01-2016, 01:45 AM
OK, I give up....What is that contraption above your furnace. A hanging weight? Some kind of a slide?...Gotta know!

The contraption is a sliding (and coincidentally a pivoting) arm for the long probe thermocouple. Since the pot is so small in diameter, it's handy to move the thermocouple out of the way whilst charging the pot, etc. Thought it might need a weight, but it turned out that it wasn't required.


Jmoore: I have the same Lyman casting unit that you show. I am a complete dunderhead when it comes to electrical stuff, if it needs turning, milling etc., that's my history. Question, you have a electrical device mounted on the side of the thermostat, do you have a photo of the wiring inside that? I sure do need to see what it looks like.

Thanks

If you note in the "before" photo, the old receptacle was missing when I bought it years ago. Figured it was time to sort that, and added a ground wire in the process. The box was an old work light base which got the big holes covered over. Really nothing to it aside from the fiberglass cloth header wrap insulation. Had nothing to do with the PID! My other old Lyman pot still has the factory plug and cord without the ground.

MBfrontier
05-15-2016, 07:27 AM
Thanks to all those that have posted info on this subject. For me, this is a learning experience.

I just purchased the components to build a PID unit for controlling the temperature of my Lee Pro 4 20 pot. I purchased a MYPIN TA4-SSR Controller, a 25A SSR w/Heat Sink, and a K-type thermocouple rated at 700 deg. Celsius. I am mounting the components in a case from a dead computer power supply. So far, the PID control unit was delivered so I started assembling the control unit and on/off switch in the case. Here's a picture of the progress so far.
http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/ad183/MBuehner/PID%20Project/IMG_1240_zpsokkz3xpj.jpg
I still need to install the SSR and heat sink, the connector block, and a plug for the pot in the case.

My question is did I buy the correct thermocouple? It is rated at 700 deg. Celsius and I'm wondering if I should have purchased a 1200 deg. Celsius unit? Here is the eBay link:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hot-3m-Stainless-Steel-Probe-High-Temperature-K-Thermocouple-Sensors-10ft-USA-/222003037967?hash=item33b069870f:g:ovQAAOSwqYBWoua i

Thanks for any input.

Mike W1
05-15-2016, 08:58 AM
700c is at least 1200f so you're good to go on that.

MBfrontier
05-15-2016, 09:23 AM
Thanks, Mike.

Since I posted my question I learned that I can set the upper limit of my thermocouple on the controller. I found the video on YouTube to be very helpful in navigating the MYPIN TA4-SNR user manual and how to set up the parameters. My unit is the MYPIN TA4-SSR but close enough to get me started (I think). I'm sure this YouTube video is listed somewhere on this forum but for anyone that is interested, here is the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDlfU2_Anps

So far, I'm having fun with this project. Looking forward to receiving the remaining parts so I can get the unit running, programmed, and working with my pot.

bilco
05-15-2016, 01:55 PM
I am having trouble understanding why the C/F junction in the terminal would not cause a short or problem. If I am seeing this correctly, the negative post from the SSR is attached directly to the hot, or positive, wire from the wall - wouldn't this create some sort of short?

FYI I have an extremely limited understanding when it comes to wiring.

popper
05-15-2016, 02:22 PM
Bilco - STOP. SSR is in series with the wall AC line, either hot or 'cold' side of the AC. BOTH wires of wall AC go to the PID. Consider both as independent circuits. The SSR (+/-) goes to the PID +/- terminals.

bilco
05-15-2016, 02:54 PM
I think I got it now. I didn't understand how the SSR functioned and was looking at in the schematic provided at the start of the thread as a left/right thing not up/down. Makes complete sense now.

MBfrontier
05-20-2016, 08:20 AM
Project done. Holds temp at +/- 2 degrees. Thanks to Mike W1 for sending me the programming parameters.

Heres a pic:
http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/ad183/MBuehner/PID%20Project/IMG_1241_zpssatfni6e.jpg

stu1ritter
05-20-2016, 09:37 AM
Any chance of a copy of those parameters?
thanks,
Stu

Griff
05-30-2016, 02:22 PM
Project done. Holds temp at +/- 2 degrees. Thanks to Mike W1 for sending me the programming parameters.

Any chance of a copy of those parameters?
thanks,
Stu+1. I'm getting a much larger variation on the temps.

MBfrontier
05-30-2016, 05:40 PM
After using my PID for a while now I have been getting more than +/- 2 degrees. I am speaking about after the pot heats up and settles down while I am casting. I have seen it as much as 6 to 8 degrees at times but not nearly enough to be concerned about. I have a fan close by pulling air away from the casting area which may be contributing to the temperature variation. Still a lot better than the temp control on the pot.

I'm in the process of making a fume extractor which will set a little behind and above the pot and vent out a window. It will use a computer fan and a 12v wall plug for power that I saw elsewhere on this website. Thanks for the ideas.

bbogue1
09-14-2017, 01:03 PM
Here is what Wikipedia says a SSR is:
A solid-state relay (SSR) is an electronic switching device that switches on or off when a small external voltage is applied across its control terminals. SSRs consist of a sensor which responds to an appropriate input (control signal), a solid-state electronic switching device which switches power to the load circuitry, and a coupling mechanism to enable the control signal to activate this switch without mechanical parts. The relay may be designed to switch either AC or DC to the load. It serves the same function as an electromechanical relay, but has no moving parts.

HERE ARE MY COMMENTS: It has a low voltage side and a high voltage side. The AC power black wire is interrupted by the SSR (a switch) on it's journey from the wall to the PID to the SSR to the load (Lee Melter). When the PID controller senses a need for more heat in the melter (through the thermocouple) it sends a low voltage signal to the low voltage side of the SSR. The SSR low voltage side switches on (the red light turns on) and switches on the high voltage side allowing 110 AC to continue through the black wire to the load (melter). When the temp in the melter reaches the prescribe desired high temp (the SV) the PID stops the signal to the low voltage side of the SSR and the 110 AC switch opens which halts electricity passage through the black wire. When the PID senses there is sufficient drop in temp the process starts all over again.

PLEASE REFER TO THE WIRING DIRECTIONS ON THE SIDE OF YOUR PID FOR THE PROPER CONNECTIONS ..... The photo below shows how a cheap Rex C100 should be wired and in the lower right corner is the SSR wiring. Carefully follow the black wire and you'l see how it is interrupted by the SSR and you'll see how the SSR can switch the flow of electricity in the black wire on or off. Note the bumps along the white wire; those mean the wires bypass that is they do not connect.

204045

beltfed
04-21-2018, 04:14 PM
Question about the Rex C100 PID controllers:
Can the "0-400 C" range unit be changed to a higher range
by somehow reprogramming or whatever.
Or is in not worth "screwing" with?
Reason I ask is twice,out of 4 orders, when I ordered a 0-1300 C unit, they sent a 0-400.
Not high enough for my desired operating temp on my lead pots
They refunded my money, but said to not return the incorrect 0-400.
Thanks,
beltfed/arnie

Mike W1
04-21-2018, 04:37 PM
Yup

TO CHANGE PV setting on startup sequence to a higher setting

Rex C100 Control Keys
SET KEY
◄ Key Use to select which digit to change
▲ Key Use to Increase digit value
▼ Key Use to Decrease digit value

1. After power on Hold SET key down until
AL 1 appears on screen
2. Press SET repeatedly to cycle to LCK
3. Set LCK to 1000
4. Press SET and ◄ and hold till COD = 0000
shows.
5. Press SET and cycle thru menu
6. When COD = 0001 press SET to cycle thru
menu
7. SLH parameter you can change from 400 to 450
8. Press SET
9. Power unit down
10. Power unit on and startup display should now show
the 450 instead of 400

Walter Laich
04-22-2018, 07:58 PM
^ good to know if I ever need to do that

right now mine is fine for my needs

beltfed
04-22-2018, 08:19 PM
thank you, Mike,
I will try this procedure
Indeed, upping the limit to 450C should be more than high enough for my casting
So far, my first casting run with my usual 9+1 ww/lino ran very well at 404 C setting on
my 0-1300 Rex C100

beltfed/arnie

beltfed
04-23-2018, 11:42 PM
Mike,
I temporarily wired the 0-400 Rex C100
and went thru your procedure, and successfully got it to read 450 C.
and can now set it up to that new limit.
Next to wire it up with the SSR, T/C,etc and try it out
beltfed/arnie

RangeMonkey2009
05-02-2018, 12:28 AM
What size project box did you use? Plastic or metal?

Clutch80
05-05-2018, 09:00 PM
Not being particularly adept at building electronics, I'm wondering if there is somebody who sells these ready to attach to the melting pot.

Hook
03-23-2020, 08:15 PM
Not being particularly adept at building electronics, I'm wondering if there is somebody who sells these ready to attach to the melting pot.

+1....

onelight
03-23-2020, 10:56 PM
There is not any building of components to them more like fitting the parts in a box and running the wires to the proper screw terminals . It is more mechanical assembly of prebuilt components and you can find a lot of good ideas for setting one up by searching here , and the are some good utube tutorials as well.
It is fun to put them together.

Tazlaw
03-24-2020, 08:54 AM
+1....

Hook, I read once where a member was building them. Keep searching. If I run across it again, I’ll post a link.
I just built one and it’s not that hard. Hardest part for me was finding a good enclosure and cutting the holes for the components to fit in. Much more mechanical than electrical.

Preacher Jim
03-24-2020, 09:46 AM
Guys for those who need a reliable unit contact vender sponsor Hatch. He has a good unit and stands behind what he sells.

Camper64
03-24-2020, 10:40 AM
Here is a link to Hatch's PID's. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?344578-VS-120v-220V-PID-setup-UPDATE!

trebleplink
10-17-2020, 10:49 AM
Let me add a bit about heat sinking SSRs. At about five amps for the Lee pot, the SSR doesn't generate much heat, but it still needs to get rid of it. With this load, you can bolt it to an aluminum plate or chassis if it's aluminum.

Previous posters have mentioned using thermal grease - it's often needed but you can cause problems if you use too much - its thermal transfer is NOT as good as metal-to-metal - it is only designed to fill in the microscopic valleys in the metal. The classic mistake is using way too much. Apply just a bit to the SSR and with your finger, smear it around to form a very thin coating - this typically is less than .001" thick. Then bolt it down. If when you bolt it down you see it running out of the joint, you used WAY too much.

ravelode
12-23-2020, 12:27 AM
Here is my REX 100 setup just fired it up.273787

ravelode
12-23-2020, 12:57 AM
Back of box273790
Cut sheet metal from a 80 year old floor furnace I'm removing after we got a new Rinnai

onelight
12-23-2020, 09:58 AM
When I put mine together
I wired all the components together on my bench to make sure I understood the wiring , and that my components were good with a incandescent drop light for the load and watched it cycle on the bench , before cutting holes in the box to mount everything then with my own notes it was easy to reassemble in the box when cutting the wires to fit well in the confined space. Certainly not needed for the more skilled but allowed me to test the parts and my understanding before final assembly.

ravelode
12-30-2020, 04:29 PM
Have had time to use it for a few melts. Wow what a difference this cheap PID has made in being able to produce consistent boolits. Dont belive the calibration is accurate as any setting less than 431°C (807.8°F) results in wrinkled boolits with my usual alloy. Need to get a thermometer someday. It keeps the temp +-3°. Really shows the drop when I add ingots or sprues.

TexPatriot
01-01-2021, 06:13 PM
Bought one from Hatch. Very happy with it.

SEOkie
07-17-2021, 08:01 AM
I need help troubleshooting my PID that I just assembled. I am using a Mypin PID and Inkbird SSR. I believe it is wired correctly per the included diagram and those on this forum. The PID comes on and reads ambient temp correctly. Temp rises when I hold in my hand so TC is working properly and when it hits preset temp the "output" light comes on. I believe that all is well there. The problem is that I cannot get the SSR to respond. There is not any power transferred to the "output" side of the SSR. How many volts should be present on the PID signal wires when the PID output light comes on?

38SuperAuto
07-17-2021, 08:58 AM
Just measured my TA-6 output with T/C below setpoint: DC output of controller was 9.6V

Suggest checking polarity of the SSR input signal. Polarity does matter. Should also verify your SSR is DC input. AC input SSRs also exist. If you are getting a reasonable output drive from your Mypin controller, then you have either an SSR failure or SSR connection failure. Is your SSR fused separately from the controller?

SEOkie
07-17-2021, 09:16 AM
I cannot get any output from the PID either AC or DC. This is on the 3 and 4 pin. ​It does show continuity when active and open when off between those pins.

As far as SSR I don't know if its AC or DC input, but it states 3-32 VDC on the input side so I assume its DC only. Can I test the SSR with a battery or other power supply?

Rizzo
07-17-2021, 02:36 PM
I cannot get any output from the PID either AC or DC. This is on the 3 and 4 pin. ​It does show continuity when active and open when off between those pins.

As far as SSR I don't know if its AC or DC input, but it states 3-32 VDC on the input side so I assume its DC only. Can I test the SSR with a battery or other power supply?
It sounds like your MyPin PID is the type with a relay output rather than the type that supplies voltage to your SSR.
Check the model number of your MyPin to verify what you have.

SEOkie
07-17-2021, 02:43 PM
Here is what I have. It doesn't state TA4 on the display however.
Just TA.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007MMOEWY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Rizzo
07-17-2021, 03:06 PM
Here is what I have. It doesn't state TA4 on the display however.
Just TA.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007MMOEWY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I looked at your link and the description states "Universal Digital PID Temperature Controller RNR Control Out'
Note the RNR, which describes the types of outputs it has. "R" standing for Relay.
An "S" would denote a solid state output (suitable to energize a SSR).

Also if you look at the picture of the device on the left, the nameplate states Output:Relay

A relay output is a "dry" normally open contact.
It sounds like that is what you have.

One way to use the PID would be to replace the SSR (Solid State Relay) with a mechanical relay.
You could use a 120 volt relay with a contact rating suitable for your casting pot,...or whatever.
Wire the hot 120 volt lead through the PID relay output contact to the coil of a 120 volt relay, with the power neutral on the other side of the relay coil.
A 10 amp relay contact should be fine.
If the relay has two contacts, I would wire the contacts in parallel.

Hope that helps.

SEOkie
07-17-2021, 03:11 PM
So it seems my PID doesn't generate the DC power that is required for my SSR. So do I need an AC input SSR and jump power to one side of the controlled relay on the PID, say pin 3. Then go from pin 4 to the AC SSR. Then the other side of input on the SSR would go to ground?

SEOkie
07-17-2021, 03:16 PM
I was responding before I saw you second post. Will this work?
https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-ASH-40AA-70-280VAC-480VAC-Authorized/dp/B01LX9NUEL/ref=sr_1_29?dchild=1&keywords=ac+ssr&qid=1626548434&s=hi&sr=1-29

Mr_Sheesh
07-17-2021, 04:47 PM
Wire the input of the PID's relay to a + voltage suitable to activate your SSR, and the output of the PID's relay to the SSR's + side control input, then the - side of the SSR's control input to ground. Then when the relay activates it will turn the SSR on.

SEOkie
07-17-2021, 05:21 PM
I have it rewired now as stated above. The hot wire runs through the PID controlled relay and to the + side of SSR. I will attach neutral to the - side. I should have the AC SSR in next week. Thanks to all for the help. I have read quite a bit but hadn't picked up on the differences in PID's. I just though that I had a faulty PID.

What is the advantage of the DC SSR (with the correct PID that is)? Does the AC SSR run hotter?

Mr_Sheesh
07-17-2021, 06:02 PM
Relays tend to fail after a large number of cycles, as an Electronics designer I hate the things. SSRs you can cycle an infinite number of times, so long as you don't hit them with a lightning spike and/or too much current they just work. Far more reliable, though lightning will kill them eventually.

AC vs DC is a choice thing, I like DC as I tend to use micro controllers, which put out DC. Either one, if it will do the job, is great; They both run very cool, typically, though for huge loads if the spec sheet says to use a heat sink, do :) I usually run lower power stuff, stepper motors can be fun!

Crankbait
08-15-2021, 12:11 PM
Here is a design schematic for a PID controller for use either electric lead pot or lubersizer.59618

Bodine,
I am a new member who is doing a PID project that I will use to control my Lee 20 lb bottom pour pot and to control y Lee 10 lb bottom pour. I am putting 2 Rex C100 controllers in my box along with 2 volt/amp displays. The issue I am having is with wiring my volt/amp display. The volt/amp display has a red and black wire coming from it and it also came with a round I beliee transformer that has 2 green wires coming from it. Each Rex C100 and it's volt/amp display will have an independent power source. Here are a few pictures of my project. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. 287522

popper
08-15-2021, 03:00 PM
The volt/amp display has a red and black wire coming from it and it also came with a round I beliee transformer that has 2 green wires coming from it. Probably an inductor to smooth out pulse/AC for the meter. Often a CT (control transformer) is used for HIGH voltage/current (like industrial power systems)
Actually absolutely no need for this (V/A display). The output to the pot will be 115 (line volts) turned on and off. Current will be determined by the resistance of the heating element.

Crankbait
08-15-2021, 03:33 PM
Probably an inductor to smooth out pulse/AC for the meter. Often a CT (control transformer) is used for HIGH voltage/current (like industrial power systems)
Actually absolutely no need for this (V/A display). The output to the pot will be 115 (line volts) turned on and off. Current will be determined by the resistance of the heating element.

I realize the volt/amp display is not needed to run my lead pots with the PIDs but I have already put them in the box cutouts and would like to use them just as well being they are already there. I am to the point where my SSRs are mounted and I am ready to wire my PIDs and the volt/amp displays. Do you know how I should wire in the volt/amp displays. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

slim1836
08-15-2021, 06:57 PM
I realize the volt/amp display is not needed to run my lead pots with the PIDs but I have already put them in the box cutouts and would like to use them just as well being they are already there. I am to the point where my SSRs are mounted and I am ready to wire my PIDs and the volt/amp displays. Do you know how I should wire in the volt/amp displays. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

This is what I used when I built mine, don't know if it will help your case as I'm electrically challenged.

287540

Slim

Crankbait
08-15-2021, 09:54 PM
This is what I used when I built mine, don't know if it will help your case as I'm electrically challenged.

287540

Slim

Thank you for the assistance. I got the bulk of the wiring done on my PIDs minus the amperage display. The right PID keeps flashing 000 as the process value so I have to figure out what's going on there. Here is a picture of what it looks like so far.
Photo always turns seems no matter what I do.

Crankbait
08-15-2021, 11:45 PM
Hey all,
I like many others are getting into casting, couple questions, is it okay to melt your wheel weights in your pot such as the lee 420, I want to do this to control the temp in case there is any zinc, don't want to go above 725. with all this talk about thermo couplers couldn't you just put water in the pot and see what temp for each number on the reo-stat. ( I know not to get water near the pot with lead in it)
any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Brian

IMO you're far better off to get a turkey fryer burner and a large cast iron kettle or pot. I hand sort the wheel weights into 3 different buckets (Steel & zinc, clip on lead WW, stick on lead WW) being the clip ons are harder and the stick on softer. I flux with either canning wax or Frankford Armory flux but lately I've been using the F.A. flux more as it seems like it works better. One thing I have also found to greatly speed up sorting is to use a rare earth magnetic stud finder. I pick up as many weights as the magnet will hold and sort them reach the magnet down for another load and so on. Much easier on the back. As far as relying on the dial of your Lee melter for temperature control i would strongly suggest putting in some type of ventilation system. I got an inline fan and ducting to build mine for under $50. The Lee pot will be too cold to start with and too hot when you finish IMO. The hard crust that some people have develop on top of the lead is actually lead oxides which begin to form at 900 degrees and lead fumes also. I am going to a PID controller plus my existing ventillation system. Just my 2 cents.

popper
08-16-2021, 01:44 PM
If the 'coil has 3 wires, it is a hall transformer, if 2 it's just a 'core' transformer - you wind your wire through it to get a higher reading on the amp scale. Nice setup you have there.
FYI for others, you just need the PID controller (SSR output), K thermocouple (get several, they break) and a good 55 Amp SSR AND reasonably large heat sink. SSR failure is usually getting too hot.

Mike W1
08-16-2021, 05:42 PM
Flashing zeros, likely a bad TC or associated bad wiring connection.

Rizzo
08-18-2021, 03:34 PM
Bodine,
I am a new member who is doing a PID project that I will use to control my Lee 20 lb bottom pour pot and to control y Lee 10 lb bottom pour. I am putting 2 Rex C100 controllers in my box along with 2 volt/amp displays. The issue I am having is with wiring my volt/amp display. The volt/amp display has a red and black wire coming from it and it also came with a round I beliee transformer that has 2 green wires coming from it. Each Rex C100 and it's volt/amp display will have an independent power source. Here are a few pictures of my project. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. 287522
I have a similar Volt/Amp meter.
Red and Black are for the voltage to be measured.
I would connect those in parallel with the Lee pot.
Caution here to make sure the meter's input is not exceeded.
It should handle the 120 vac (or 220 vac) going to the pot.

That round device is a current transformer.
Run one lead going to the pot through the center of that Current Transformer.
The other two wires (green) go to the current input on the Volt/Amp meter.
That's it.

Voltage measurements are wired in parallel and current measurements are wired in series with the load.

Also, that Current Transformer "steps down" the current value to a value that the meter can handle.

Hope this helps.

popper
08-18-2021, 05:12 PM
Run one lead going to the pot through the center of that Current Transformer
CTs are calibrated, should match the meter. If your reading is low you can wrap turns of the hot lead through the core. If the CT is NOT correct for your meter, your reading reading is not of much value. It will tell you if the heating element/SSR is bad (open). Your meter should go between the SSR and the pot, readings will flicker as the SSR goes on and off. One could use an LED/neon 120V test light for the same trouble shooting info.

Crankbait
08-23-2021, 04:25 AM
I have a similar Volt/Amp meter.
Red and Black are for the voltage to be measured.
I would connect those in parallel with the Lee pot.
Caution here to make sure the meter's input is not exceeded.
It should handle the 120 vac (or 220 vac) going to the pot.

That round device is a current transformer.
Run one lead going to the pot through the center of that Current Transformer.
The other two wires (green) go to the current input on the Volt/Amp meter.
That's it.

Voltage measurements are wired in parallel and current measurements are wired in series with the load.

Also, that Current Transformer "steps down" the current value to a value that the meter can handle.

Hope this helps.

Thank you for the advice. I haven't hooked up my amp meter yet but my volt meter is working. I poured about 50 lbs of catfishing sinkers tonight with my PID unit. After watching Elvis Ammo's video on setting up his Lee 4/20 with his PID I decided to run my thermocouple to the nut on the pour spout. I am also using an analog lead thermometer in the pot. I am finding that with my PID set to 420 degrees C (788 F) my lead analog thermometer is reading about 825 degrees F, so I seem to have about a roughly 40 degree F offset by running my thermocouple to the pour spout. The Rex C100 seems to keep the temp steady also.

SteveM54
12-08-2021, 09:17 AM
Adding one of these to my new Lee 4-20 bottom pour this coming weekend.