Lube Contaminated Powder w/bevel base

[243winxb]

Casting a 200 gr 45 acp Lyman #452630 Bevel base bullet, using GAR 50/50 alox 2138F & pure beeswax. 3.8gr of bullesye, Sizing in a old lyman 450 to .452"dia. The sizing die has the 2 last holes in the die plugged to try and keep some of the lube off the bevel base part of the bullet. After sizing i wipe base of the bullet on an old towel, seems i did not get the lube all off?? I had 2 missfires from powder contaminated by lube out of 170 rounds so far. 1 round would not fire, the 2nd round lodged in the barrel. My questions is 1. is there a way to keep the lube from getting on the bevel base in the first place? 2. What commerical soft lube should i buy to replace this lube as its no longer made.(dont want to mix my own.) Thank you in advance , i been casting 40+ years, but using a BB for 5, never happened before.

[OLPDon]

take lead shot and place it in the bottom holes of the die to prrevent lube from filling the bottom of boolit
Don

[Bass Ackward]

Thank you in advance , i been casting 40+ years, but using a BB for 5, never happened before.

Winnie,

Well, 50/50 Alox will thin if it gets warm, but I thought you would have seen it before now. (5 years) If you haven't pulled a few and actually seen the problem, I would suspect primers first.

Only two missfires in 5 years sure beats me.

[Blammer]

store the ammo bullets down.

[Dale53]

Back in the 70's, I attended a week long IPSC school at the Ray Chapman Academy. The weather was horribly hot (106 degrees for several days and not a cloud in the sky). The "floors" of the ranges were crushed white limestone. It was as if we were being roasted on a spit. No shade, etc.

I had a .50 caliber ammo box (dark O.D. in color) and let the box sit in the direct sun about 20 minutes. I was plagued with misfires the rest of the term (others were having problems, also). It was so hot that the lube melted and contaminated the powder. The upside was I got a lot of practice with "Clearing drills"[smilie=1:

I have, ever since, taken particular pains to protect my ammunition. I haven't had a problem since. When I go to a multi day shoot where it is hot, I keep the ammo in a cooler (no ice or anything, just use the cooler for its insulation). It gets everything somewhat cool overnight and never heats up past the critical point during the day). Just the miracle of insulation.

Works for me...

Dale53

[Blackwater]

Here in Ga. where the temps get to 100+ at times, and are in the 90's pretty much all summer, and where the humidity is exceedingly high (high humidities store a LOT more BTU's of actual heat than dryer air, and radiate that out, plus inhibit the cooling effect of sweating, further enhancing the actual temps), I used to have some significant problems using NRA formula 50/50 mixes. That lube was just too soft to stay solid in the heat of a locked truck or car. I eventually went to all J-bullets in my guns for defensive use because of that, and kept my cast ammo in the house until I went out to shoot.

I actually never had that many misfires due to the melted lube, though. Like you, once every now and then. However, knowing it COULD happen at a VERY inopertune moment, I adjusted my use accordingly. Now, I think I'd just add some white cooking parafin from the grocery store, or some carnuba (Johnson's Paste Wax) to harden the lube in summer, and experiment until I got a lube that'd take the heat. I bet Felix can help here? Maybe?

I always TRIED to park under a shade tree, but that just wasn't always possible. Most ranges I've shot on aren't any better, either, though you can stow your ammo under the bleachers if your range has some. Throwing a towel over the ammo helps some, but in a locked vehicle it'll still get hot - it'll just take a bit longer to hit top temps in the vehicle.

I've actually been meaning to try some harder/higher melt point lubes this summer to see what I could come up with, but haven't gotten my round tuit yet. Lots to do, and the heat's so bad (and I don't "tote" that as well as I used to, either), that I haven't remembered this lil' detail. It's sure darn good weather to try it out, I can assure you THAT!

Locked vehicles can exceed 140 and even 150 degrees I'm told. I believe it, though I never cared to measue it in any of mine. Reflectors in the windshields help, but again, heat's a lot like water - eventually, it'll find its way to wherever it wants to go.

[GP100man]

243
first let me welcome you to the :cbpour: forum!!!
theres a members here that offers loobes lar45 &bullshop
its a sticky in cast boolits i think .
ive had exp with carnauba red & so far no problems with contaminated powder& ive had some ammo really hot in my dark f150 & was realy expecting a squib but none happened, i had lees 158gr.rnfp loobed with carnauba red 3.5 gr of clays in a starline case wsp primer all lite off good!!


yep rite here in cbs

GP100man :castmine:

[grumpy one]

I see this in very simple terms. If you put hydrocarbons inside the case, they are going to find and ruin the primer over time. So, to avoid misfires you do a combination of two things. First, you minimise the use of hydrocarbons in the case. This is mostly a matter of picking a low-volatility, low-hydrocarbon lube and cleaning it off the bullet base; diffusion past the bullet both into the case and into the outside air will then only happen slowly. Second, you don't store assembled cast-bullet ammunition. You only load it when you know you will shoot it within several weeks.

I once stored some loaded cast-bullet ammunition for 8 years. Those bullets were lubed with a mixture of colloidal graphite and beeswax, and I hadn't cleaned it off the bullet bases. When I finally fired them I had 3 misfires in 75 rounds, and restriking them didn't set them off. I regard that level of reliability as totally unsatisfactory for hunting purposes, and too stupid to contemplate for defence purposes.

Since switching to 50/50 alox/beeswax, wiping the bullet bases, and shooting all loaded ammunition within two months of loading it, I've never had a misfire with Winchester primers (the only brand I've used until recently). Not long ago I ran out of Winchesters and bought 1,000 PMC because they were cheap. I've had two misfires with the first 150 PMCs. I think both were caused by seating problems because those primers are oversize in both diameter and depth. Both fired accurately when re-struck. Based on this experience I think misfires are very unlikely if you follow my two rules: minimize hydrocarbons, and don't store loaded cast-bullet ammunition. Just the same, I would never recommend cast-bullet ammunition for defensive use because hydrocarbons and primers just don't mix well. Bad practice is bad practice, even if you mitigate the error to the extent possible.

[454PB]

Solution #1 Don't use bevel base boolits

Solution #2 If you must use bevel base boolits, wipe the bases clean after sizing.

Solution #3 Lee liquid alox

Solution #4 Make (or have someone make) a center punch for your sizing
die that is machine relieved to prevent the bevel from being
lubed.

Solution #5 Get a Star sizer and adjust it so that it doesn't lube the bevel.

[243winxb]

Back in the 70's, I attended a week long IPSC school at the Ray Chapman Academy. The weather was horribly hot (106 degrees for several days and not a cloud in the sky). The "floors" of the ranges were crushed white limestone. It was as if we were being roasted on a spit. No shade, etc.

I had a .50 caliber ammo box (dark O.D. in color) and let the box sit in the direct sun about 20 minutes. I was plagued with misfires the rest of the term (others were having problems, also). It was so hot that the lube melted and contaminated the powder. The upside was I got a lot of practice with "Clearing drills"[smilie=1:

I have, ever since, taken particular pains to protect my ammunition. I haven't had a problem since. When I go to a multi day shoot where it is hot, I keep the ammo in a cooler (no ice or anything, just use the cooler for its insulation). It gets everything somewhat cool overnight and never heats up past the critical point during the day). Just the miracle of insulation.

Works for me...

Dale53

I like the cooler idea, ty

[felix]

There exists some paraffins that have extreme melting points. They typically are called microwaxes in the literature, so you can google for locations to purchase. You don't need much of any to augment a lube. Higher the melting point, the less you will need to raise the temp of your batch on hand. The mixrowax is cheap because there is not much demand for it. It is used by the investment casting folks more than anybody else. Any more than 10 pounds for a lifetime of home made lube would be a joke. ... felix

[BruceB]

The weather gets hot here in the high desert of Northern Nevada, too. It's been hitting well over 100 degrees daily for the last week or two.

For at least three years, and maybe longer, I had a couple thousand rounds of 50/50-lubed handgun ammo stored in an un-cooled shed as well as in Der Schuetzenwagen, my dark-maroon GMC shooting van. Temperatures for both locations certainly went far above 100 degrees on many occasions.

When I decided it was time to use this ammo, I was surprised and pleased to have NO misfires or bloopers, and in fact found that the ammunition was within normal limits when chronographed.

"Yes", to not using bevel-base designs. "Yes", to wiping all lube from the bases when sizing and lubing. "Yes", to storing ammo with bullets down, even though my bulk handgun ammo is stored loose in large plastic boxes from WalMart..

Also, if your ammo carriers (like .50-cal cans) are dark-colored, PAINT THE SUCKERS WHITE. Spray cans are cheap, and you will cut the temp buildup by a huge amount.

I now keep a small A/C unit running at low settings all the time in the shed for summer ammo protection. Temps might be in the high 80s/low 90s....much better than 110 or more. However, the van still carries many hundreds of rounds at all times, and still gets VERY hot, so I try to rotate the stock fairly frequently. Still no heat-related ammo problems, though.