Casting or reloading equipment?

[wolfe28]

So I've got some Christmas money left, and I'm trying to decide what I want to do. Currently, all the cast boolets that I shoot are those that I buy from someplace. I do all my reloading on a single stage press. So, should I get a turret press so I can reload faster and shoot more, or should I get the equipment to cast my own boolets and continue to use the single stage press? I don't have enough money to do both. I could get the casting pot and the new press, but I couldn't afford the other stuff to be really able to use either. Also, the budget won't allow for any big purchases for a while, so if I can't start using something right away because I don't have all the stuff (auto primer, sizing dies, etc), it will sit for a while.

Thoughts and suggestions?

D

[wingnut49b]

Depends if you like shooting or tinkering more... I thought I like shooting, but I seem to spend more hours casting and loading. I have learned lots though. That seems to be what makes me smile most.

[bbqncigars]

If you shoot a lot of one or two calibers, then a progressive would be a good move.

[wolfe28]

I like shooting. Reloading is what I do when I can't get to the range and have some time in the evening or on weekends. It also keeps me busy when I'm grumbling about the fact that I didn't get squat during hunting season. I like to reload, but that's because I like to see what I can do with my handloads. For me, it is all part of the shooting hobby, and I enjoy all of it.

D

[Walter Laich]

don't have two half-finished projects going....get one complete and then start working on the other

[geargnasher]

I can't stand beer, so don't listen to me!

Gear

[wolfe28]

I thought about a progressive, but it's just not where I want to put what money I do have. I reload 9mm, 357 mag and 45 in handguns, 22 hornet, 223, 308, 357 Remington Max and 45-70 in rifle, and 12 gauge, and I need to be as economical about it as possible (using powders that can work for multiple calibers and projectiles, etc.). Having a progressive that I can only use for part of that, or have to spend a bunch to convert from one caliber to another is not something I can afford. I've got friends that have progressives, and they really like them, it's just not something I can think about right now.

D

[K7addict]

I recently decided to invest in casting materials myself. I saw it as a way to shoot morr for less in the long term. I also like that I will gain personal satisfaction that I created something more than most guys I know and the fact that lead is easier to source online/locally than bullets/boolits. Just my .02 sir.

[462]

I still reload use single-stage, though there are two of them. Get the casting equipment.

[wolfe28]

I can't stand beer, so don't listen to me!

Gear

I'll listen, I just won't trust you. :mrgreen:

D

[williamwaco]

I loaded for 20 years on a single stage press.
Still do for everything but .38 Special.
You can too.

Concentrate on dies and casting equipment until you have complete setup for everything you load.
Then start saving up for the turret.

BUT!

Buying a pot when you have no molds ? ? ? Not sure that makes a lot of sense.

One more thing. DO NOT waste your money on that Lee 10 pound pot. It is a toy.

Save up until you can buy a Lee two cavity mold, a Lee sizing kit, and the Lee 20 pound pot all at the same time.

Alternatively, buy the mold and sizing kit and a Lyman ladle ( NOT the Lee ladle ) look around the house for some kind of steel pot your wife will give you. If that doesn't fly ( and it probably will not ) take a trip to GoodWill or a garage sale and buy a used steel pot (NOT aluminum ), two quarts is large enough . Then find a used hot plate to heat it. Now for less than $60 you can cast for your first caliber. Adding calibers will be $40 for the mold and sizing kit.

Do NOT believe the hype about shooting Lee ( or any other ) bullets unsized. You will not be happy with the results.

[engineer401]

I can't stand beer, so don't listen to me!

Gear

I love beer and whiskey and Long Island ice teas..............

If you are already set up for complete reloading I would get the casting equipment and worry about the progressive or turret press later. There is a wealth of knowledge here from casters with decades of experience who can help you make casting a pleasure. When I began casting I thoroughly enjoyed it and went from there. One thing to note, I sold my single stage press when I purchased a progressive press some years ago. I found I shouldn't have sold it and bought another for decapping, bullet pulling, rifle resizing, primer pocket swaging, etc.

[ncbearman]

One more thing. DO NOT waste your money on that Lee 10 pound pot. It is a toy.



I disagree totally. I started very inexpensively with the 10 pound and learned quite well producing some great .45 HP's. Stay away from tumble lube moulds and Lee sizer. You will end up needing a 450 Lyman sizer or comparable somewhere along the line. Here is some of the first HP's I made from that 10# "toy"

59503

[Fishman]

Yeah, "a toy". Really!? I still use mine for everything. Not awesome, but adequate. I would agree the 20 lb pot is a better choice.

I also shot thousands of unsized boolits over the years, including a lee tl 358 158 gr. That particar boolit shot well in everything I put it in and still does. Inexpensive casting gear can work very well.

[1bluehorse]

Do you have a source for lead, cheap? Do you WANT to cast, some seem to like it as much as reloading. I don't. Do you have a place to melt lead and cast, it does smoke and smell you know....I cast because with the price of bullets, lead or jacketed, I wouldn't be able to shoot near as much, like maybe a third as much..and I like shooting. I also like reloading. I endure casting.

[Pitchnit]

I was in the same place as you about this time last year. You can keep loading with the single stage as I was. I got set up for casting with a turkey fryer, steel pot, Lee 6 banger and sizing die. With the 6 banger I could make 2-3 weeks of 45 acp in a couple hours. The trouble is that once you make 1000 boolits you want to go shoot them up so you can cast some more. At that point you will have some incentive to save up for the turret press. So the real question would be-Do you reload to shoot or shoot to cast. I would set up for casting it is very gratifying. Oh, I like tequila, the good stuff, 100% agave. Regards-Pitchnit

[Any Cal.]

If you don't have a turret or progressive, it would be easier to keep up with the casting for your shooting habit.

I like the 6 cav molds, if you have a camp stove and can scrounge a steel pot, it won't take much to get into casting. The Lee pots DO speed things up, but are not a requirement. The sizing isn't necessarily a requirement either, I only have one sizer die for several different boolit sizes, and they worked fine before I got the sizer.

My reccomendation is to get started casting and pan lubing as cheaply as possible. If you have to buy the Lyman ladle, spend the extra few bucks and get a bottom pour pot. Pan lube w/ some homemade lube on a cake pan, i get about the same speed doing that or using a lubersizer. Don't size unless your cartridges won't chamber.

Once you have some boolits, reassess your situation. It may be that $125 will get you started w/ a .358 mold and a bottom pour pot, and you still have another $100 to go toward a used turret press or a couple more molds, or a used luber-sizer and a die or two, depending on your needs.

[nwellons]

I have found I like to cast as much as I like to reload and I love to reload. And to shoot. And to collect.

I use the smallest ($35) Lee single stage press (2 of them) and the 10# pot (with the lee ladle.) I started small and never saw the need to upgrade.

I reload and cast for .42 Russian Berdan, .43Egyptian, .45ACP, .44 Russian, 7.62Nagant, and .30 carbine. My son uses my equipment to reload .308.

The small presses work fine; if hard to work it just means more case lube needed. I only neck size the 2 largest calibers and full size the rest. I have to size the boolits for the .42 Russian, .45 ACP and .30 carbine only.

Of course, if you are one who shoots many hundreds of rounds per range trip like many target shooters, your needs would be different. It just depends on how much you shoot. I don't get to the range but about once every six weeks and take 5 or 6 different caliber guns with me each time. I like less shooting but more variety.

[Sasquatch-1]

Some one ask the right question. Do you have a source of lead? If so casting can be fun. I enjoy smelting the range scrap and then making the bullets and the cores I use for swaging. ALL of my casting stuff is Lee. I have a 35 year old 10lb bottom pour pot several single and double cavity molds. No 6 cavity molds. I do have a RCBS LAM but that adds $30 to $40 to each caliber you load for sizing dies and top punches.

The other question is how many primers do you have? A local gunshop just made an announcement that they may not be able to get primers for another 6 to 9 months. From their posting it seems all the primers are going to the production of loaded ammo. So it doesn't matter how many boolits you may have if you have nothing to make the powder go POP!

I would suggest you see what you can find in the primer supply and buy as many as you can afford at a REASONABLE price. If you can't find any primers then go back to buying casting stuff 'cause you gonna have a whole lot of extra time to cast in.

[Charlie Two Tracks]

Get whatever it takes to make you completely independent of having to buy anything so you can shoot. If lead was outlawed, where do you get your boolits? Stock up on the basic components and equipment. It is better to have a single stage press than to have a turret press and no boolits to load.

[mdi]

Which came first? Chicken or egg? You can reload and shoot with only the reloading equipment, but you can only cast (not reload, not shoot) with the casting equipment. So what do you wanna do? Shoot or cast boolits?

[Harter66]

You've a press and dies. Basic components. I'd opt for the casting gear. I've loaded roughly 10,000 rounds of cast on a single stage over 6 years,and been happy doing it. Lee tools are inexpensive, I prefer to say cost effective , their a great place to start. Knowing now what I didn't then,I would suggest the 20# also. My hot plate won't put out enough to keep the lead hot enough to pour. I used the turkey burner for 3 yrs until a dipper pot came along cheap. Frankly w/range scrap and scrounged WW I still come in about $14/100 for everything I load 9mm to 06'. That's less than bullets. I own just 5 sizers ,357,323,301,310,316 the last 3 are for paper patched in 5 rifles. The 1st 2 cover a 9mm for 38/357 boolits and a 32 spcl.rifle. I've only $400 in in single function casting gear for 9 Cal ,18 cartridges and 4 ML cal.

[bobthenailer]

In a short time you will have saved enough money by casting your own bullets to pay for the casting
equipment ! as well as the new turret press ! the turret press will save you no money, only load your ammo faster, then you wiil shoot more and need more bullets.
I as well as most people dont reload & cast to save money ! its so we can shoot more for the same amount of money and enjoy the hobby / obsession with reloading & casting and the idea of doing it yourself.
IF you dont have the reloading dies for the caliber you want to reload ? get them first so you can reload.

[stubshaft]

Loading faster is great but, if you don't have any boolits what are you going to load?

[HATCH]

I started out with a pro4-20 pot, a miha mold, lyman 45, and a dilion 550.
I guess i started out better then most because my brother is No_1 on here and he gave me the 550 & 45nut gave me the lyman 45. I bought the rest.

Since i lost my mind (according to me wife) I have purchased and automated a master caster. Purchased 14 molds for it. Got a star sizer with a bunch of dies (working on automating it).

I wouldn't invest in a single stage press. My time is worth more.
I would get the new lyman PID controlled pot which comes.out in April. Look for deals on molds and start buying.
Most of my.magma molds were less then $50.00
New they.are 85.00

[ncbearman]

I would get the new lyman PID controlled pot which comes out in April.

This intrigues me..............Where can I get more info on this subject?

[Texantothecore]

The casting equipment and become independent of the supply line (and crazy fed rules) for bullets.

Save all of your primers, you may have to rebuild them using matcheads at some point.

Try some black powder loads. You can make black powder on your kitchen table.

One of the joys of casting is that you can create loads that you cannot purchase. I do this all the time with Round Ball in my .45-70.

Casting is a real joy.
Good Luck.

[DLCTEX]

I would get casting equipment. I don't know if I can stand beer anymore or not as I drank it full time till I got it done. I don't like the smell anymore.So it's your call as to trust my judgement.

[Lance Boyle]

Boy I'd have to understand where you are and where you want to go.

volume wanted/desired
accuracy quality level desired/will you get discouraged when it isn't perfect in the beginning?
investable money? -you already said it's an issue, understood completely
investable time?
good source of lead? I'm finding that to be a limiter for me. I can't wait until spring and I can use my home made dirt screen to collect range lead. WW's are no longer going to be Pb here. I have 2 choices buy (online or from scrap yards) or range dig.
Are you wanting/needing bullets that aren't available commercially?


If you're a big volume shooter shooting lots of pistol rounds in practice and matches every weekend then maybe you want to up grade to a progressive down the road. A turret press in my opinion does little to nothing over a single stage. Really how long does it take to screw the dies in and out? If you're not going to a progressive then I say stick with your current press and get some basic casting gear.


Weigh out those factors. If you're looking to do some reduced power target rifle loads I say casting is a god send. You're lead will go farther shooting rifle than blasting it all away shooting .44's and and 45's as much as I enjoy them.

If you're patient you can pick up stuff used, much more reasonably here, on Ebay, other gun boards, Craigslist, or at your local clubs. (A WTB index card on the bullitin board often dredges dusty forgotten stuff up). I got my RCBS Lubramatic off a different gunboard with a RCBS Rockchucker, several die sets, a rcbs 10-10 scale, and a box of loading fooferall gadgets for about a hundred bucks. I sold off/traded the die sets and some of the gadgets and gave some away and pretty much paid for the other gear.

I would stick to one project at a time, get a stainless pot at the 2nd hand store, a dipper ladle, and a mold for your number one priority gun. A lead theromometr is a good tool for a newb too. I think Swede sells a good one right here.

for rifle I like single or double cav molds and now that I'm getting into it I'm seeing the light on custom molds as opposed to fighting Lyman or Lee to get the mold right. With the repeated return shipping you are spending as much as the custom mold that's much more likely to be done right. For pistol I'm liking 3-4 cavity molds.

This is from a relative newb for what it's worth, I'm maybe a year or two ahead of ya.

[David2011]

An IPSC shooter I know only has a single stage press. He loads enough .38 Super to feed his open class gun and he shoots every match available within 2 hours of his house. Back when I was young and had very limited resources I cast boolits and loaded on an RCBS Jr2 which I still have and use from time to time. I was able to shoot 300-400 rounds every trip to the range. You can shoot a lot even with a single stage press but without primers, powder and boolits your gun is an expensive club.

Get and keep yourself as independent as possible for now and add the higher speed loading equipment after you have all of the basics working to your satisfaction. My rifle shooting will be compromised as my j-word supply dwindles. The things I do with a rifle don't lend themselves to cast boolits. I'll still be able to shoot all the pistol matches I want because after a couple of primer and powder crunches I've learned to keep an adequate stock of supplies to allow me to continue shooting 20K-30K/year even if I can't get supplies for a while. I shoot boolits almost 100% in my handguns so as long as the casting metal inventory holds out I can continue as normal.

David

[snuffy]

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=645810 $64.99 On sale right now- $58.49

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=789762 $19.99

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=116429 $18.99

$97.47

This is the basic cost for a set-up that would get you ready to cast for a 45 auto. melt the lead, pour the bullet, lube it by tumbling, then run it through the sizer. Ready to load. And YES you can use the tumble lube for conventional lube groove bullets!

The Lee Pro 4 20 Lb Furnace is the best one they make, it has the ability to function as a bottom pour, and enough room to allow you to use a ladle if you want to try that method.

The above prices would be the same no matter which handgun caliber(S) you may have. The same would go for rifle, the 2 cav lee molds all cost about the same money. Occasionally midway has a sale that will save a couple bucks off a mold, or other stuff.

The above stuff would get you started with one boolit. The addition of other molds expands the capability. Step up to a Lyman/RCBS lubrisizer after you get the hang of basic casting.

As for the turret, forget the Redding, Lyman, RCBS, and a few others that are called turrets,(correctly named). The one other that's called a turret is the Lee classic turret. It SHOULD be called something else, since it operates completely different from the other turrets. It auto advances!. Presenting the next die on the downstroke. It also costs way LESS than the others.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/814175/lee-classic-4-hole-turret-press

Out of stock so get the casting stuff first, by then you'll have boolits to load on a new turret press. BUT for under 200 bucks you could do both.

[Finarfin]

If your current press allows quick change, I might not be too pressed to upgrade it. I wouldn't start into casting if you can't get everything you'd need. If you can, then it is great stuff. I love casting.

[dromia]

This intrigues me..............Where can I get more info on this subject?

The Lyman web site.

http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/bullet-casting/mag25furnace.php

[Beau Cassidy]

Buy casting stuff now. Everybody who panicked bought reloading stuff over the last month will soon be selling it off cheap out of disinterest or inability to get components. You will be able to get nice stuff cheap.

[wolfe28]

Buy casting stuff now. Everybody who panicked bought reloading stuff over the last month will soon be selling it off cheap out of disinterest or inability to get components. You will be able to get nice stuff cheap.

Good point. Frankly, the panic buying is quite annoying. Anyway, thanks for all the advice. I've got most of my wishlist put together and I'll probably place my order for the casting equipment this weekend. The tire shop where we take our cars can set me up with scrap wheel weights, but I'll have to pay for them. I'm okay with that because I know the guys there, and they're not going to rip me off. I'll keep my eye out for free stuff.

As for why I want to start casting, because I want more control over the process. Reloading and casting to me are just different aspects of my shooting/hunting hobby. I enjoy shooting, I enjoy reloading, and I figure that I'll enjoy casting just as much. I already tailor my loads to each individual firearm, so being able to have a little more control over the type of projectile is just the next logical step.

Also, I like food. I just started "hunting" in the past few years. I still put "hunting" in quotes because I have yet to bring home what I set out to get, and what I have brought home has been legal "targets of opportunity" (needing to unload the muzzleloader during deer season and there is a squirrel in front of me, and it's also small game season). I'm also one of those "poor sods" that didn't grow up in a hunting family. I've had to learn it all by talking to folks, reading what you all post, and just getting out there. Even though it's been little more than a walk in the woods while carrying a rifle, it's completely different than just going hiking (which I also enjoy). I really see casting and reloading as an extension of being able to put food on the table.

D

[badgeredd]

Wise choice IMHO. One can add a Lee Classic Turret press a bit down the road. I have Three presses set up, 2 are single stage and one a Lee classic turret. I shoot a fair amount, but for me, a progressive hasn't made sense on my budget as yet. I've hand loaded nearly 40 years so when I started casting, I was pretty much set up for hand loading. I have added the turret press and another single stage press that replaced a lesser single stage. Speed has it's advantages, but when you can afford it, you'll find you can at least triple your loading sopeed with a turret so then it becomes a matter of how fast do you really want to go over the cost of doing so. Like cars, speed costs money...how fast do you want to go?

Edd

[dakotashooter2]

If you have a decent heat source like a turkey fryer a cast iron pot can be used. They can be found at yard sales. I've even seen some that would hold 15-20# of lead for $20 or under. I have a bottom pour 10# lee but I run a cast iron on my wood stove to refill it with to eliminate some down time and keep the temp consistent. Spend the few bucks more and get the 20# lee pot if you go that route. Get powder and primers ASAP. I'm not sure bullets will see the shortages that the other components will but with what you will save by casting your own you can afford to stock up on the primers and powder. You will see a return on your dollars faster with the casting settup than the turrent press. Not as fast as a turrent but I actually run 2 presses side by side and get faster production than out of a single press. A bonus is you may be able to trade your cast bullets for other components.

[1Shirt]

Get all of it you need as soon as you can afford it. In the meanwhile establish your own priority and stick to it.
1Shirt!

[RobS]

I agree with bobthenailer, casting equipment......you can make up your money this route vs buying and then in time buy reloading equipment with the savings of making your own.

[Phoenix]

I may not be a good person to ask this. I am in reality a reloader/caster first a shooter second. I like to shoot but I seem to find myself spending alot of time casting, prepping brass and reloading. Last year I was injured the previous fall and I couldnt do alot. I meticulously prepped 20,000 brass and cast 300 lbs of lead. I had little else I could do. I didnt reload much because I couldnt shoot much. Even now I find myself looking at new molds, new designs, New lube ideas. I just started making my own case lube. I bet I have shot less than 300 rounds of ammo in the last year but I have enough ready supplies to reload 20k round in 9 calibers. Lately I have been sorting through my casted bullets and pulling out 20% of them because I decided to change my standards. I will be recasting those.

I still use a single stage press. Too much room for error with a progressive, just thinking about it gives me a headache. I would probably buy what you need to start casting the caliber you shoot most. A turret is the same as a single stage with less time spent messing with dies.

Cast, lube work up loads, deal with sizing as related to leading. etc that gives you plenty to do and think about without spending a fortune. I know some people just cast, tumble lube and load. Personally I am way to meticulous for that.

I am with the others above me that says get the casting equipment first. Although I would only buy one or two calibers to start with just in case you hate casting. (did I just say that?)

Phoenix

[khmer6]

i faced this decision too. i decided it was cast for me! i thought i like shooting a lot. but i like reloading wayyyyy more. being able to tinker and work up the "perfect" load with home made cast sold me on it. i do a lot of reloading, and buy in bulk all the time. i will always max out a hazmat tag, 50k primers, 48lbs of powder and such. since i was going to start reloading for the 8mm mauser, mosin, and sks, i figure better invest in casting equipment. plus i shoot nearly every pistol caliber under the sun. the casting equipment has already paid for itself in such a short time.

[wolfe28]

Good Morning;

My stuff is on the way. When it all gets here, I'll be set up to cast for 9mm, 357 mag and max (with gas checks; I'm going all out here:mrgreen:), and 45-70. I opted to wait on the 45 ACP mold, just because I have plenty of berry's plated projectiles for that currently. The 45 mold will be the next addition.
I'll pick up my first batch of lead on Saturday, so I have a little time to scrounge a pot, ladle, and muffin tin from Salvation Army to smelt in (yes, I'm going to use the muffin tin to make the ingots in; that was a tip I picked up here a while ago).
Due to back orders, my first home-cast rounds should head down range in early March.

D

[astroskg]

sounds like you already have a single stage press, although a turret would process complete rounds faster you already have a way to make the rounds , i would get the casting equiptment so you had that side of reloading covered, and won't be at the mercy of someone else casting for you or having to buy bullets, if you have the press, and casting equipment all you have to purchase is primers and powder, stock pile when you can , if you can cast and have primers and powder there is no reason why you won't be able to shoot when you want.

just my 2 cents

[375RUGER]

+1 on CTT.
Besides the cost of the moulds, I can cast any thing I want with about 35 dollars worth equipment. Hot plate and stainless sauce pan from the thrift store and a good bottom pour ladle. Now, how much does that leave you to spend?
I don't need my Pro-melt but it's sure nice to have, and I only do about 1/2 my casting with it. I still ladle pour some things.
I pan lube and use lee push thru for sizing. it's slow but one more pan is cheap from the thrift store and cutters are easy to make with spent brass.
You don't have to break the bank to get started casting.
I'd personally rather buy good moulds and cast with my $35 setup as to buy cheap moulds and cast with a $300 pot.

[wolfe28]

Good Evening;

It feels like Christmas here, because most of my stuff showed up in the mail today. I have my casting pot, ladle, one of the three molds I ordered, and a sizing die (not for the mold that showed up, but I can cast in the one I've got, and size them later). The rest of the stuff is on backorder, and should be here the end of the month. This weekend I'll pick up my first batch of WW, and start the smelting and casting process. Needless to say, I'm happy now.

D