Maven's day at the range: Lee 30-150-TL-PB

[Maven]

All, I had a chance to perform a rather limited test of the Lee group buy CB, but am hesitant to draw too many conclusions because of the test's brevity and some other factors, e.g., not having my cleaning rod on hand. I used LC match .30-06 brass with WLR primers to ignite 14gr. of Blue Dot. The 30-150-TL-PB's were unweighed and unsorted by cavity, but half were unsized and hand lubed with Lee Liq. Alox, the other half were sized to .311" and lubed with LBT Blue, which happened to be in my sizer. OAL was 3.125". The rifle is a Win. Mod. 70, glass bedded etc. The range was 50 yds.

Velocity: 14gr. B. Dot gave nearly the same results with sized & unsized CB's if I eliminated one high reading (1,647fps). The results below include that high reading.

Unsized (n = 13) Mean = 1,610; SD = 19, ES = 67fps
Sized (n = 15) Mean = 1,609; SD = 15, ES = 52fps

Accuracy: The sized CB's seemed to perform better in that I could get 5 to cluster in <1", but there was a great deal of scatter on the target (flyers?). The unsized ones did even worse, with no clustering of hits and greater dispersion on the target. As I didn't have my cleaning rod with me, I couldn't dry patch the bore for signs of leading. When I got home and cleaned the rifle, I discovered its presence. Ergo, the poor performance of the unsized CB's and frankly, the others as well, could have been due to leading, too much velocity, sizing "issues"* and even OAL.

Retesting is merited and will use a lesser charge of B. Dot or maybe 14gr. of WC 820, a longer OAL (~3.14" - 3.15") and possibly sorted CB's. Btw, none of my powder measures metered B. Dot very well. The Ly. #55 did better, but "better" is a relative term. My Ly. pistol powder measure's rotors were OK, but one through something like 13.5gr. while the other maybe 15.5. In retrospect, I should have used the lesser charge and the pistol powder measure.


*Sizing issues: I initially used the Lee push-thru die (.311"), but didn't like the job it did on this particular CB (all others have been fine). The Lyman #450 did a better job. Next time I'll use it exclusively.

[Buckshot]

.............Paul, nice test. That's a pretty good velocity for a PB slug in a 30 cal, as you know and mentioned. I have only one PB slug suitable for 30 cal and that's the Lyman 130gr RN 311410. It will shoot well enough in a somewhat worn 1891 Argentine barrel (the boolit drops @ .314") to the mid 1200's. After that the groups grow.

In a good 1891 (.312") sharp bored barrel they will do as well as in any good 30 cal bbl to about 1400 fps. Of course this design is different then your GB design but I suspect if you start at 1,000 fps and go up, the groups will open much beyond 1400 fps.

..............Buckshot

[Maineboy]

It's interesting how the Lee 405 FN, a pb boolit, will group well all the way to 1900 fps in my 45-70 Marlin, but the pb 150 grain 311241 does terribly when pushed much over 1300 fps in any of my 30 caliber rifles. Do larger caliber rifles generally shoot plain base boolits better than smaller caliber rifles?

[toecutter]

Buckshot,

Would you recommend that mold for .303 brit? I've been thinking about buying a mold for it, but havn't quite decided yet. Then sizing at what? .312? Have any other recommendations for loading .30 carbine?

[Maven]

All, I monkeyed with my Ly. pistol powder measure last night trying to find a rotor that would throw a charge of B. Dot <14gr. Two rotors, #10L and #11 look promising, throwing 12.7 and 13.7gr. respectively. Incidentally, that powder measure shows the smallest ES of all I tested: 0.6gr. (1 throw : 25 ) v. 0.8gr. - 0.9gr. for the others (Lee "Perfect," Ohaus Duo-Meas., Ly. #55) . Furthermore, B.Dot seems to be more difficult to throw than say G. Dot or Clays.

[leftiye]

Maven, I may have misunderstood you that .6 grain was the best you've gotten a powder measure to do. Does that include measures that you have to adjust? I routinely get less than .1 gr. variance with my RCBS measure and small cylinder. I cut the tube off about 2 in above the base and put a small metal funnel in the top of it. This acts as a baffle and keeps the same amount of powder above the hopper all of the time. Also, I tap the handle twice against the stop at the top and bottom of every stroke. FWIW. If I misunderstood you, then please disregard. But it does work pretty good. In the old days everyone used to weigh every tenth charge. As loading continues, the chgs generally will get about a tenth heavier, but not always. I readjust the measure when this happens.

[Maven]

leftiy, I should have said an extreme spread of .6gr. only because 1 drop out of 25 was heavier than the others. With the fixed rotors of the Ly. pistol measure, my usual practice is to drop 4 sets of 10 charges each and average the 4. This time I did that in additon to 25 individual drops for rotor #10L and 25 for #11. Unfortunately I haven't calculated the means or SD's yet. As for my other measures, I don't really how they perform with the powders I use since I weigh each charge and don't record the weight of each. Once in a great while, however, I run across a powder that meters so well, that I almost don't have to weigh individual charges. WC 860 is one such example.

[Buckshot]

Buckshot,

Would you recommend that mold for .303 brit? I've been thinking about buying a mold for it, but havn't quite decided yet. Then sizing at what? .312? Have any other recommendations for loading .30 carbine?

............Sure, it'd work in a .312" groove SMLE. Can't go real fast :-), but it has a 22RF beat all to heck! That slug will work in a 30 carbine too. However I like the Lee C309-113F mo-betta.

..............Buckshot

[Leftoverdj]

btw, there are at least two versions of the 311410. Lyman changed it from a flat base to a bevel base somewhere along the line.