round nose or big meplat

[canuck4570]

I habe been reading all your hunting story and its great... I would like to know what is best .... round nose or meplat... I have a saeco 500 gr RN and I like it for my ruger no 1 4570 because the bore ridind nose is .446 and even if this nose is long it goes in easy in the chamber not like my other saeco 550 gr whit a little meplat...because the bore riding section is .552 ... I am shure you guys know thes mould frome saeco.....back to my RN would it be better hollow point or has is....for me to do hollow point it is easy because i have a jig on my drill press and supperb hollow point can be made...by the way I shot this bullet at 1220 fps ... chrono .. in sand and the recovered bullet expand to average of .970 and almost no lost in weight... it will be use for deer and moose.. penetration about 15 to 20 inches... this frome 100 yards..

[JDL]

You didn't mention your alloy, but if it is W/W or softer there should be some upset in game. The flat point will start expansion quicker than the round nose which should be fine on deer, but for moose either should work well.-JDL

[Bass Ackward]

Canuck,

Don't make this more difficult than it has to be. You obviously understand jacketed bullet technology and the logic that a hunter would go through to make a bullet selection.

If the game is light, you need to start energy transfer as fast as possible. The wide flat does this. So does a hollow point. The disadvantage to the wide flat is that it loses velocity faster than many people realize. If you had no ability to hollow point, then I would recommend a wide flat on smaller game. But as soon as it expands, it looks exactly like the round nose will anyway. Personally, I would hollow point for deer if you have that capability. Just keep the hollow point shallow. 5MM is plenty. Then fill the hole with grease or candle wax. This will begin expansion upon contact with a hydrolic effect. Some may tell you that it isn't necessary, but what is it going to hurt?

Your sand isn't going to tell you much for game. The only thing it shows is that your bullet will hang together. It will give you a false impression of expansion. You need material closer to the game you are going after to really see what to expect. And in the end, nothing is perfect.

Get ready ..... relax .... and enjoy your hunt.

[The Nyack Kid]

Hello canunk
flatpoint bullet are much more "forgiving" of differances with bullet alloy and impact speed , when it comes to killing game . a roundnose bullet needs to be softer the slower the speed and/or smaller the animal for it to work best. the big roundnose bullets of yesteryear used 30 to 1 and 20 to one lead and tin on the bison and other big game animals . a hard cast roundnose bullet will kill an animal , but unless it hits bone, the wound channel will not be very big and the animal may run far before dieing . a hard cast flatnose will do more damage to tissue , the wider the meplat the more damage . BTW the hardcast wide flatnose bullets have become famous for their strait, deep penetration . as far as drilling a hollow point into your bullet , it will help it kill faster by quite a bit . the bullet will expand faster and do more tissue damage ( make sure the the hole is drilled as close to center as possible ) the bullet is heavy enough that you will still get deep penetration , but it may not exit a moose ( ever try to push a golf ball though moose hide , it aint easy )
good hunting and keep us posted

[Abert Rim]

Go with the flat nose for hunting in virtually all situations. There was an article a while back in one of the SGP/BPC News issues by the fellow that manages one of Ted Turner's bison ranches, and he has seen a whole lot of cast designs used on these critters. He has very little good to say about a round nose.
Also, over at the Accurate Reloading forums, there's a very interested thread on this very subject under Big Bores.

[Petander]

Hello,

it´s been a while but I´m back. My Internet life slows down in summer. :wink:

Here´s my recent favorite 45-70 boolit mould, it took some time to get it but it was definitely worth the wait:

http://www.markkuland.com/applegate/mouldclosed.jpg

http://www.markkuland.com/applegate/mouldopen.jpg

A 460 grainer that cycles in a standard Marlin, made by Robert Applegate. The meplat is about .40 " . I´ve been just breaking it in, test boolits ( BHN 10 ) being pushed at 1800 fps are smashing clay pigeons at 75 meters all the time. I haven´t done any serious grouping yet, that´s enough for our moose anyway.

It´s a slightly compressed load with Vihtavuori N130. QL shows quite heavy pressures but compared to some hot jacketed loads it´s quite a lot easier to shoot -and still much easier on brass and primers. QL (Quick Load) doesn´t understand cast boolits that good after all.

And : it does not penetrate wood as much as my previous 400 RF boolit. I like that, it makes more damage and to be honest, this one still penetrates like crazy. My RF is a tad faster and harder.

Opinions about the alloy / velocity combo for moose? I think this is gonna work, not too hard, right?

[Nrut]

Petander...your new mold looks to purty to use......beautiful!!!....mic

Michel check your PM's

[Bass Ackward]

It´s a slightly compressed load with Vihtavuori N130. QL shows quite heavy pressures but compared to some hot jacketed loads it´s quite a lot easier to shoot -and still much easier on brass and primers. QL (Quick Load) doesn´t understand cast boolits that good after all.


Petander,

Open Quick Load and look at the screen where you put in your powder and load information. Right above the powder quantity you have what is called Shot Start Pressure. It probably reads 1160 for lead. If you put your cursor in that box, you can change this value to match your load for all of your variables "in that gun". Watch when you change it what happens to pressure and velocity.

Once you adjust that level to match the muzzle velocity you record on a chronograph, you will then track perfectly. This S.T.P. value has to be adjusted slightly everytime you change diameter, hardness, seating depth if you were in contact with the lands, (otherwise the program takes care of itself), lube, primer, or change guns. It accounts for everything that "you" the reloader does. Same for jacketed.

Then just save the load data, and when you name it, you can call it up every time.

Nice mold. Is this your first from brass?

[Petander]

Nice mold. Is this your first from brass?


Yes, how did you know? [smilie=f:



Thanks a lot for QL info, I´ll take a better look at those parameters now.

[Piglead]

ever try to push a golf ball though moose hide , it aint easy ) :shock: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: !

Back in the dark ages of my shooting career I hunted Water buff as a Pet food shooter I started out (as many of us did) with a .303 using ex mil 215 rn ammo I then started using 215 Rn cast (always solids) I the moved up to the 45-70 & 405gn flat nosesolids which over my pro shooting career have taken 1000's of Buff in the 70's & later up to the presant time 1000's of Camels The Mould I use these days is a CBE & is known as the "don't argue with this bullet" (as most game do'nt) I mix a blend of 9lbs of WW or Bullets recovered from the local Range + 1lbs of 50/50 soldier! Or on "special Jobs" (ie where there is a chance of my life being cut short by a enraged Camel ! Do'nt laugh I had one nearly get me a couple of months ago !)I use straight Linotype (as I have found a supply )

Dave

[Petander]

I tried to find a subsonic load for quiet ,easy practise.


These boolits are from my second batch or so, not perfect, neither sorted at all. BHN 10. I used them up to develop a sub load.

http://www.markkuland.com/marlinsub/subroundsandboolits.jpg



17 grains VV 3N38, CCI 250 and 3.5 mm flashholes, 50 meters only - after the three shot group I took a couple of clicks to the right , fired two more and went home feeling quite happy. 1050 fps, quiet and easy. Lower velocities didn´t give any mentionable accuracy with 3N38.


http://www.markkuland.com/marlinsub/50mgroups.jpg


On the left there´s a Lapua Scoremax 22 LR fired from one yard. Middle, the 460 grainer with ten grains of VV 3N38, giving 650 fps, fired from 50 m. The last one on the right is the 17 grain load at 1050 fps, from 50 as well.

http://www.markkuland.com/marlinsub/splitlog.jpg



Exit from another angle:

http://www.markkuland.com/marlinsub/460subouthole.jpg



I was thinking about this 650 fps velocity that I got with ten grains... it equals the distance of 800-900 yards or so - using an originally subsonic 1050 fps load. My BC estimation may not be exact but it´s somewhere close anyway.

So , people talking about "fast loss of velocity and power with 45-70 " haven´t obviously seen this. :wink:


http://www.markkuland.com/marlinsub/inwood650fps.jpg

A "Full House" load will drop to subsonic at 600-700 yds and work like the above boolit at nearly a mile... hmm... better not shoot birds with this one. :???:

[C1PNR]

A "Full House" load will drop to subsonic at 600-700 yds and work like the above boolit at nearly a mile... hmm... better not shoot birds with this one. :???:

Or anything standing on the skyline, either.8-)

[Petander]

Yeah, or a squirrel in a tree 30 feet high at 100 yds... [smilie=1:

[rvpilot76]

Those are absolutely the most beautiful moulds I have ever laid eyes on. Do you mind if I ask how much one could expect to pay for a set of those?

Kevin

Hello,

it´s been a while but I´m back. My Internet life slows down in summer. :wink:

Here´s my recent favorite 45-70 boolit mould, it took some time to get it but it was definitely worth the wait:

http://www.markkuland.com/applegate/mouldclosed.jpg

http://www.markkuland.com/applegate/mouldopen.jpg

A 460 grainer that cycles in a standard Marlin, made by Robert Applegate. The meplat is about .40 " . I´ve been just breaking it in, test boolits ( BHN 10 ) being pushed at 1800 fps are smashing clay pigeons at 75 meters all the time. I haven´t done any serious grouping yet, that´s enough for our moose anyway.

It´s a slightly compressed load with Vihtavuori N130. QL shows quite heavy pressures but compared to some hot jacketed loads it´s quite a lot easier to shoot -and still much easier on brass and primers. QL (Quick Load) doesn´t understand cast boolits that good after all.

And : it does not penetrate wood as much as my previous 400 RF boolit. I like that, it makes more damage and to be honest, this one still penetrates like crazy. My RF is a tad faster and harder.

Opinions about the alloy / velocity combo for moose? I think this is gonna work, not too hard, right?

[Petander]

The mold was about $110 I think.

Sometimes money doesn´t matter much though:

http://www.petander.com/Bullandwinkle.jpg


I got him up close and personal using a jacketed Hornady 350 FN. But he got up again, I needed a cast 400 FN to get him down again and stay there- at that point there was about three yards between us and my dawg was going berserk. It was about three years ago, now my hair is gray.

This new Applegate boolit will do it all. I hope I´ll get a chance.

[LAH]

Bet that was some fine eating?