Bottom pour vs. ladle pour?

[Triggernosis]

I'm sure this question has been asked a hundred times, but can someone explain to a complete newbie the difference between bottom pour and ladle pour?

[drklynoon]

Well besides the obvious, bottom pour is quicker and is easier to keep large aluminum molds up to temp because it is quicker. I do both and find dipping gives me less culls in my 2 cavity molds. However, dipping usually leaves me with less boolits per sitting because of the ease of bottom pour. Another feature of dipping is you can accomplish this with a cast iron pot, a camp stove, and a ladle. Bottom pour takes a specific pot.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Hi and welcome to the forum. Good casting can be accomplished either way. Speed and convenience are important to some casters and to others ..not. High end equipment in either case is not a guarantee of anything...to quote an old saying, "its not what you got--its how you use it".Post #2 sums it up generally speaking. There are many advocates for each method and lots of opinions and discussion around. I do both. Regardless of which method you use, the object is to produce good bullets/quality. (Way) Back in the day, there were no bottom pour pots around and riflemen/marksmen poured some pretty good bullets that set a lot of records that lasted a long time. So whatever equipment you want/need/choose to use, use it well and concentrate on making a good product. LLS

[dromia]

Bottom pour uses a bottom pour pot which pours the lead into the mould through a spout in the bottom of the pot using a valve stem system.

Dipping or ladle pouring uses a lead ladle which you dip into the lead from the top of the pot and pour the alloy into the mould from the ladle.

Pros and cons have been covered by the previous posters. I find dipping better for larger boolits or if need very high quality consistent boolit for long range high velocity shooting. Generally though for rifle anything over 8mm gets dipped anything under gets poured.

[Triggernosis]

Thanks, gentlemen.
It's the physical process of bottom pour that I can't visualize. I'll see if there's anything on YouTube that shows it.

[boltons75]

Thanks, gentlemen.
It's the physical process of bottom pour that I can't visualize. I'll see if there's anything on YouTube that shows it.

Just look for the Lee production pot, should have lots of videos

[Triggernosis]

OK, I understand now. It looks to me like bottom pour would be so much less trouble, particularly for the smaller bullets that I'll be casting (.380 and .38).

[shredder]

One theory on accuracy goes along the lines of: Bottom pour creates variation in alloy flow when filling the mould due to the varying amount(weight) of lead in the pot and the resultant pressure variation on the alloy leaving the bottom pour spout. The ladle creates a uniform flow into the mould, and allows better consistemcy. You may not wish to dice the onion that fine though. This advice comes from a competitive shooter who pours boolits in the 500 grain range to shoot at over 550 yards. It does make some sense though.

Myself I am a bottom pour man and I like it.

[drklynoon]

Triggernosis, for .380's and .38's I would recommend a LEE production pot. This is a bottom pour design. I would also recommend a 6 cavity mold. Much of this hobby depends on personal needs or wants. unless you are shooting 50 yards with your .38 I doubt you would notice any difference in quality of your boolits from ladeling. It appears as you are new to the hobby so welcome. I would also suggest buying the Lyman cast bullet handbook and reading it. Most answers can be found in this one resource. The book also allows for you to know what questions to ask when things don't go as planned.

[Triggernosis]

Thanks for the welcome, gentlemen. Yep, I'm a newbie alright...still trying to decide if I'm going to do this or not, as I've already got enough hobbies as it is. I already reload, but I'm tired of not being able to find bullets when I need them, or paying a crapload of shipping just to get them here....and I've got a limitless supply of wheel weights, so maybe I'll give it a go.

And I'll save my long-range shooting for my rifle.....

[khmer6]

i tried casting for the first time yesterday with a lee bottom pour. i hated it, i couldn't get the damn wrinkles out, the flow rate was too slow. did some reading and poked around the bottom hole..... and bam! she started flowing gold... well lead actually... made casting bottom pour for 230gr a whole lot easier. i was about to give up and go with a ladle pour

[SwanShot]

I'm a noob as well. My first efforts with the Lee bottom cast was that as soon as the level got down to 1/3 of the pot it began blocking up,
the flow reduced to a drip. Cleaned out by poking a peice of wire throug the spout, but it soon clagged up again. As one might imagine I found this frustrating because every time I settled into a routine it would block.
I can't be the only one to experience this. Any thoughts?

[shredder]

I'm a noob as well. My first efforts with the Lee bottom cast was that as soon as the level got down to 1/3 of the pot it began blocking up,
the flow reduced to a drip. Cleaned out by poking a peice of wire throug the spout, but it soon clagged up again. As one might imagine I found this frustrating because every time I settled into a routine it would block.
I can't be the only one to experience this. Any thoughts?

One thought for sure is not to let the alloy get that low. Anything below 1/2 pot can give you pretty wild temperature differences and may not have enough pressure (weight of alloy) to get a good flow.

[SwanShot]

Ok, thanks, I'll try keeping if full. Also does one have to empty the pot when finished, cast into ingots or whatever?

The other question is how the B'jasus do I cut up a 25 pound lead ingot? It's about 2x4 inch section and 18 inches long, and I have to somehow cut it up to peices small enough to get in the little pot.

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

The other question is how the B'jasus do I cut up a 25 pound lead ingot? It's about 2x4 inch section and 18 inches long, and I have to somehow cut it up to peices small enough to get in the little pot.

Splittin' maul, log splitter, axe, chainsaw, sawzall,
all's fair in this game, just keep the chips

[dromia]

Ok, thanks, I'll try keeping if full. Also does one have to empty the pot when finished, cast into ingots or whatever?



I always leave a couple of inches of alloy in the pot as it speeds up the melting of alloy the next time I use it.

[shredder]

I tend to fill the pot right up at the end of a casting session so it is ready to roll when I feel the urge to cast again.

[1bluehorse]

Possibly if your spout is clogging that much and that quickly either your alloy isn't hot enough or clean enough...both easy fixes...:-D

[snuffy]

i tried casting for the first time yesterday with a lee bottom pour. i hated it, i couldn't get the damn wrinkles out, the flow rate was too slow. did some reading and poked around the bottom hole..... and bam! she started flowing gold... well lead actually... made casting bottom pour for 230gr a whole lot easier. i was about to give up and go with a ladle pour

And swanshot;

I see some common rookie mistakes here.
1. You are melting raw lead, from an unknown source and an unknown alloy, Directly into your casting pot.
2. You said nothing about how you fluxed and for how long. Fluxing cleans the alloy, allowing you to skim the dirt off the top of the melt. Some dirt can become trapped under the molten lead, then it works it's way to the spout to clog it. It can also interfere with the valve rod, keeping it from seating, causing it to drip.
3. Get a casting thermometer. You need to be casting between 650 to 750 degrees depending on the alloy. The numbers on the lee knob is simply for reference.

Get a big cast iron or steel pot,(no aluminum), you can put over a heat source of at least 20,000 btu. It could be nat. gas, propane, or even a big wood fire. Use that to "smelt" in, it could be big enough to put that whole chunk it at one time. Then cast a bunch of small ingots that will fit in your casting pot. Flux when you get it good and hot, then you'll be feeding the casting pot clean lead.


Ok, thanks, I'll try keeping if full. Also does one have to empty the pot when finished, cast into ingots or whatever?

No need to completely empty the pot, in fact, it's best to leave it about half full. It will melt faster is there's lead tight against the walls for heat conduction.

Another thing that causes the spout to clog, is it's too cold. If the pot temp is too cold, the spout will cool too much, freezing the lead at the tip. Hit it with your propane torch for a few seconds, you'll see instantly if it was froze.

[SwanShot]

Thanks Gentlement, Snuffy, now that's just the information I'm looking for.:-D
I'm told I'll be wanting to use the purest lead I can find for casting Minies that will be shot by relatively low loads.
I'll be looking to shoot targets, not hunt.
I was told by a guy who should know that if I can't mark it (Lead) with my thumb nail, it's too hard.