How Much is Too Much?...conitued from Wadcutter seat Deapth?

[LtFrankDrebbin]

Posted a queerie on wadcutter seat deapth earlier, my Colt Diamondback not grouping with 150 grain lyman wadcutters unless seated to the lube groove not crimp groove.

Thanks heaps to those that gave input and advise.

Now the plot thickens. I have just sized and flared six cases. Miced six boolits @ .3585 seated them to the crimp groove then pulled them. A couple miced @ .358 max and one miced @ .357 min. So there is a swaging effect hapening.

Question is can .001" be enough for a shotgun pattern group?

I've gotta add that whilst at the range yesterday I got my greasey paws onto some Federal Gold Medal 148grain wadcutter factory loads (seated flush with the case).
After fouler shots these were producing honest 1inch groups @ 25 meters off the bench.
So I now have confirmed the gun can deliver and the shooter can't be half bad.

Just need to refine the hand loading to equal or preferably outperform this.

[runfiverun]

couple the ones being squeezed with a different internal case capacity.

if you wanna do a little experiment shoot 50 rounds pull the cases that fly off group
and re-shoot with the good ones.
double check for swaged boolits in the cases against the flyers.
and the good group against the second run for confirmation.

[shooting on a shoestring]

One thing to keep in mind is the Federal wadcutters were in genuine wadcutter brass. Not sure about your loads. Wadcutter brass has straight walls down past where the wadcutter sits before the walls begin thickening up. Regular brass can have the case walls begin thickening some where ahead of where the wadcutter base seats, meaning the base of the wadcutter gets squeezed harder than the front of it does. With some boolits getting the extra tension and others not, that can open your groups quickly.

One other place groups can open is with powder position sensitivity. Even with the small case capacity left after seating a wadcutter, powders like HS6 can have enough position sensitivity to change 50-75 fps. My chronographing has shown me that Bullseye and 700X are the least position sensitive followed closely by Titegroup.

[williamwaco]

Posted a queerie on wadcutter seat deapth earlier, my Colt Diamondback not grouping with 150 grain lyman wadcutters unless seated to the lube groove not crimp groove.

Thanks heaps to those that gave input and advise.

Now the plot thickens. I have just sized and flared six cases. Miced six boolits @ .3585 seated them to the crimp groove then pulled them. A couple miced @ .358 max and one miced @ .357 min. So there is a swaging effect hapening.

Question is can .001" be enough for a shotgun pattern group?

I've gotta add that whilst at the range yesterday I got my greasey paws onto some Federal Gold Medal 148grain wadcutter factory loads (seated flush with the case).
After fouler shots these were producing honest 1inch groups @ 25 meters off the bench.
So I now have confirmed the gun can deliver and the shooter can't be half bad.

Just need to refine the hand loading to equal or preferably outperform this.

That .001 swagging is at the base of the bullet. The base is the most critical part of the bullet for accuracy.
If gas leaks around that undersized base band, there is no way of knowing what the result might be.

Try the experiment suggested by runfiverun. We might all learn something.

[Mk42gunner]

I hope you were able to save the wadcutter brass.

If so, I would try the same loads in both the wadcutter brass and your normal brass. I will bet there is a major difference in groups between the two.

Robert

[LtFrankDrebbin]

Thanks to you all for your advise, I've broken it all down now and made a step by step plan.
The factory wadcutter ammo were a doner from a freind so I have to return the brass.
I did however reload ten of the Federal wadcutter brass and try them this arvo. ( sshhh don't tell him ten are twice fired! :-D)
Outcome was another shotgun pattern.

Plan 'B' was going to be shooting 50 and seperating the fliers, but a nother thought passed the mind.
Sizing die? I am using Hornady dies, went to another freind who has a Lee sizing die and made a comparison.
Off my dial verneirs case diameter approximatly boolit base area Hornady sized case= 9.49mm (.373")
Lee sized case diameter same area= 9.54mm (.375")
Looking to me that my poor boolits are getting a double over squeeze.

New plan 'B mk1', I will load a batch with the Lee sizing die to test.
Will also bit by bit get some factory wadcutters (one brand only) to get the brass breeding.

Mission I will get these things to shoot seated properly! :) :castmine:

[runfiverun]

might be able to polish out the hornady dies to make a fit.
good skill to have anyway if you are gonna shoot lead.

[deltaenterprizes]

The factory wadcutters were swagged hollow based wadcutters , not cast.

[engineer401]

might be able to polish out the hornady dies to make a fit.
good skill to have anyway if you are gonna shoot lead.

How thick is the titanium nitride coating of a Hornady die? Polishing it may remove too much of the coating. When I wanted a die to size brass to 0.375" I called CH who looked through a box of old reject dies and found one to fit my needs. The die was at regular price but I received what I wanted. It was considerably cheaper than buying a custom die. I later noticed several members on this forum polished out carbide die rings with diamond paste to achieve their desired results. I would consider buying a Lee die and polish to match the friend's die if sizing with his works for you.