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View Full Version : 338-06, 35 whelen, or 9.3X62?



fireguy715
01-18-2013, 02:23 AM
I'm sure this has been beat to death over the last 60 years. I'm looking at a mauser 98 sporter. If I get it, I'd like to make a thumper with 20-22" barrel. I've kind of ruled out the 9.3 because I have so much 06 brass and there are more jacketed bullet choices in the other two. I've read 338-06 can push the same weight jacketed bullets faster than the whelen although I'm not sure why. I'm getting into casting and am guessing that any of these would work for cast bullets. Looking for thoughts and experience on this one. Thanks.

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waksupi
01-18-2013, 03:16 AM
For the Holy Grail of cast boolits in that bore size, get a .358 Winchester. The other calibers are overbore.
Do a search for that caliber here, lots of good information.
Forget the jacketed bullet stuff you know. Cast boolits are an entirely different animal.

Welcome aboard.

HARRYMPOPE
01-18-2013, 03:31 AM
Oops double post

HARRYMPOPE
01-18-2013, 03:34 AM
Overbore 35 Whelen?

I own/have owned all three and they are all good.The Whelen is easier to get cast bullet designs for.The 358 is pretty good and all the powder you need for a 35 but no more accurate than the others.

azrednek
01-18-2013, 03:46 AM
I'm assuming that if you're considering a 20 or 22 inch barrel you want a light weight thumper. When I shopped for a Shaw barrel kit for a Savage. The 35 Whelen kit, the barrel was the same weight and contour as their magnum barrels. The 338/06 kit, the barrel was lighter weight and slightly smaller in circumference.

Naturally if you want to spend the bux I'm sure a lightweight 35 Whelen can be made. Shaw according to their website a light weight barrel in 35 Whelen could be purchased. The pre-packaged kits Shaw were marketing through Sportsman's Guide that came with headspace gauges and Savage barrel wrench. The light weight 35 Whelen was not offered. At the time the complete barrel kits were lower in cost from Sportsman's Guide than buying just the lightweight 35 Whelen barrel directly from Shaw.

Another consideration if your Mauser is 8MM. Do you want to re-barrel to move up from 32 to 33 caliber. Possibly chopping and crowning the military barrel to 20 inches might provide enough thump to do the job. I know the feeling of indecision you are going through and I changed my mind several times between the two calibers. At the time I had a Savage and Mauser both begging for new barrels. I eventually decided to deal with the extra weight and went with 35 Whelen for the Mauser.

Fluxed
01-18-2013, 08:04 AM
I'm one more vote for .35 caliber. Plenty of bullet choices and if you want, you can shoot .357 pistol bullets for short range low speed plinking. I'd build a Whelen, but not too light. With full power loads its gonna kick!

MattOrgan
01-18-2013, 09:06 AM
I have to go with the .338/06 or as mine is stamped .338 OKH (still miss Elmer). I've had .35 Whelans, including a .35 Brown-Whelan. The 35s may be better pure cast bullet rifles because all of the molds available, but I tend to settle on one bullet/ load in cast for practice in high velocity rifles and use jacketed for hunting ( horrors!) With the huge number of choices in .338 bullets I think it's more practical all around. Lee's .338 mold has been great for the last 20 years, but I'm not looking forward to buying my next box of .338 gas checks, so I'll be looking for a plain based mold in .338.

That being said I have been itching to build a .358 Winchester, as previously mentioned it makes a great lightweight short action rifle. Too many rifles, so little time.

Blammer
01-18-2013, 09:19 AM
I would suggest the 35 caliber. Why, more cast boolits avialiable than in both of the other two combined.

I have a 35 whelen and really like it. I would choose this one.

358winchester is another good suggestion but not on your list.

badgeredd
01-18-2013, 09:39 AM
One thing to bear in mind is if you insist on a short barrel, you'd be better off with a 308 sized case, i.e. 358 Win. If you truly want a "thumper" then you'd be better off with a 35 Whelen with a 24" barrel. Short barrels are handy BUT with cast boolits, you'll find that a slightly longer barrel is better for cast because you can keep the muzzle pressure down due to the added burn length of a 24" barrel. Assuming you are thinking about a heavier boolit in cast, I'd personally suggest a 35 Whelen with a 24" barrel in 1-12 twist. One still can build a handy walk about rifle with a 24" barrel if you really want a light rifle. Only you can decide what trade off you are willing to deal with. Personally , I'd prefer a slightly heavier rifle with enough barrel to be able to get the full potential out of the Whelen, but that is me. 35s definitely have more versatility in boolit selection.

Edd

Hardcast416taylor
01-18-2013, 12:17 PM
.338/06. I wasn`t aware there were any other calibers available other than .338?????Robert

badgeredd
01-18-2013, 12:46 PM
.338/06. I wasn`t aware there were any other calibers available other than .338?????Robert

416 What?

45 2.1
01-18-2013, 02:31 PM
I'm looking at a mauser 98 sporter.

What caliber is it in now? Mauser magazines feed their original case shape well. Change the body taper and things can get more expensive to fix.


Another consideration if your Mauser is 8MM.

If the original caliber is 8mm.... you have a choice of the 9.3 x 57mm..... which is basically the 8mm case (as is) necked up with no feeding problems. A 286 gr. bullet or boolit at 2100 fps (a commonly excepted easily obtained accurate maximum velocity number) is nothing to sneeze at.

Mk42gunner
01-18-2013, 03:21 PM
I've read 338-06 can push the same weight jacketed bullets faster than the whelen although I'm not sure why.

Higher pressure in the .338.

I went with the .35 Whelen because I had wanted one since reading an article by Jack O'Connor when I was 14. If I had been really thinking aboout using cast in the rifle when I built it; I would have gone with the .358 Winchester. (I still want one).

Robert

sundog
01-18-2013, 03:52 PM
358009 at about 2K fps out of a 35 Whelen is truly and awesome thing to behold.

runfiverun
01-18-2013, 04:37 PM
What caliber is it in now? Mauser magazines feed their original case shape well. Change the body taper and things can get more expensive to fix.



If the original caliber is 8mm.... you have a choice of the 9.3 x 57mm..... which is basically the 8mm case (as is) necked up with no feeding problems. A 286 gr. bullet or boolit at 2100 fps (a commonly excepted easily obtained accurate maximum velocity number) is nothing to sneeze at.

saving myself some typing.

fredj338
01-18-2013, 04:57 PM
I have hunted quite a bit w/ the 338-06, I love mine. From small deer to moose & elk, it's a very good killer of game to 300yds+. If I had to hunt bigger game in close, the 9.3 has a slight edge in heavy/larger bullets. Nothing wrong w/ the 35W either, but good bullet selection for the 338 is extensive. My hunting load is the 210grNP @ 2750fps. I have obly ever recovered one & that was a frontal shot on a large Kudu bull, everything else total pass thru w/ large exit holes.
Brass is easily made by running 06 cases into the sizing die, load & shoot. If you are looking for a lead bullet shooter, then the 35W makes sense, then the 9.3 then the 338.

fireguy715
01-18-2013, 05:17 PM
I'm not thinking too much about the .358 win because the rifle is a large ring mauser and 06 base cartridges are supposed to cycle and feed just fine. I'm also wanting to build an old school sporter in a older cartridge like a lot of post war rifles. I will be shooting some jacketed bullets,(can I say that here) so that is a factor as well. It sounds like the 338 has an edge with jacketed and the whelen with cast....so far.

Uncle Grinch
01-18-2013, 05:48 PM
If you were going to shoot just jacketed, I would go with the 9.3x62. You can make brass from the 30-06 easily. However, if cast boolits are your choice, then by all means go with the 35 Whelen as it's the most practical.... which is the very reason I went with the 9.3x62... I'm not very practical and want something that's always different (read that as more $$)

Yep... 35 Whelen is what you want.

The Kid
01-18-2013, 05:50 PM
I do a good 90% of my hunting with a 35 Whelen, albeit with jacketed bullets. I have shot both kinds of bears, caribou, and moose with it so far and wouldn't have anything else for my all around medium rifle. Mine also happens to wear a 20" barrel and doesn't give up much to longer tubes in the speed dept, I'm running about 50-75fps behind book speeds. It is truly an incredible cartridge that kills all out of proportion to what you might expect.

I form all my brass from 270 cases as 06 will come out a little short and the mouths need to be squared with the trimmer after necking up. I form them in one pass using Imperial die wax and haven't lost more than a half dozen cases over the years. I haven't shot cast in it yet but plan to soon.

HangFireW8
01-18-2013, 05:58 PM
As az touched on, for a Mauser action I would personally go for 8mm-06. Of course I have a big investment in 8mm molds.

Nothing wrong with 35 Whelen, it would be my first choice... for an 03 action!

HF

smkummer
01-18-2013, 06:53 PM
Most likely the original caliber would be fine on this side of the pond for what ever you are shooting. If it still is a 8mm, .323 boolits are easier to find than 9.3. Hard to believe someone on this side of the pond would want to use 9.3 unless they came across a fine drilling. 35 caliber sure does appear to have multitutes of benifits including using pistol bullets for plinking for lots of fun, savings and that someday the rifle will change hands. just my .02 from someone who loads 9.3 cartridges.

Whiterabbit
01-18-2013, 07:10 PM
I think it would depend on what distance I want to shoot. if I wanted to shoot cast only, or shoot 300 yards and less, or both, then I would pick the 35 cal. Great bullet selection there, great mold selection. mild to wild. Puts the hurt on. If I wanted to shoot over 500 yards, I'd pick the 338. There are some great acketed 338 bullets out there if you have the cash. It;s backed by 338 edge, 338 lapua, and 338-378 for long range shooters. So you'll have your selection of very high BC bullets to play with. I dont know anything about cast 338's. in between 300 and 500 yards would be a grey area for my thinking.

All of this is based only on paper knowledge. I shoot a 357 max and a 338 lapua, not an X-06.

taco650
01-18-2013, 07:30 PM
New to forum but found this article very informative. I've been pondering a similar change for my Ruger 30-06. Right now, leaning toward 35 Whelen because of cast boolit availability and plinker loads.

Also, like another said, the 8x57 itself is nothing to sneeze at.

joepb
01-18-2013, 08:09 PM
I shoot both the 358 and the 35 whelen improved. I don't think you can wrong with the 35s.

The Kid
01-18-2013, 08:48 PM
Fortunately, the old saw that the 35s have less bullet choices can be put to rest these days. Except for the high BC offerings you are giving up nothing, selection wise to the 338. There are good bullets available in a smattering of weights from Hornady, Speer, Nosler, Sierra, Barnes, and Swift. If one wants to get creative, NorthFork, Woodleigh, and Hawk also make great 358 bullets.

I am an advanced novice caster, know enough to get in trouble, but I see lots more molds available for the 35 as well. This of course is looking at older used molds for sale and off the shelf Lyman, Lee, and Rcbs designs.

MT Gianni
01-19-2013, 12:33 AM
I'm not thinking too much about the .358 win because the rifle is a large ring mauser and 06 base cartridges are supposed to cycle and feed just fine. I'm also wanting to build an old school sporter in a older cartridge like a lot of post war rifles. I will be shooting some jacketed bullets,(can I say that here) so that is a factor as well. It sounds like the 338 has an edge with jacketed and the whelen with cast....so far.

I have 98 Mauser actions feeding a 243, 280, 30-06 and 35 Whelen without any modifcations.

Bigslug
01-19-2013, 01:12 AM
.35 Whelan Ackley Improved. As long as you're shaping cases anyway, shape 'em SEXY!

Cramming the '06 case into a Mauser 98 can be done, but it is a squeeze. Going bigger bore will get you more weight for the same amount of length. Since with cast, you're velocity potential isn't as high as jacketed, extra mass is your friend.

Wayne Smith
01-19-2013, 09:44 AM
Having an 8mm-06 (8x63) on a Turk action I can tell you that you will be limited to seating the boolits short to fit the magazine unless you extend it if you go with the 63mm length. For a gunsmith, just another operation. For one who does little metal work, a major challenge.

nicholst55
01-19-2013, 03:35 PM
If it's for cast only or predominantly cast, go with a .35 for all the reasons mentioned above. If you ever hope to hunt outside the U.S., I'd go with a 9.3X62mm because of ammo and bullet availability. There are very few premium .358" jacketed bullets available. If you don't mind hunting with a wildcat cartridge overseas, where ammo would be totally unavailable, the .338-06 might be the way to go. Once again, there are more premium jacketed bullets available in .338" than .358".

mongoosesnipe
01-19-2013, 04:47 PM
a cz 550fl in 9.3x62 in on my short list of rifles i have yet to acquire simply for the fact that i want it... from a practical standpoint for north America i think i would go 35 whelens over 338-06 and there are a lot more cast options in 35

The Kid
01-19-2013, 04:51 PM
Not to sound like I want to argue, but what isn't premium about Nosler partitions, Barnes TSX, Swift A-Frames, NorthForks, or Woodleigh Weldcores. Unless we are talking about European premiums like those from Lapua and Norma, the 35s have a large selection of great bullets. Besides which, if a 250gr Hawk launched from a Whelen will penetrate 5 feet of brownbear, it will I've done it, I don't see the need for anything too much more premium.

waksupi
01-19-2013, 07:06 PM
Keep in mind that the jacketed bullets are simply trying to duplicate what a cast boolit will do, for a lot less cost. You just need to know more about hand loading, for the cast boolit to work for you.

williamwaco
01-19-2013, 08:29 PM
.338/06. I wasn`t aware there were any other calibers available other than .338?????Robert

I had one of these many years ago.

I loved it.

Try it, you will not be dissapointed.

9.3X62AL
01-19-2013, 08:46 PM
All three calibers listed by the OP are excellent game takers. The operator might be able to discern subtle differences, but the quarry won't. I chose the 9.3 x 62 over the 35 Whelen due mostly to twist rate--the usual commercial twist in 35 Whelen barrels of 1-16" won't always stabilize bullets over 250 grains weight (length, really). The CZ-550's twist of 3 turns/meter (about 1-13") stabilizes all weights in spitzer form up to 286 grains quite well for me.

If you're having the rifle built--and can specify twist rate (e.g., 1-12"), the 35 Whelen can be loaded up to almost match the 9.3 x 62 ballistically. Practically speaking, there's little difference between the two.

FWIW, 9mm Makarov j-words can be employed as varmint bullets in the 9.3mm rifles. Numerous jackrabbits met spectacular terminations as I used said loads for case-forming 35 Whelen brass to blow the shoulders forward; I'm a big fan of multi-tasking. 90 grain Hornady XTPs at 2800 FPS do BAD THINGS to jacks. And crows on yucca stalks, too. NO, that WASN'T a shotgun, you tortoise-killing airborne vandals. Feathered fireworks!

Blammer
01-19-2013, 10:57 PM
and another vote (again) for the 35 whelen. :)
280gr spire point
260gr HP
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Cast%20boolits/35%20Cal/DSCN8842.jpg

Mk42gunner
01-19-2013, 11:09 PM
90 grain Hornady XTPs at 2800 FPS do BAD THINGS to jacks. And crows on yucca stalks, too.

Geez Al, I wonder why they didn't hold together at almost three times designed speed???

The only reason I didn't buy a Remington 700 when they started to show up on dealer shelves in the late eighties was the 1-16 twist. When I finally built my Mausers I used a 1-14 twist in both of them.

So far everything I have shot has been stabilized, but I admit I haven't used any of the ~300 grain J-words.

Robert

The Kid
01-19-2013, 11:45 PM
I haven't had any trouble getting 300gr Barnes Originals to hit nose first with my Whelen, and it only has a 16" twist. I imagine if you had some heavy spitzers stabilization might become an issue, but the RN designs seem to work fine. An aquaintance has used the 310 Woodleigh Weldcores in his 16" twist with no troubles, and claims it is a hammer on moose.

9.3X62AL
01-22-2013, 05:39 PM
Mk42--those Mak j-words held together long enough. :-) I've heard but not personally confirmed that later CZ-550 rifles in 9.3 x 62 have used 4 turns/meter twist (about 1-9.75") in order to stabilize 320 grain bullets. Why someone would feel the need for such missiles eludes me, when the caliber can send 250s at the same speed and trajectory as the 180 grain 30-06 spitzer.......and provide half again the energy of that same 30-06 loading, which is no slouch in its own right. Tell ya what--the 286 grainers at 2425-2450 FPS leave no doubt in the shooter's mind that the primers functioned--I can only imagine the joyful result from having sent a 320 out at max velocity from the caliber.

Mk42gunner
01-22-2013, 10:53 PM
The only reason I can think of is if there is still a country in Africa that allows the 9.3x62 to be used on dangerous game. I remember reading of at least one that specified .375 H&H or larger, with the exception of the 9.3x62. I kind of got the idea from reading that it was a fairly common cartridge for residents to use. ????

mstarling
01-22-2013, 11:12 PM
All three chamberings are excellent.

I have a 338-06 built on an commercial Mauser action and two 9,3x62s ... one CZ and one built on a VZ-24 Mauser action. The two 9,3x62s have been to Africa and proven themselves to fight way higher than their weight class!

I built the 338-06 to be a good alternative to my beloved .338 Win Mag. It has done nicely at that.

I haven't bought or built a .35 Whelen simply because I didn't want to stock another projectile diameter and have been pleased with the bullet selection in .338 and .366.

That said ... you cannot go wrong with any of these chamberings!

mstarling
01-22-2013, 11:22 PM
MK42,

You're right ... the 9,3x62 is a very common chambering for resident hunters in South Africa. The advantage is that rifles built with standard length actions such as the 9,3x62 are simply much handier that those built with magnum actions.

My loading for the 9,3x62 is a 286 gr Nosler Partition or a Woodleigh. Both make 2425 fps 10 feet from the muzzle.

My loading for my M70 SS Classic M70 in .375 H&H is the 300 gr Barnes TSX driven at 2604 fps. Certainly more power than the 9,3x62.

But honestly, the 9,3x62 doesn't act like a weak sister in any way!

If I'm gonna carry a heavier rifle, it'll be a .416 or a .458!