Lead Extraction Help Needed

[ChrisK]

OK, Dumb NuB Question. I was given about 15 buckets of range lead. These buckets have been sitting outside for a few years, some covered, some not so well covered. Lots of crud in it (backstop rubber, copper jackets, rusty steel jackets, lead, oxidized lead, plastic shotgun wads and god knows what else). I bought a cheap pot and cover and am heating this stuff but I only get small pockets of lead here and there that I'm getting out with a ladel. After 3 hours of this, I've only extracted about 9lbs of lead. I'm guessing that I'm missing about 40% of the lead because I can't get it to pool with all the misc crud. I'm currently using the side burner on my BBQ and I'm not sure how efficient this is with the price of propane. I tried a hot plate outside but the damn thing wouldnt even get red hot. I've got lots of lead that I really wan't. I just don't want to spend the next several years of my life trying to get it.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/sliminizer/IMGP1004Medium.jpg

I know there has to be a better way. Thoughts?

[madcaster]

Maybe a surplus soup spoon of the type that restruants use,with holes for straining and stir pretty often to get the bullet jackets to turn over and release the good stuff?

[ChrisK]

That's a thought. I do need to pick up one of those or dig around the house to see if I can improvise something. The problem is that the old busted up jackets are just a a small amount of the crud. I'm guessing that it's oxidized lead, rubber chunks, bits of jacket shavings and who know's what else, comprises the bulk of the crud. I'm guessing that about 60-70% of what is the bucket is recoverable and I'm only getting about 60% of that. I can see small veins of lead puddling up in various areas of the stuff but by the time I tip the pot to try to get it to pool to one location, lots of crud tends to tumble into the lead as well. Imagine if you threw several hand fulls of dirt into your lead and tried extracting the lead. How would you go about doing it?

[lurch]

I think I'd try melting a few WW to get a pool going then add the other stuff in a little at a time, let it melt the lead out and skim off the crap. You could also try melting a little of the stuff you have at first and hopefully accomplish the same thing. Start small - work up. As you get a bigger pool you can add more of your scrap in. When you get a decent amount of molten lead, pour ingots but leave a good pool to start building on again.

I got into the same sort of problem once with an over zealous initial charge of WW in my smelting/rendering setup - too many clips in the way to get all the lead off of them. For me it's easier to take a little more time and have less problem with too much stuff I need to get rid of in the pot at any one time.

A turkey fryer burner will work wonders too...

[454PB]

More heat and better pre-cleaning of the scrap is required. Years ago when it was easy to find lead scrap, most casters wouldn't even mess with this stuff. Any contaminates lighter than lead will eventually float to the surface if enough heat, time, and stirring is applied.

[Lloyd Smale]

you probably need more heat. Got to a store and buy yourself a turkey fryer and get a good cast iron pot and turn the heat up wide open. It will burn off alot of the plastic crap and get the pot hot enough to get the lead to go to the bottom. When i do big batches of wws i use a cut in half old hot water heater with a valve on the bottom on an open fire in the fire pit. Ive done as much as 4 buckets of wws at a time. Crap floats to the top and the lead comes out of the valve. I may loose a little tin and antimony like that but i usually alloy my ww anyway so it isnt a big consern. Range lead can be worse then ww to melt down The sand is what really sucks up the heat.

[madcaster]

I have a good friend who lives about 25 miles from me,he spreads the stuff out in his truck bed,then seperates the rubber pieces,and other trash out.Fine fella,FINE FELLA(Bill,are you listening?).
It saves on his back and is a handy worktable.A bucket or two of wheelweights and an extra couple of buckets for the seperated stuff and he is good to go.
This method lets him pick out the zinc weights,if he sees them.
If you leave the rubber pieces in there it will be a lot of smoke,and a bad smell from the burning rubber,and this is not such a good cologne as black powder.....

[madcaster]

PS,sell the bullet jackets after you get them seperated,they should bring good money so as you can buy more casting goodies!

[44man]

You are not getting heat transfer to all the pieces! You need a good puddle of lead in the pot first and then feed in small amounts of scrap then skim before adding more. Just make sure all of it is DRY. Wear a long sleeve cotton shirt an apron and gloves, a face shield too, if there is any moisture in the scrap.
A good way to get rid of any moisture is to put the scrap in a large dipper and float it on the lead until hot before tipping it.

[kodiak1]

You are going to need way more heat than the bar-b-que side burner. That was made to boil water in a pot or fry in a frying pan. Get the TURKEY FRYER and you will see how fast you have a puddle of lead going.
Don't scoop it out leave just like the others have stated that helps get the steel and junk hot. The plastics well you are picking them out and the pieces of rubber too.
You are on the right track just more heat.
Ken.

[piwo]

I bought this from Agri Supply. They are a nice outfit to deal with, and the stand is great!

http://www.agrisupplyco.com/cgi-bin/cgiitmls?m=ThisP&p=40322.000000&l=1

[44woody]

Chrisk if I had all that stuff I would go to my local recycler and see if I could trade it 15 for 10 of ww you would be much better off that way the recycler get more than he is giving and probable would be happy to do it :castmine: 44Woody

[ChrisK]

Lots of great advise here. I'm going to pick up a Turkey Fryer and If I get tired of it, I'll see if I can find a recycler that's willing to trade. I like the idea of a challange, but not too thrilled with the idea of it consuming all of my time. Lots of this stuff is pretty fine and is wet. I've thought about using newspapers, but it's going to take a long time and lots of paper and surface area. Any ideas on this?

[Goatlips]

Chris,

I gave up on newspapers to buy or sell, are you familiar with Craig's List? Ya might want to check it out, it's free. Also, you could keep your present setup and add heat from the top with a weed burner or a propane torch. As stated above, get a good puddle of lead cooking and add your dry scrap. Emphasis on the dry.

Here's my setup:

http://goatlipstips.cas-town.com/smelting.html

Uses a weed burner. Good luck! :Fire:

Goatlips

[imashooter2]

That looks exactly like the range scrap I've been smelting. Use a turkey fryer and a 12 quart dutch oven. As it melts, stir it with a long handled shovel in case there is some moisture present. It will take longer to melt than WW and the rubber will give off horrendous smoke as it burns off... use a barbecue lighter to ignite it as soon as you can. There will be considerable trash on the top of the melt. I use a loose wire skimmer intended for removing food from a deep fryer to remove same. You can get them for a couple bucks on the utensils wall at the local super market. Bottom line, it is a lot more trouble than WW, but since it is the only free lead I can get...

[imashooter2]

One more thought... I turn the buckets out into a wheel barrow and load the pot with that same long handled shovel. It is a lot easier than trying to dig the fine powdered lead out of the 5 gallon bucket and it gives you a last chance to look the stuff over for a dud .22 that might be lurking in there.

[ChrisK]

Lots of great advice here! Once the Turkey Fryer from Agri Supply arrives, I'm sure I'm going to be in much better shape. Thanks Goatlips for the advice, great website.

Now the wife is complaining about the smell. Oh well, one problem at a time ;)

[Rooster]

How about a heavy brine solution to make the rubber float and concentrate the metals? Skim off the floaters, rinse off the metal and smelt as normal. The brine could be saved in the buckets if the lid is still intact and used over and over. Rooster

[ChrisK]

Damn Rooster. Great Suggestion! Simple Solution! Lots of great minds here! Thanks!

[handyrandyrc]

You're on the right track. You'll be happy as a clam once you fire up the turkey burner and are using a big old pot. I've used an old kitchen pot, but eventually made one of my dutch ovens into my smelter pot. Can put well over 100 pounds in at a time, so make sure the fryer legs/support are up to the task.

You'll have that stuff smelted up in no time.

[wmitty]

I haven't seen it mentioned so I'm beginning to think it may be frowned upon but a very quick way of melting the scrap is to use the "Universal Key" (oxy-acetylene rig) to speed the heating of the scrap. I'm aware of the fume danger and I wear the necessary safety items. Playing the cutting tip flame over the surface of the scrap while heating it over a burner greatly reduces the time required to bring things to a liquid state. No problems so far, but I make very sure to have the wind carrying the smoke/fume away from me.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
I have taken #10 cans full of range scrap camping w/ me.
Start camp fire put on #10 can. Set up a board fairly level w/ ingut mold on, channel locks, welding gloves.
Start to set up tents ect.
Scoop junk off top w/ long handled spoon. Pore inguts.

[ChrisK]

#10 cans? Is this a coffee can or??

[randyrat]

Be aware of FMJ they explode/squirt lead under enough heat.. Use a cover and as mentioned safety equipment.

[beemer]

I recently melted down two 5 gallon cans of indoor range scrap. Finds included a primed case and a couple of live .22 rounds,the .22s had been snapped but I don't think that mattered. I inspect the stuff carefully,something like that could ruin your day.Keeping the pot covered might be a good idea. Otherwise, more heat and puddle of lead to help it get started. I add slowly and stir and dip off jackets with slotted spoon.It helps to wear a dust mask if the stuff is dusty.I don't like to breathe powdered lead. These folks have given you good advice. Seems they have been doing this too.

beemer

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
I have done it 2 times.
1st run was about 200#. Saved cans & did a melt of 175# this summer. Can use the cans at least 5 X's.
#10 cans= about 11# of refined inguts after cleaning & pouring.
#10 cans are tang cans, peanut butter cans, biggest coffe cans.
# 5 cans will do to pre heat (big fruit/tomato juice cans) hold about 7-8#.

[Blammer]

stir it. get it hot and stir and stir , the lead will sink to the bottom and the other stuff will rise.

[Rooster]

Boom Boom, how well do the cans hold up to pouring/dripping/etc.? This free melting temp. thing sounds like it might be worth a few coffee cans to try out. That is when it gets a bit colder!

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
The 2&1/2 lb coffie cans are #10 cans I think. Don't drink coffie so don"t really focus on it. Catsup, pork & beans, & other stuff also comes it the BIG CANS.
Cans don't leak much if at all, have used some over & over maybe 5-10X'S.