20ga Stuff

[Blammer]

Hope you enjoy.

Since I opened my big mouth about my 20ga slug loading attempts, I suppose I’ll share some info.

I do all of my testing out of a 20ga NEF 3” slug barrel. I have a 3-7 burris compact scope mounted on it.

My barrel is .620 on the lands and .625 in the grooves, is 24” long.

I will include pictures of the components as I use them, cause some of my descriptions and short hand don’t help anyone but me to understand what I am talking about.

Here are some basic short hand I use in my load notes.

HG refers to Hot Glue fill. I have a hot glue gun and use the medium heat hot glue sticks.

Gas Seal, or GS, that portion of a shotcup that just seals off the gasses from the burning powder. Sometimes I just trim it off of a shotcup and use it in conjunction with other components. Or if the gas seal is a separate component it will be labeled as such.

Nitro, referrs to nitro cards I use. So far I use 1/8” nitro cards. Other thickness will be specified.

Shot cup, that part of a shotgun wad that holds the shot.

Star crimp, well, standard star crimp.

Sabot, this is usually a muzzleloader sabot. For example if you shoot a 50 cal muzzleloader and want to shoot 45 cal bullets you would use a 50/45 sabot.

RB, refers to a muzzleloader round ball.

I will simply list my load components and distances tried.

I’ll try to include a target when appropriate and any other comments or notes.

Some descriptions of HOW components are loaded will include a picture to help you understand what it is.
Here are pics of the components, numbered.

1. Remington wad
2. 1/8” hard nitro cards
3. Obturator Gas Seals, called OB gas seals for short
4. Steel shot cup trimmed short and with four petals
5. Steel shot cup, un altered, note no petals, it’s solid
6. This wad is BELOW the number, it is a Winchester WAA 20
7. Federal 20S1
8. Trap Commander Wad
9. Gas seal trimmed off of Federal 20S1
10. Federal Pushin Cushin, old stock, Federals 20S1 now replaces it. You could call them identical.
11. Federal 20S1 shot cup trimmed off
12. 58/45 sabot with hot glue filled base, grey sabot
13. 54/45 sabot with hot glue filled base, orange sabot
14. 54/50 sabot with hot glue filled base, purple sabot
15. Lyman Sabot slug
16. Lee slug
17. 460gr 58 cal Minnie
18. 58 cal 525gr Hornady Great Plains bullet, (54 cal Hornady Great Plains bullet used, but not shown)
19. 54 cal cast bullet from MR. Mom here at Cast Boolits
20. 250 gr Lee REAL 50 cal bullet
21. 270gr 50 cal Ball-ett
22. .570 Hornady round ball, not shown but tried is a .595 RB from a mold purchased from Ohio Rusty. (seen one RB you’ve seen em all… )
23. 240gr Horn XTP/ Mag dia .452
24. Winchester Universal Hull
25. Remington STS Hull
26. Federal Hull
27. Cheddite Hull

Pics below.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Slug%20data/DSCN5804_num.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Slug%20data/DSCN5801_num.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Slug%20data/DSCN5799_num.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Slug%20data/DSCN5800_num.jpg

[Blammer]

Use at your own risk.

For simplicity sake I will list all of my loads for ONE type of projectile and all the testing I have done with that one before going to the next one.
Load data will follow first then a pic of the target, if no target you will see a paper plate. Some targets have Multiple tests loads shot at them, each bullet hole will have a test load number next to it for reference.

Sorry the targets show sideways, just turn your head so you can read the writing and that’s how the target was sitting.

#70 .570 RB Cheddite Hull OB gas seal 25 gr bluedot
win209 6, 1/8 nitro
20s1 shot cup only trim petal to half long
roll crimp
1260 fps
Three shots in center of target are test load.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Slug%20data/DSCN5697.jpg

#701 .570 RB Rem pushin cushin gas seal only 25 gr bluedot
win209 6, 1/8 nitro
pushin cushin shot cup trim for ball length
star crimp

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Slug%20data/DSCN5686.jpg

#702 .570 RB Rem Pushin cushin 25gr Bluedot
Win209 RB nothing special, no trim nada
star crimp just put together and try
RB won't move in hull cause of tightness
won't work in straight wall hull, too loose ball moves
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Slug%20data/702.jpg

#703 .570 RB Fed Rifled slug brass trap commander 25 gr bluedot
win209 RB
roll crimp
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Slug%20data/703.jpg

#704 .570 RB Rem OB gas seal 20 gr bluedot
win209 4, 1/8 nitro
winAA shot cup trimmed off
RB
star crimp
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Slug%20data/704.jpg

#705 .570 RB Win hull OB gas seal 20 gr bluedot
win209 3, 1/8 nitro
WinAA shot cup trimmed off
RB
Star crimp
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Slug%20data/705.jpg


#706 .570 RB Rem OB gas seal 20 gr bluedot
win209 4, 1/8 nitro
steelshot cup trim to ball height
4 petals
star crimp
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Slug%20data/706.jpg

#707 .570 RB Rem Trap Commander wad 20 gr bluedot
win209 that's it….
star crimp
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Slug%20data/707.jpg

[singleshotbuff]

Blammer,

Thanks for the info!! This is interesting to me as I am about to start work on 20ga slug/ball loads for deer hunting this fall.

I have some 58 cal minnie balls (cast from a Lee mold of course) that seem to fit well in a 20ga hull, I'd like to experiment with these. They are hollow base, which moves the center of gravity forward like a foster type slug, and they weigh 1 1/8oz. I have loaded and fired 1 round, using 1 1/8oz shot data from an older Hodgdon (I believe) shotshell manual, but then other projects got in the way of further development. I used a Remington wad, with the petals cut off leaving the gas seal and cushion section.

What are your thoughts/input on using this slug/ball? I'd like to try some round balls, but I currently do not have a 58cal RB mold. I'm always on the lookout for 20ga 1 1/8 data to work from, but it is kinda hard to find.

FWIW I have the following components available for experimentation;

W209, CCI209, CCI209M, FED209A and chedditte primers.
Win AA, Rem STS and federal hulls.
Unique, Blue Dot and HS-6 powders.
Remington power piston and Win WAA20 wads.

I can obtain other components if needed.

Thanks for any input.

SSB

[357maximum]

Blammer

Lookin good, you got a great start, but I suggest 100 yard testing, it will tell you tons more about your load than 25 or 50 yards.

I looked in my notes after our chat.......One of my best accuracy loads ever for anything slug(excluding rb) was :

Use this load at your own discretion, it was extrapolated from data from the lyman 3rd shotgun handbook and th data supplied with the mold. I shot many many of these and killed a few nice bucks with this or similar loads. That buck in my avatar was killed with similar load in fed hull.

Fiocchi new 20 gauge uncrimped brand new 2 3/4 hull primed mine are blue, I bought a a bunch on sale a BP's.

27.0 grains of IMR 4756
1 dry .200 nitro card (old alcan)
1 lubed .125 card(with bore butter in micro in baggie)
1 lage uniwad minus the yellow internal crush section (lightly lubed via shake and bake method with BP motor mica).
1 lyman 20 gauge sabot air cooled ww as cast

6star fold crimp using the old brass mec starter assembly on a sizemaster press.

1520 actual fps (pressure about 10,500 lup (guesstimate) in an unported mossy 500 cantilevered 24 inch barrel. 1.5 to 2 inch 3 shot groups at 100 all the time 1.5 on a good day 2inchers when I was tired or such....shot a few sub 1inch,but them were flukes.

Hope this helps...I spent a ton of time and money to find it, good luck.

[Blammer]

single shot buff- I have some test loads with that bullet too. I've had good luck with em! I'll try to get that data up next.

IF I had 50 or 100yds out my back door I'd shoot that instead! Alas all I have handy is 25 yd. There are only a few 100 yard targets and some 50 yard targets as that is what I did at the range. I try to cull the "experiment" loads out that don't do well at all then test at longer range.

[357maximum]

IF I had 50 or 100yds out my back door I'd shoot that instead! Alas all I have handy is 25 yd. There are only a few 100 yard targets and some 50 yard targets as that is what I did at the range. I try to cull the "experiment" loads out that don't do well at all then test at longer range.

I think you told me that once...my bad...I either wasn't listening too well or my memory is gettin shot.

[Blammer]

not a problem as other probably would have asked too! Now it's in writing! :)

[ldowindsor]

I'm not using any "slug" loads in my 20ga HOWEVER would like to get some info where I might pick up some good 3" hulls. I just starting back into reloading ant the cost of 3" 20 ga. ammo is responsible for my doing so. Hate to have to buy factory rounds just to shoot and get the hulls.

ldowindsor@aol.com

[357maximum]

Choose one, both have done me well over the years...I do normally use ballisticproducts though.

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/

http://www.reloadingspecialties.com/

[Huntsman]

Wow, I think its really great that you took the time to publish all this data & pics, My question is how tight are the following sabots in a 20g hull? I'd really like to start reloading some slugs but some components such as moulds are hard to come by, I currently use the Lee for my 12 gauge but see no listing for a 20 except the Lyman which of course is pricey.
Any input is greatly appreciated :)
12. 58/45 sabot with hot glue filled base, grey sabot
13. 54/45 sabot with hot glue filled base, orange sabot
14. 54/50 sabot with hot glue filled base, purple sabot

[Blammer]

They were put inside a shotgunwad then inside the hull.

Not put in the hull by themselves.

hmm not in my other post either....

it depended on the wad I used how "tight" it was,

my old Pushin Cushins were a tad thicker than the 20S1's but the 20S1's worked pretty good.

[Huntsman]

Where did you purchase the sabots from?

[Ken Campbell, Iowa]

Hi, I am working on a project for 3 inch 20 rifled H&R.... lathe turned cases, both alum & brass, and will start with a heeled bullet ... no sabot, just a cast/squoshed bulllet of about .635 groove dia.... or whatever proves to work ( if anything (g))....
Will attach a photo or two if I can figure this out.
Standard 20 ga Winchester cartridge in photo is 2 3/4 slug ... Are we going for too much too soon here ? (g).
*********
Oh, the cases are just rough turned inside, but am trying to keep a small powder chamber, so far the powder chamber is about 5/16 diam. Will adjust as necessary, and if the pain doesn't get too bad (g) .

Photo of slug gun and 2 x 7 weaver. Needs higher mounts, but works as is.

[45nut]

Welcome aboard Ken. Another machinist/experimenter huh? We can always use more.
Hope you enjoy the site.

[kycrawler]

those turned 20 gauge are interesting why not go to a larger dia powder chamber and use a slower powder ?

[Ken Campbell, Iowa]

Why Not More POWDER SPACE?

**********
Brass is expensive (g) and I can always easily drill out the powder space later, if I need it. But much harder to fill it up if too much air space.

regards, ken campbell, deltawerkes

[mroliver77]

Ken being you are using a heeled bullet I am assuming that the "throat?'/forcing cone starts at the case size? What is your bullet diameter? I take it with the reduced powder space you are looking to not use filler wads etc? I want to do an NEF slug gun but am debating myself whether to do 20 gauge or .410 I have Nef .223 and a couple barrel stubs so the .410 is doable too. We would like any more details you wish to give. Jay

[Ken Campbell, Iowa]

Yes, the cases are designed for heeled bullets, and the case front 1/2 inch or so is taper machined on the outside to fit down into that big forcing cone in the chamber. The bullet ( 0.625 nominal ) will be pushed into the bore by the thick case, if everything works (g) ...... It remains to be seen if the forward part of the bullet ( oops.. slug ) will have to be reduced diameter to be " bore riding"to some extent.

I am hoping to not have to use any fillers or wads, but if things don[t work just right, I will probably try some cream of wheat or corncob grinds as a wad. Or machine some really big gas checks (g).


My biggest fear at this stage is that of the case NOT expanding and sealing the gas pressure ... those case walls are pretty thick..... lathe turning brass cases ( or metal jackets for making bullets ) is difficult to make thin wall brass objects, the brass or copper tends to tear, a lot of rejects. One way to do this is to turn the brass walls thicker, as I did with these cases. If a thin wall is required, it is slow but you can chuck them up on a mandrel down the neck on a 2nd op, and turn the necks while supported on the mandrel. But wow, that is time... and not fun ...

Hope this helps, I need to get this project along a bit, dang work keeps getting in the way (g). regards, ken campbell, iowa

[Greg5278]

Blammer, what is the Wad petal thickness on the #5 in your picture, the CSD from BPI?
I know it is heavier than regular wads, but want to know the thickness at several points around it, and at the mid petal area. That way I can get a good idea of the average thickness.
Thanks Greg

[Blammer]

When I received these wads my joy went to almost immediate sadness when I started measuring these wads.

They are NOT uniform in thickness at all. They are solid and you get to cut your own petals. I have found that all of them have one side that is generally twice as thick as the other side and the two "sides" in the middle of the extremes are close to being the same. What you have is basically a lopsided wad, thicker on one side than the other and of course out of round. Which may be fine for 'shot' but not good for slugs. I plugged ahead in hopes that by some miracle a good load would develop....

(ok I exaggerated a bit. Just finished measuring several. Average thickest part was .035 and the opposited side of the wad was an average of .025. But when it was .035 it was that thick from the top all the way down to the base on that point, same for the other thicknessess measured.)

The wad was the same thickness from the top to the bottom at a given point on the circumference of the wad.

I was pleased that the wad material was pretty tough and held up well even though I didn't really get any consistent accuracy out of them.

[Greg5278]

Blammer, did you try bullets of .550-.58cal in the CSD wad? I know the concentricity is not there, but it still might work. Alot of the Factory stuff isn't concentric either.
Greg

[Blammer]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=17992

this is the second part...

[Sig shooter]

More anecdotal range test video ,,, 50yd from the write up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BAXCwv0-ig&feature=related