Unknown calibers

[Bo1]

I bought several boxes of reloading stuff from a retired competition bench rest shooter a while back, and I'm not familiar with some of the brass I got. A lot of 222, and 222mag stuff, but also 30/06 Ackley Improved, and 7mm BR.
Are these specialty rounds, and is anyone familiar with them?

[runfiverun]

they ain't that special.
the 222 and 222 mag are the fore runners to the 223 remington,and 204 ruger rounds
7br is a necked up 6br.
they competed with the palindo/palisimo case based on the 220 russian.
the 222 can still be bought in the cz rifles and is an accurate little round.

[Kraschenbirn]

7br is a necked up 6br

Actually, the 7BR is based upon the old .308x1.5, a Frank Barnes wildcat from the early 1960s. Originally developed as a possible military round, it was quickly adopted by the benchrest guys who promptly necked it down to, first, 7mm and, later, 6mm. Remington offered (2) factory guns...the 40X rifle and the XP-100 pistol...chambered for the round and was the only company ever to manufacture factory-loaded ammo or brass.

Bill

[uscra112]

And the .30-06 Ackley Improved is just a modified .30-06, blown out for more powder capacity. It gave a small advantage over the stock .30-06 when hand-loaded using the powders available in the '50s and '60s, and you could easily modify the chamber in your sporterized Springfield, which kept the cost low. Nowadays people just buy a new rifle in 7mm Rem Mag or some such.

[44man]

I shot many of those calibers and the old .222 was the most accurate of all of them.
The 7BR is also one of the best. I have one left in MOA but had an XP100 that I made a custom walnut stock for. My 10" MOA and the XP would both shoot 3/8" groups at 100 yards with a scope and rest. Bill has it correct for history.
The Ackley was good and all you needed to do was shoot 30-06 ammo and you had Ackley brass.
The PPC cartridges (Palmisano-Pindell) were based on the .220 Russian case and were top dogs but the BR rounds bit at their heels.

[rockrat]

Just send the 7mm br brass to me, I will give it a good home!!:)

[Bo1]

Rockrat,
I have a hundred that look to be unfired. I don't need them if you want them. send me a pm if you would like to trade something for them. :o)
Thanks,
Bo

[Kraschenbirn]

[QUOTE=44man;2011355]...Bill has it correct for history...[QUOTE]

History, what History? As Elmer put it: "H***, I was there!" Around the time I was a HS senior, my shooting team coach built himself a Bullpup .308x1.5 using a P.O. Ackley barrel (Ackley also made the barrels used by Frank Barnes) on an M98 action. I actually got to shoot the gun a few times and it was definitely super-accurate for its day. A few years later, during my IHMSA days, I had an XP-100 in 7BR that, like .44man's, would shoot 1/2 moa (or better) off a good solid rest. I liked the cartridge so well that, eventually, I had a Chilean Mauser rechambered just so I mess around with it in a rifle. Never got around to the 6BR, though...I still own (and, occasionally, shoot) the M700 in .243 I bought myself as a college graduation present and have never felt inclined toward reinventing the wheel.

Bill

[44man]

Yes Bill, you and I were there. Weren't the guns just great?

[1Shirt]

Times past were good times for those of us who lived them 44Man!
1Shirt!

[Bullshop]

My mind just can not fathom someone not knowing what a 222 is. 219DW I can understand but a 222!!! It seems any accuracy student spent first grade with a 222, or maybe generations have passed it by. I have become antique.

[Bo1]

Thanks for all of the info guys.

Bullshop,
I have heard of a 222, just never seen or messed with one. I grew up deer hunting with a 30-30, and bought a 270 as a late teen. Raising 4 children, in the past I never had the money or the time to collect guns, shoot a lot, or appreciate the joys of reloading. I am now 47, and have collected a lot of the more popular calibers.
Not until I started reloading last year did I start learning about all of the different "non-mainstream" calibers.
Now casting looks like it might be my next obsession.

[jbc]

I have my dad's first rifle, bought for him by my great grandfather. A remington 760 pump in .222 she is quite the rare bird. You dont see them very often. Amazing how many deer he killed with that little "varmint" gun.

[cbrick]

I've had a few XP-100's in 7BR and accurate is an understatement. Had one built by Ralph Bond with a Shilen match barrel and chamber that was simply amazing. After many thousands of rounds of jacketed through it and it started to loose it's edge I turned it into a strictly cast shooter and it was nearly as good as the day it was new.

As good as the 7BR's were I've never had anything shoot like the 6br, that XP would shoot the hair off fly's hienny at 200 meters. Almost as accurate was the 6.5 BR.

Yep the guns were amazing but back then so were my eyes, can't see the sights anymore now. The good ole days.

Rick

[Marlin Junky]

I had an '06 Ackley in the '70s and no chronograph. I wish I still owned that '06.

MJ

[mpmarty]

Had a '17 Endield by Eddystone recut to '06 Ackley. Nice shooter if one had a gun bearer to haul it around.

[madsenshooter]

A 760 in 222, now that would be a keeper. I like pump action rifles, have a model 14 in 30 Remington. It doesn't have a sling of any kind and won't as long as I have it. That way it's pretty much always carried "at the ready". If the idiots in charge ever ban semi-autos, the pump action, I think would be the way to go.

[rockrat]

cbrick

Boy, can I relate to the eyes part!!! Use to be, not only could I see the hind end of the fly at 200, to shoot it, but could tell if it was a guy or a girl:) Now, its "What Fly, I don't see anything"

[runfiverun]

yessir the 30 rem br was a good round, and then they kill it off through no support or rifle building.
then introduce the 30rar years later and i bet they just let it die instead of building a few bolt guns.
and get the 6mm twist rate wrong,and the 260's twist rate wrong.
kill off their 30 and 7mm saum... [good rounds too]
they neck up a winchester invention and it takes off just fine though..

[Pavogrande]

I never really thought about the 222 as being old --
I just introduced my granddaughters to the joy of sending a bunch of 225462 down range out the rem 722 -- But - I did buy it in 1959 --
It cost a whopping $75 with a weaver k-6 and two boxes of shells --

[Bullshop]

The 222 was about as main stream as it gets. Thats my point, WAS! Bwaaaa I am old!!!
I got married at 35 after having a long affair with the tripple duece.

[Marlin Junky]

The 222 was about as main stream as it gets. Thats my point, WAS! Bwaaaa I am old!!!
I got married at 35 after having a long affair with the tripple duece.

Aw heck, the Triple Deuce ain't old... if that's one's opinion, they must have either been born yesterday, or have just fallen off the turnip truck. :mrgreen:

Savage currently chambers two rifles for the 222.

MJ

[rintinglen]

There are guys in their late thirties who weren't born yet when I last had a .222. Reality bites.

[Bullshop]

I traded my Saeco 222 about a year ago because of a very generous offer I couldnt refuse.
I still have a carbine in 221 that serves most varmint duty until snow comes to spread things out a bit.
Now dont nobody start telling me the 221 is old and obscure.

[cbrick]

Now dont nobody start telling me the 221 is old and obscure.

221 old? Naw, as a matter of fact Remington just came back out with it in their new XP-100 pistol, 1962 I think. :mrgreen:

Rick

[fatelk]

If you have very much 222 mag brass, and want to sell it, let me know. A friend recently inherited a 222 magnum rifle with dies and was asking me about brass.

[44man]

yessir the 30 rem br was a good round, and then they kill it off through no support or rifle building.
then introduce the 30rar years later and i bet they just let it die instead of building a few bolt guns.
and get the 6mm twist rate wrong,and the 260's twist rate wrong.
kill off their 30 and 7mm saum... [good rounds too]
they neck up a winchester invention and it takes off just fine though..
Yes, so many good things go. The .244 rem was super with lighter bullets for varmints but the inferior .243 had a different twist that could handle the heavier bullets for deer so it trumped the .244. I did not like the 22-250 because it shot best with light bullets and the Swift was better with heavy but guys thought velocity with light was better.
Twist is always the deciding thing for what can be shot and if Rem would have offered two rates the .244 would still be with us. One for deer, another for chucks.
Today it is massive velocities with super magnums while a 30-30 is just fine for deer. My .44 kills more deer then a guy with a .500 S&W can think about. I admit to liking larger revolvers but have some too big.
The .222 was the best, never seen a .223 shoot as good so it is why twist rates for the .223 change so much. They admit a certain bullet needs a certain twist.
But revolver shooters think one twist can shoot 180 to 400 gr boolits.

[303Guy]

Can a 222 (or equivalent) be built using a 1-in-14 twist barrel? I have one but it's a 22lr barrel from a TOZ which is supposedly 4140 steel. I like rimmed cartridges for some reason and 22 rimmed brass can still be found I believe but what the heck, a 222 equivalent could be formed from 30-30 brass and a rifle could be built on a - wait for it - Lee Enfield action. But I really want a single shot.

[runfiverun]

the 5.6x54 is a rimmed 223 round.
airc the 22-250 is 1-14 and the hornet is somewhere near that.
iirc the older 223 diameter 40 gr bullets are for the hornets that were built on 22lr barells with a 1-16 twist.
the savage round [22 hi-power] is similar to the 30-30 necked down to 22 cal too, but some had 228 bores.
a 30-30 necked down to 22 would do what you want well enough.
you'd have about the same capacity as a 22-250 to work with.

[Bullshop]

30/30 necked to 22 cal .224" is a 219 Zipper a once populer factory cartridge. The improved zipper may equal the 22/250 in capacity.
The 219 Donaldson is a shortened 219 zipper imp that has the powder volume better adjusted to BR shooting and before the 222 bumped it from first position was the leader in the accuracy field.

[303Guy]

Anyone else subscribe to AmmoGuide? Anyway, here is a 22CF comparison. Missing is the 22 Varmint-R, a Canadian invention which is a shortened 303 Brit case - that might be a better bet for me, being of smaller capacity and I don't want to burn out the barrel. Besides, I would want to use cast in it and maybe paper patched (preferably paper patched but I'm not so sure about patching such a tiny boolit with my clumsy fingers).

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/22CFcomparison.jpg

[leadman]

And nobody has mentioned the 225 Winchester. I made the mistake of having a Contender 223 Rem barrel rechambered to this round. Could not even duplicate 223 velocities before the action would not want to open.

[Alan in Vermont]

Something nobody has mentioned is that both the PPC and BR Rem.s used small primers. It was claimed that the small primers contributed to the phenomenal accuracy of both designs.

I campaigned an XP in 7 mm. BR Rem. for a while shooting IHMAS Unlimited with it. Nice gun, shot well, way better than I could. I don't think I can cast in it but I did in 7mm. TCU out of 10" Contender in Production class. I never did buy TCU dies, I got by with neck sizing and seating TCU cases in the BR dies. Fireforming was as simple as forcefully closing the gun on 5.56 loaded rounds and pulling the trigger.

[1Shirt]

Yep, Ve got to soon old, and to late smart! My old 222 is still one of my most accurate rifles. Sort of a mini 06!
1Shirt!

[**oneshot**]

As stated the 222 and the 7br are super accurate.

[cbrick]

I campaigned an XP in 7 mm. BR Rem. for a while shooting IHMAS Unlimited with it. Nice gun, shot well, way better than I could. I don't think I can cast in it but I did in 7mm. TCU out of 10" Contender in Production class.

7 BR in an XP works well with cast, I've shot 80x80 in NRA National Champs with the RCBS 145 SPGC. I had somewhat less luck with the 7TCU but I worked with it far less.

Rick

[runfiverun]

thank's dan,
i couldn't remember the name of the round.
i could picture it in my head but no way could i remember the name.
maybe that's why we remember the old rounds and can't remember lunch.