My new Lyman Great Plains rifle

[Maven]

All, You may recall me asking about the drop in the stock of the Lyman Great Plains rifle v. that of the T/C Hawken maybe 2 months ago. If not, I'll briefly recapitulate. Although I've owned the Hawken for quite some time, I almost always fired it from a rest. Fired from the shoulder, my eye is at least 2" above the front sight (much like a shotgun) unless I contort my neck, head and cheek to get a proper sight picture: Not a good thing and not very comfortable either! In short, I began looking at Track of the Wolf's site hoping to get some ideas about affordable guns with more drop in the stock. After several weeks of this, I discovered an unfired, kit-built Great Plains rifle (.50cal., 1:66 twist) with all furniture browned ("chocolate brown" on my invoice), a striped ramrod and nicely finished stock, and at a very attractive price to boot. Yup, I bought it and it arrived last evening and it's a beauty: Nicely balanced (the Hawken is not), good set triggers and it fits perfectly! After shouldering it a few times, I did the same for the Hawken. There was no comparison. The lock work (Investarms) is essentially a clone of T/C's and feels the same to me. If the weather cooperates tomorrow, I'll take it to the range for a "test drive" and report my results here. Btw, the Hawken is now on E-Bay: One auction for the bbl. & ramrod and a second for the stock and everything else.

[ktw]

I think you did the right thing by getting a Lyman GPR. I also have one and live it.

However, for others with the same issues with the TC Hawkens, you can get longer Green Mountain drop-in replacement barrels for them and replacement stocks with more drop to them from Track of the Wolf or Pecatonica River (http://www.longrifles-pr.com/).

Then get yourself a replacement lock from L&R and you won't even have a TC anymore. ;-)

-ktw

[Maven]

ktw, I knew about the L&R replacement lock and the allegedly "drop in" stock, bit after speaking to someone at the Log Cabin Shop about the latter, I learned that it's not a drop in at all and expensive to boot. Both of these were better than 60% of the price I paid for the Great Plains rifle.

[44man]

I sold my TC because it never fit the human body.
Hey Maven, is Dan Kindig still kickin? I had to leave Ohio long ago. I bought all of my stuff from the Log Cabin. They tried like the devil to get me to build rifles for them but the price was not worth the labor.
I'll say one thing, they knew what made a gun shoot. So did Bill Large.

[RBak]

I sold my TC because it never fit the human body.

FWIW, I suspect that the above statement is the one single fault that I hear expressed most about TC Hawken rifles....and, although I own 5 of the darn things, I feel exactly the same way.:(

I also own a GPR, plus several other brand names, and I strongly believe that one is just about as bad as the other when it comes to actual "fit".

We all have different taste, especially when it comes to how a muzzleloader should look, and feel.
Plus, we all come in many different sizes and shapes, making "fit" a tremendously difficult factor to control.
As for myself, I really do like the looks of the TC Hawken, albeit the GPR is supposedly the rifle that looks most like the half-stock creation of Sam Hawken.

Now, when it comes to "fit" or balance, IMHO, it don't get much better than something along the lines of a Ansley Fox side by each in 12 bore....along with several nice English doubles I've held, or shot over the years.

If I just had a nice 62cal smoothie, that felt and balanced like the 1905 Fox I own, I would be one happy camper.

Just thinking out loud, I guess....

Respectfully, Russ

[Maven]

RussB, Shortly after (10 minutes at most!) the Ly. GP arrived I shouldered it and then the T/C Hawken just to see if the sight picture was what it should be: It was! With the Hawken (and Cherokee), I had to crane and strain my neck + move my cheek several inches back, i.e., toward the stock butt, to get a proper sight picture. Moreover, the balance of the Ly. was a good deal better than the Hawken. On the other hand, both T/C's were a pleasure to shoot from a rest. Btw, I've since sold both rifles and two extra Hawken bbl's.

[RBak]

Maven....I was wondering if you might have heard about the way one is supposed to hold the Hawken to the shoulder?
I have heard this story many, many times, and was even showed a couple of times on the "correct" way to hold these guns.

It is very hard to describe the way it is to be held, but suffice to say, that for me, at least, it is not only backasswards, but extremely uncomfortable....and, if you don't have it just right, you will actually get bruised...bad!

Long story made short; The sharp butt (heel) is placed at about a 30 degree angle, and over the muscle of the shoulder itself. the toe of the butt is actually under the arm...in the arm pit. Then when the arm / elbow is elevated to the shooting position, the sights are rotated into line.....does that make sense???

The few folks I know who do this actually believe in the method, and for all I know it may actually be the correct way to hold these things.....but, if it is I am not astute enough to see any advantage to this strange, and somewhat awkward position.

Regretfully, the selling of several muzzleloaders is something I have to do also....and pretty soon too.
I could probably have a real nice front-loader, maybe even one from Steve Zinn, if I were to sell about a dozen or so of the plain Jane's I have gathering dust.
At 69 years old, there is simply no way I will ever get around to shooting, and actually using all these guns again.
There is just not enough trips left in this old boy....Besides that, I have a couple of favorites that I call my "go-to" guns that I dearly love to shoot.

Respectfully, Russ...

[RBak]

Maven....When you first got your GPR, I was going to show you a picture of the group that I shot with my GPR sometime back when I was experimenting with a load for this gun.
This is a 12 shot group, and the shot at 6:30 was the only flier in the group....The intentions of this particular experiment was to fire 12 shots w/o wipping the bore.
But, from habit, after the 11th shot I pulled out the ol' rod and ran a patch through it..... without even thinking.

Was it the cleaning that caused that flier?
Or, was it just me, after realizing what I had just done?
Or, was it the fact that I can't stand prosperity? :drinks:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v143/RussB256/?action=view&current=Bench50ydGPR.jpg

Respectfully, Russ...

[Maven]

RussB, VERY impressive target! One of my shooting buddies uses the same expression ("Can't stand prosperity") when he gets a flyer or slightly out of group shot too. As for the repro. Hawkens, I don't know why they don't have enough drop in the stock as it would have been a rather simple matter to examine or photograph some of the originals. Btw, I have a Navy Arms (Investarms) muzzleloading 20ga. shotgun (with 2 screw in chokes no less) that the manufacturer mated to a Hawken stock and the sight picture is just right for a shotgun (tested it against my Ithaca Mod. 37), but the pits if you want to try it with a RB. The bbl. is 1/2 octagonal, 1/2 round with a large brass bead at near the muzzle. It too will be going to one of the auction sites in the next couple of weeks.

[waksupi]

A crescent butt plate, should be shot with the butt resting between bicep, and shoulder muscle.

[RBak]

A crescent butt plate, should be shot with the butt resting between bicep, and shoulder muscle.

I'm sure that is more descriptive than all the gibberish I tried to write.
At least someone knows what I'm "trying" to say.

The question in the back of my mind remains, just how effective is this method when used properly?
As I said before, those I know who actually use this position swear by it.
But many, like myself, can't seem to get it right.
So we just do whatever feels right as the next best thing.

I suspect we have all heard the old saying that, "Practicing anything wrong will never get it right"...or something to that effect.

Respectfully, Russ...