New to muzzleloading - help wanted!

[selmerfan]

Okay,
I just purchased a used, excellent condition .50 cal American Knight muzzleloader to get my feet wet and see if I like the whole muzzleloader thing. I'm an experienced handloader and caster. However, everything that I read talks about using sabots with the in-line MLs. I'd like to cast projectiles for shooting targets and deer with this thing - can I? Should I cast .45 cal boolits in the 300-350 gr range and lob them using a sabot? Or cast full-bore .50 cal projectiles, such as a minie or maxi ball and give that a run? This isn't a "magnum", I'm not looking for screaming velocities, just good accuracy out to a couple hundred yards at most for Minnesota's ML option seasons. Some guidance is welcome!

[mooman76]

You should be able to cast your own conicals and shoot. Probably have to stay in the lighter charges range but each gun is different and you have to see, That's half the fun. Inlines with the tighter twist seem to do better with an over powder wad. You should be able to shoot roundballs too with light charges.

[curator]

Selmerfan,

Most inline muzzle loading rifles shoot full-bore heavy conical bullets very well. I am personally a fan of the Lee R.E.A.L. .50/320 in my inline rifle. This slug has a lot more "punch" than .44 or .45 caliber pistol bullets in a plastic sabot. I cast mine from 1 in 30 tin/lead alloy and hand lube them with a 50/50 bee's wax/Lard lubricant. I have loaded them over three Triple-seven pellets and while they shoot accurately, the recoil made shooting not much fun. My normal load is 70 to 90 grains of FFg or Pyrodex RS, and two hard felt wads between powder and bullet. I have not shot these much past 150 yards so I could not comment on anything farther. An interesting phenomenon with black powder is the ability to obturate soft lead bullets to fill the rifling. I have successfully experimented with shooting .500 diameter soft lead bullets made for the .50AE that slid easily down my rifle's bore. 400 and 450 grain bullets shot quite accurately. I lost interest when I came back with bruises (I need a heavier rifle). I see no reason why a modern inline muzzle loading rifle cannot replicate the ballistics of the Buffalo Hunter era .50-90 or .50-110 rifle cartridges.

[quilbilly]

You should be able to shoot either quite well. Personally I prefer sabot with a 429 cast boolit in the 50.

[selmerfan]

Thanks for the info and encouragement - it's a 1-28" twist 22" barrel.

[chrisw]

mine shoots less than a MOA w/ sabots....

[selmerfan]

chrisw - I should would appreciate details about what you're sending down the bore!

[shredder]

My inline shoots a few things well and only one or two things exceptionally. Like yours, mine has a fast twist and a modern design. Look at these:http://www.prbullet.com/

The "extreme elite" line in .50 cal 260 grain shoots almost 1 hole in my inline with 90 grains of FFF goex black powder. I also use the vari flame adapter from the same outfit with the small raifle primer and it really tightened things up. Have a good read on that site, the fellow who runs it has a wealth of information to share.

I have also had a great run with the Hornady 240 grain XTP bullet in the factory sabot packs. On top of 100 grains of pyrodex "select", that load has taken dozens of deer for me in the generous bag limits of years gone by. I trust it completely and have never had anything remotely like failure from that bullet. Put one in any deer's chest cavity inside of 100 yards and you will need your skinning knife right quickly! I have recoeverd one or 2 over the years but most sail right on through, just the way I like it!

I have shot many cast boolits in my rifle as well including the T/C maxi ball and the great plains designs. I cast both with Lyman moulds and vastly prefer the Great plains in my rifle. At 400 grains lubed with a 50/50 mix of beeswax and 1000 plus natural lube they group very nicely but the do kick a mite! The maxi ball never did shoot as well as I would like for whatever reason. I should mention also that I put a T/C lubed felt wad on top of the powder charge when I load the cast boolits. It really seems to help on target. I cast mine from pure lead and can tell you when they hit something within 100yds, it STAYS HIT! Never had to trail up a deer that took a great plains through the rib cage. They do not shoot as well as the sabots from PR though, and that is why I pretty much only shoot the exreme elite these days.

When I was working up a load for hunting this last fall, I had a target that I would take one shot at each range visit, then bring it back out for the next time. Over the course of 4 visits in 4 weeks I shot from a cold clean muzzle loader just like in the field. All 4 cold clean barrel shots went in to what can only be called a one hole group on that target. For a hunting rifle, that is the kind of thing we all dream of and really inspires confidence when you hit the field.

I should mention that NO other muzzle loader I have ever fired has done this consistently, so keep in mind a reasonaboe standard of accuracy might be 2" or so at 100 yds. No deer will escape that kind of accuracy.

My follow up shots without cleaning did similarly but not nearly so tight a group. Still at zero and accurate enough for a follow up shot, but after that one reload, things get really dicy getting anything down the bore with the acccumulated fouling and a wipe clean is in order.

All I want from my muzle loader in a hunting situation is a deadly accurate first shot from a cold clean barrel that I can take to the bank. Every time all the time. Then, I would like a second shot in the fouled barrel reloaded quickly to hit somewhere in the same neighborhood as the first. Seems simple, but your rifle will tell you what it likes and what it does not like. This process can take a while and you may get frustrated as you work out just how to correctly clean and maintain your rifle and how to correctly load and prepare your rifle for flawless firing in the field. A labor of love that can drive you NUTS! It can also be very rewarding when you finally find that magic load. Good luck and good shooting!

[Sergeant Earthworm]

I don't own an inline any more but I did learn a few things while I had one. Cast pistol boolits in sabots may or may not work well in your rifle. My dad has a .50 caliber Knight that shoots about two inches at 100 yards with cast .45 caliber/saboted (if that's a word) pistol boolits and Pyrodex. My inline, a .50 TC Omega with the same twist rate did not shoot cast boolits as well but shoots the Hornady XTP jacketed very well. However, I was using Black Powder which may have been a factor.

I think the bottom line is you just have try different projectiles and loads to find out what works. But I would definitely recommend trying cast pistol boolits. For one thing they are a lot cheaper than some of the alternatives.

p.s. I sold the Omega because in Colorado pellets, sabots, and optics are illegal for hunting, so that pretty much eliminates the advantages of hunting with an inline. Besides, traditional is cool.

[johnson1942]

have you ever thought about paperpatching for that fine rifle you have just aquired? if so post an interest and i will give you some specks what will shoot hard and accurate in that very good rifle. if it is a .50 1/28 twist you can shoot between a 500 grain and 600 grain paper patch bullet in it with extreem accracy and unbelievable knock down power. i vacation at lake winne every summer and my mother lives in minn. i know about black bears up their, 5 of them were next to our cabin last summer. hunt one with a paper patch bullet out of your fine rifle next season, a well placed 550 pp bullet with 125 grains of 25 black powder behind it will get you some good bear meat and a nice trophy rug. i love minn, if i had the finances i would have a cabin on a pristine lake up north and fish and fish and fish. the biggest white tails i have ever seen is in minn. they look like elk.

[chrisw]

chrisw - I should would appreciate details about what you're sending down the bore!

Shredder said it all :-)

I "tweaked" my guns. Sanding below the omega to make sure its free floating and some bigger mods in my old traditions. (both shoot sub-moa, that omega will likely be less than 1/2 MOA but not enough paper left w/ 5 shot groups to measure! :-)


Hornady XTPs are what I've used the past few years but going to try those Canadian bullets this year i think (slick glide or whatever they are called are the same bullet as the XTP w/ different sabot)

biggest part is getting the RIGHT sized sabot for your bore. As tight as it can be without "crushing" or getting ground up when loading. Load fast and in a solid push getting the rifling (bullet twists going in). If its too loose (or too tight) it doesn't twist in

run a dry patch or two every shot and a brush if it starts to feel tight when loading.

once you get your right sabot buy a ton cause they sure like to change um up (I just ran out myself and need to find a new one since the older ones aren't made anymore)

play with powder loads- 777 did ok- 92-93 for the Thompson and 98-99 for the omega worked FOR ME, can't wait to try this buckhorn 209 though!

going to likely change to LR primers from the 209''s this year too

[idahoron]

A paper patched Lee 500 S&W bullet over 80 gr of Pyrodex P will shoot well out of that gun out to and beyond 200 yards. Ron

[HARRYMPOPE]

I also use 80g of Pyro P(or 777-3F) in a 50 with a conical.I have tried "real" black but the Pyro is more accurate.

[corey012778]

I have the same gun, 85grs of pyro p is around the magic number on mine. I can shoot both .429 and 451 250gr xtps, tc sure fires 240gr and cheapshots 230grs, hornady FPB (conical) and lee 252-255 all with mmp sabots.

[deerslayer303]

The fun part of muzzleloading is finding what 'your" rifle likes best. I have an inline and it does excellent with hornady low drag sabots with 250gr XTP bullets over 2 Pyro pellets. I don't shoot it much anymore as I would rather shoot my sidelocks. But you can't take anything away from an inline they are absolute tack drivers. Good luck and post up a range report when you get around to making some smoke.

[deerslayer303]

But back to the OP. But yeah try casting a 45 cal bullet and shove it in a sabot. I think full bore conicals like a REAL would prefer a slower twist rate, but I could be wrong. So many conicals out there to make your testing FUN

[chrisw]

edit- the Thompson Shock-wave and Hornady SST are same bullet, but the Sabots are different- and the slick glide in the shock.wave is the Sabot.

sorry about confusing statement in my post above. I do think the SST might be a little hard BUT my step-kid did find a fragment of lead in the shoulder roast we ate for dinner tonight so perhaps they are mushrooming/expanding more than I thought.

these SST/Shock waves are the most accurate Sabotted rounds I've shot so far but unless you hit bone they just go strait through. That said, its not necessarily a bad thing since it is .45" wound channel but since I prefer heart/lung shots I'd rather have something that expands a bit more.

Then again, 60 feet is the farthest I've ever had one run after being hit by a SST/Sure-Glide

oh well, like someone said earlier- much of the fun is figuring out making your gun work its best! Ii guess I just need to figure out new Sabots for both my guns and dial it in with the SST's and 209 powder then I can look for a new bullet!