H110 Inconsient Data

[wire nut]

Wanting to try H110 With the Lyman 358156 swc. I have been looking at load data that is very conflicting. I am finding data with start loads at 11.6 grs and max at 15.7. Some of the data shows max anywhere from 14.5 up to 18 grs. This is from the lyman cast manual, the lyman handgun manual and the lyman manual#48. I have looked at hodgdons web site and the hodgdon manual and they do not list H110 with any cast bullet.
These bullets are water quenched clip on wheel weights. I will be shooting in a carbine and a revolver. I thought that H110 should not be reduced more than 3% from max but some of these show reducing more that 25%.
I need good load data. Any help from someone that have used h110 It would be greatly appreciated.

Jim

[500MAG]

Not a big fan of h110 in 357 mag or 38 special. Great for 44 magnum. Whatever you do beware of reduced loads with h110, it was meant for ba**s to the walls loading.

[knifemaker]

Since H-110 is made by Hodgon, I would use their data. Find the load given for a J-bullet of the same weight as your cast boolit and use the starting load for that bullet and work up. A cast lead boolit will give less pressure using the same load with a J-bullet.

[runfiverun]

it's not really conflicting data.
it is reflecting available case space.
12 grains with boolit -x is compressed slightly or touching the base of the boolit.
15 grains with boolit -y is compressed slightly or touching the base of the boolit.
it's about loading density not weight.

[XWrench3]

With H110, if in doubt, play it safe, and CALL HODGEDON! they are quite friendly, and they are used to dealing with reloading questions. that is after all, the purpose of their phone lines. they do not want you to grenade a firearm any more than you do. p.s. the phone number is right on the bottle for easy reference.

[MT Chambers]

Mag. primer, lots of case neck tension, solid roll crimp in a proper crimp groove, or lots of unburn't powder and inconsistent ignition.

[cbrick]

Mag. primer, lots of case neck tension, solid roll crimp in a proper crimp groove, or lots of unburn't powder and inconsistent ignition.

Not that that's confusing but in what? With what?

I use H-110 in my match long range 357 revolver and experience none of what you mention.

Rick

[Bullshop]

That happens with H-110 if you dont use enough of it in the load to get the pressure up to the minimum that allows it to burn properly. H-110 has a very narrow pressure window and it is at the top end. Load below that window and you get what was described.

[wire nut]

The inconsient load data that I mentioned was with just the one bullet.I am under the impression that I need to load very near max for good performance. The lyman manual shows almost 33% reduction as a start load for H110. The next line down only shows max load with ww296 for the same bullet. there should be no difference with seating depth or bullet length. The powder density would be the same. If not please explain.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

From what I've read H110 will melt your cast bullet without a gas check. I did use H110 with a Lee GC design but it wasn't very accurate now I just use H110 with XTP's

[cbrick]

From what I've read H110 will melt your cast bullet without a gas check.

58444

Let me guess, you heard that on the internet and believed it right?

No chance! No way! No how!

Some times it seems the old wives tales are getting worse and worse. Who is spreading such rediculous nonesense?

Rick

[leadman]

I've used H110 behind the 429421 which is a plainbase with no problems at all. Very accurate, just has a good dose of recoil for my old hands.

[MtGun44]

"Melt your boolits without a gas check."

LOL!

I use H110 at 16+gr (see Hodgdon's excellent site for the limits) under a number of
different bare bottomed boolits with superb results. No unburned powder, nothing but
really good groups and high velocity, zero leading.

Bill

[GaryN]

Ummm, I've used H110 in the 44 magnum for at least 35 years. At least 30 years with cast. I keep hearing about how it causes all these problems but I never saw any. I bought a 20 bag of it in the middle seventies. I sure wish you could still buy powder that cheap.

[GaryN]

Oh and the only boolits of mine that wear gas checks get shot out of the rifle.

[cbrick]

I use H110 at 16+gr (see Hodgdon's excellent site for the limits) under a number of
different bare bottomed boolits with superb results. No unburned powder, nothing but really good groups and high velocity, zero leading. Bill

Come on Bill admit it, your boolits melt right in the bore don't they? :mrgreen:

Rick

[44man]

From what I've read H110 will melt your cast bullet without a gas check. I did use H110 with a Lee GC design but it wasn't very accurate now I just use H110 with XTP's
:bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2:
That is funny! Why don't you listen to Rick? And you know they can't put anything on the internet that is not true? Bonjour!
First, Hodgdon does NOT make powder, they buy it from many powder makers.
Next H110 and 296 are the same powder from the same powder maker. Long ago a slight difference in burn rate went to Hodgdon and another went to WW. But now Hodgdon canisters both so they might be exactly the same. There was at one time 1/2 gr difference, not much different then lot to lot.
You can't download either and as explained it is airspace. Airspace creates a too fast ignition because more powder is ignited right away. Both powders need a more progressive burn. Airspace also goes the other way and moves powder away from primer heat and it can fail to light off. Primer choice is so important. You don't have one situation, you have two.
Manuals confuse for sure. Tough with cast because a small boolit change can change the starting and max loads.
I would listen to fellas here that shoot the .357 with the 358156 and use their loads.
WHY Lyman shows a low starting load with H110 and not with 296 is crazy, SAME POWDER but WW always said no reduction.

[Charlie Two Tracks]

Listen to these "old hands" about H-110. It is a fantastic powder for me. 16 gr.+ under a LEE 158 RNFP and you will become a believer. I listened to them and found some great loads. Maybe--- maybe my boolits do melt from the H-110 and then resolidify in the barrel there by forming a perfect fit! I hadn't thouight about that...........just kidding of course. I have found this to be a fantastic site for finding out the truth of what goes on casting and reloading.
Super Sneaky Steve, I hope you don't take offence. I had to relearn everything I knew about cast boolits. It is incredible what velocities you can get with cast.

[Bullshop]

The loading books are to give us safe starting loads but after that it is the gun we need to listen to not the book or the internet.

[44man]

The loading books are to give us safe starting loads but after that it is the gun we need to listen to not the book or the internet.
I found books were wrong with the .454 and every starting load of H110 or 296 with any SR mag primer would fail to ignite the powder for a few shots. I took a brass rod down to my range. Only max was ignited but accuracy was sad. Changing brass to a LP primer or using cut down .460 brass showed a LP primer would ignite every load but using a LP mag made the guns accurate.
You are 100% correct about books and the net.
But don't include this site on the net, knowledge is here.
A funny thing! I can read other sites but am banned. They repeat what I have said and repeat what many of our great people say. Moderators repeat my words over and over and I think they snuck in here to get information from our best that they repeat. None of them can come up with answers on their own.

[milsurpaddict]

Just my two cents. I called Hogdon today and asked about using H110 with my 357 loads using a 158 grain SWC cast boolit from lee mold. Dave at Hogdon told me that it not compatible with H110 for that size of boolit. He told me maybe a 180 grain boolit for 357 but nothing less and even then not recommended. He in fact told me not to use it in anything other than at minimum 44 mag.

[Bullshop]

Just my two cents. I called Hogdon today and asked about using H110 with my 357 loads using a 158 grain SWC cast boolit from lee mold. Dave at Hogdon told me that it not compatible with H110 for that size of boolit. He told me maybe a 180 grain boolit for 357 but nothing less and even then not recommended. He in fact told me not to use it in anything other than at minimum 44 mag.

He is confirming what others have said here that it requires a minimum pressure to burn correctly, and that the 158gn boolit is insufficient to provide enough resistance to generate sufficient pressure to reach the minimum level staying within the volume limits of the 357 mag case. He did offer a possible alternative in that going with much heavier boolits may provide the needed resistance, but then volume is still an issue depending on OAL limits. The heavier boolit may provide the needed resistance but because of an OAL limit may have to be deaper seated reducing case volume so you have to use less powder simply because it wont fit, a catch 22 situation.
Solution is go a step faster in burn rate to something like 2400.

[wire nut]

Thanks guy's for the help. I have been using 2400 in the past with so-so results. I was wanting to try something different. May try Blue Dot. Everytime I have found an accurate load it will lead like crazy in my marlin 1894.
I water quenched these boolits and wanted to try H110 but the differences in load data threw me off. I am sizing my boolits at .360 so I do not think this is the problem. Lube is homemade with bees wax, parifin, vasoline and STP. The first 3 were all equal amounts

[white eagle]

I've had my barrel melt without a gas check

[Super Sneaky Steve]

Super Sneaky Steve, I hope you don't take offence. I had to relearn everything I knew about cast boolits. It is incredible what velocities you can get with cast.

No no, all in good fun. I did read on another forum of a guy who got pitting on recovered bullets. This obviously isn't normal according to you guys so I learned something new. I'm a battle harded internet warrior with thick skin so bring your best :D

[waksupi]

I've had my barrel melt without a gas check

Huh? What?

[Bullshop]

Super Sneaky Steve
Would you define what you mean by pitting please. Sometimes the bases of fired boolits will show what could be called pitting. It is from air pockets that were near the surface at the base. It is caused from a couple things like inadiquate venting at the vent lines and mold interface seem and as well as an alloy temp that causes the sprue to freeze too quickly to allow any trapped air to escape or too slow a casting rytham. These air pockets will collaps under the pressure of fireing and look like pits in the boolit base. This has nothing to do with the base of the boolit melting when fired but is a flaw in the casting.

[swheeler]

I've had my barrel melt without a gas check

that's funny man:):)

[44man]

Just my two cents. I called Hogdon today and asked about using H110 with my 357 loads using a 158 grain SWC cast boolit from lee mold. Dave at Hogdon told me that it not compatible with H110 for that size of boolit. He told me maybe a 180 grain boolit for 357 but nothing less and even then not recommended. He in fact told me not to use it in anything other than at minimum 44 mag.
It has something to do with the primer too. I just don't know about them in a .357 but we have shot a lot of H110 with that boolit. Strange things go on.
296 and H110 CAN be reduced a certain amount but it really does change with the caliber. But what affect is the primer?
I would not fear either powder in the .357. We use so many different alloys and expanders so a powder can fail.
I have never seen where either powder is hard to ignite unless you blow the boolit and powder into the barrel.

[cbrick]

Being a big fan of heavy for caliber boolits I've little experience with lite for caliber but I do agree with what it seems Hodgdon is saying. H-110 needs the extra resistance of boolit weight to get it correctly burning. By the same token 44man is correct that too little neck tension and blowing the boolit foward before proper burning begins will give really poor results with H-110. H-110 needs to be near full book load and a heavy for caliber boolit, good neck tension and when it has these things it is an excellent powder giving good velocity and accuracy.

Rick

[303Guy]

I did read on another forum of a guy who got pitting on recovered bullets.
It could be this kind of pitting.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/30grFILLER_35grNOFILLER_2209_208gr-1.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/194grwithwithoutWB008.jpg

The first is from H4350 and the second from W748

[44man]

It could be this kind of pitting.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/30grFILLER_35grNOFILLER_2209_208gr-1.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/194grwithwithoutWB008.jpg

The first is from H4350 and the second from W748
Yes, I call it sandblasting, not melting. High speed, high pressure particles will pit steel.
Gas channels at the sides of boolits are mostly from pressure leaks and most is not from melting of the lead but from pressure like cutting steel with water pressure.
Now I don't know if the pressure squirts actually melt the lead or just blow it away. I am inclined to think it is mechanically blown out.
A good boolit with no leakage never can get hot enough to melt as time is too short.
Even a plastic over powder wad will not melt and a paper wad does not burn. I have found Dacron filler on the range that did not melt. I used a newspaper wad over a primer and still had paper to pick out.
To melt a boolit base?????
Powder gas can exceed the melting point of steel but everyone forgets TIME the heat is applied. You can pass a torch over your hand or pass your hand over a candle, just don't hold it there.
I need to add, some of that damage is SLUMP!

[Bullshop]

Dents on the base can happen with slow burning rifle powders. The progressive burn has the bottom on the powder column burning and building pressure while the top of the powder column not yet being burned is pressing against the boolit base causing the dents that are the shape and size of the powder kernals.
Often times if the burn rate is slow enough the front and of the powder column will not burn at all but will just be blown out with the boolit. The powders you have mentioned here are in the slow rifle class.
If you shoot over snow you will see just how much of this type powder is blown out the barrel unburned.

[dragon813gt]

I guess I'm doing something wrong. All I use in my 357 is H110. I shoot mainly heavy for caliber bullets. But I was give a bucket of 158 grain SWCs of unknown design that I shoot as well. They're gas checked but quite a few have lost them and I've shot them as well. I know you should always listen to the powder manufacturer. But my results are to good and my supply to high to stop using H110 in my 357.

[cbrick]

Exactly, precisely, yep what Jim said.

Lead does not, cannot melt being fired. That it does is nothing more than an old wives tale trying to explain why gas checks work. Jim's example of gas cutting being like cutting steel with high pressure water is perfect. The water does not melt the steel and the gas pressure does not melt the lead.

I've seen many examples of powder kernels impressed into the base of a plain base boolit exactly as Bullshop explains.

Rick