Amazing. . . a different animal

[Gibson]

First:

Yesterday I was down because I broke out the 45-70 and had troubles. . .

It's a beautiful rifle, immaculately cared for. 1975 Marlin (1895, 22" barrel). Of course, I'm doing my usual begin at max and go up. Went to some 500 grainers that I cast a week ago. I have to shoot these single shot. Damned if I didn't get one stuck. Had to pull the bolt, outside, in the rain, and mad. . . Ended up disassembling the gun. . . then finally got it squared away and the SOB would not lever! So I took the lever back out and went into the house. Got on castboolits "chat", a rarity for me; a guy on there sent me his phone number to try and help. Turns out he's a gunsmith, retired. He spent an hour and then went and got his own and disassembled it trying to help, ONE HELLUVA GUY! Well, we gave up. This morning I got up and fixed it. No idea how I did it. No more spitzer'ish bullets. From now own its paper patched PB 500 grainers. :)

So today I went back outside and sent 10 420 grain FN bullets downrange. I loaded 46.5 grains of IMR 3031, used CCI 250 primers. Beautiful. It's a bit of a different animal. I had noticed yesterday before the disaster that the rounds were hammering the backstop. Well it was affirmed today, that 45-70 packs a punch. The recoil is not bad at all despite what folks say. (Before I came in yesterday I shot a cylinder from the BFR, to try and relax me now that's interesting, as always. It will definitely wake you up in the mornin.) I finished up with the 30-06, today, using 185 grain cast bullets atop 21.5 grains of WC820. Fun, fun. I bought one of those cheap Rem700 ADLs, with the cheesy scope. You know what? That rifle is just fine, as is. I had intended to put some big money into it by basically tossing everything except the action. Going to make myself a long range rifle. Changed my mind; glad I did. Took the .44 mag (see sig) out to blast some HPs out of it but decided I was having too much fun :) Shoot it tomorrow.

I'm hooked on shooting that 45-70! I still need to understand why the the large screw on the left side of the receiver cannot be tightened down w/o locking up the action. But for now I'm just backing it out a few turns. Might file some of it off ;) The 45-70 is mild as milk compared to say shooting 600 grain slugs out of a Mossberg 590 at 1665 fps. That kicks a bit.

Thanks to all of the fine folks here for encouragement and advice

[MtGun44]

Good that you are having fun. I have always told folks that the most powerful gun that most will ever
shoot (and hardest kicking, too) is a light pump 12 ga fixed breech gun (no autos) with full power
(or ever better 3" Mag) slugs. Very serious stuff, and some of the guns are 6.5-7 lbs. I'm sure
that the .458 Lott, .500 NE and .460 Weatherby class is more powerful and kicks harder but most
shooters will never even SEE one, let alone shoot it.

.45-70 is around 140 yrs after it came out for a REASON. Powerful, accurate, not too tough to get it working right. In
my experience, a 405 boolit at about 2100 in a GG will kinda water your eyes. I hunt with 405 at about 1750,
much more pleasant on my end and I doubt the effects on the
other end are much different.

Bill

[Gibson]

Hey Bill!

http://www.brenneke-munition.de/cms/fileadmin/BrennekeUSA/Law_enforcement/user_upload/Produkte/SF_MBPM.jpg

"Brenneke USA makes shotgun slug ammo to suit any application. This Special Forces Maximum Barrier Penetration Magnum round, in 12 gauge, has a 2-3/4" shell loaded with a 1-3/8 oz alloy slug which it fires at 1650 fps. It offers enhanced barrier penetration capability, making it a must for law enforcement professionals."

Unbelievable penetration. It once shot through one of my wife's biscuits. I chrono'ed them at up to 1665 fps. From a 20" riot gun it's a load, 600 grains. I have shot 3 or 4 boxes of 5, just shooting objects. Keep a box set back in case of a T-Rex attack.

[runfiverun]

you tilted it to the left and the little spring thingy fell out of alignment.
i don't even have a marlin and know you can't do that.
seriously it's the ejector sumthin or another, real common and as you see it jacks them up.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Gibson,

Yep, a whole different animal!

I began my trip with the 45/70 after many years of hunting and reloading and yes, you need to rethink much of what I learned and practiced with the high velocity "J" boolit rifles.

Even though I'm shooting a RUGER #1s, I found that not only didn't I need all that velocity, but my rifle shot better at 1600 - 1700fps then it did at 2300 - 2500fps.

Also a much heavier cast boolit with the decrease in velocity also chipped in to greatly decrease groups size and increase the consistancy of my loads.

How does this 465gr WFN boolit at 1650fps do on game. In a word, Awesome, including 2 elk!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[geargnasher]

You got the bottom metal side screw and bottom screw switched. There's about a thread and a half difference in the length. It matters.

Gear

[Gibson]

Gibson,

Yep, a whole different animal!

I began my trip with the 45/70 after many years of hunting and reloading and yes, you need to rethink much of what I learned and practiced with the high velocity "J" boolit rifles.

Even though I'm shooting a RUGER #1s, I found that not only didn't I need all that velocity, but my rifle shot better at 1600 - 1700fps then it did at 2300 - 2500fps.

Also a much heavier cast boolit with the decrease in velocity also chipped in to greatly decrease groups size and increase the consistancy of my loads.

How does this 465gr WFN boolit at 1650fps do on game. In a word, Awesome, including 2 elk!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

I'm hooked on the darn thing.

The older I get there more I appreciate older things. As Bill said, ~140 years behind it in various incarnations. Some things just work. Hell, I need to get me one of these next :)

http://s4.hubimg.com/u/6023843_f520.jpg

Thanks for the post. I enjoyed reading it!

[Gibson]

You got the bottom metal side screw and bottom screw switched. There's about a thread and a half difference in the length. It matters.

Gear

Grabbed it, switched them, and you are 100% correct.

I guess my mind has been in a fog. . .

May God bless you and keep you from harm ;)

I'm as happy as a sissy in a CC Camp!

[jmort]

I believe you may be the first and last person to say the recoil of a .45/70 red-lined in a lever action is "...not bad at all..."

[runfiverun]

it's in a recoil padded marlin not an 86-src with crescent buttplate.

[Gibson]

it's in a recoil padded marlin not an 86-src with crescent buttplate.

Yeah, as usual, you have it. . . I shoot a handgun with 465 gr. slugs at 1700 fps. I'll take the damn stock off of the marlin and shoot it. Geez. . .

[Gibson]

I believe you may be the first and last person to say the recoil of a .45/70 red-lined in a lever action is "...not bad at all..."

Very COOL avatar, mortimer.

Thanks for the comment. You know me, I enjoy big boomers. Still taking aim on a #1 in .458 Lott. I had one lined up at "Reeds Sporting Goods" for $888 and change, shipped. But it appears I waited too long.

I'll have another sketch up this evening, buddy.

[tek4260]

Hell Gibson, I have seen people complain about the recoil of a 357 so you know they are going to wine about a 45-70. Suppose there are different levels of men that shoot.

Hell, I used to shoot a #3 with 500gr bullets using 458 loading data when I was 12. Horrible recoil for my stature at the time. I would have kept on shooting it, but dad saw that I was flinching and I had to get rid of it.

[Jkallen83]

due to price and thinking that if i can hit with it i didnt need a lever action, i went with the H&R Handi Rifle single shot 45-70. real light. but super accurate, reminds me of a 22lr with accuracy.

45-70 takes some getting used to as it is different with trajectory and it has its own style. 400+gr bullets pack a punch.

as far as recoil, i dont mind recoil at all. my 12g with 3" 00buckshot kicks harder.

its a fun caliber and i cant wait to use it on deer.

[stubert]

I just traded in a 458 Lott #1,in grey laminate. I am not recoil shy, but that #1 was brutal. 500 grain @ 2200. I put on a limbsaver and it was only a little less brutal. After owning it for 2 years I could only shoot it 3 times in a T shirt before flinching started. You might want to shoot one before you make the purchase. Another thing I did not like about it, was the shell would not eject, on the Ruger #1's the case hits the safty lever so you have to turn it sideways to get the shell to fall out.

[blackthorn]

Quote "Yesterday I was down because I broke out the 45-70 and had troubles. . .

It's a beautiful rifle, immaculately cared for. 1975 Marlin (1895, 22" barrel). Of course, I'm doing my usual begin at max and go up."

Really???

[mpmarty]

Best thing I ever did to my Marlin 95 was to mount a low power (1.5 - 6 )scope on it. The weight of the mount and scope softened the recoil impulse so shooting it became a pleasure.

[BruceB]

[Quote: on the Ruger #1's the case hits the safety lever so you have to turn it sideways to get the shell to fall out.[/QUOTE]

It's DEAD EASY to simply shorten the front end of the safety button so that the fired case clears it and ejects cleanly. My .416 Rigby #1 had the same issue, and the modification only took a few minutes. It now functions perfectly, and its appearance is not noticeably different.

[Gibson]

Quote "Yesterday I was down because I broke out the 45-70 and had troubles. . .

It's a beautiful rifle, immaculately cared for. 1975 Marlin (1895, 22" barrel). Of course, I'm doing my usual begin at max and go up."

Really???

Assuming you are asking about beginning near max for tier two loads, then, YES is the answer.

The, "Of course, I'm doing my usual. . .", was to insinuate that I'm slightly embellishing. But only slightly.

Generally speaking, I work with surplus powders so I'm on my own. If not, I review a few manuals and then begin at or near the top.

Why?

[Gibson]

I just traded in a 458 Lott #1,in grey laminate. I am not recoil shy, but that #1 was brutal. 500 grain @ 2200. I put on a limbsaver and it was only a little less brutal. After owning it for 2 years I could only shoot it 3 times in a T shirt before flinching started. You might want to shoot one before you make the purchase. Another thing I did not like about it, was the shell would not eject, on the Ruger #1's the case hits the safty lever so you have to turn it sideways to get the shell to fall out.

Recoil does not bother me. I've shot .460 W'by solids, no worries. Worst recoil. 500 grain slug at 1625 fps from a BFR 500 S&W mag. Brisk.

[runfiverun]

made me giggle a little.
the 45-70 revolvers are not that bad to shoot,now a 458 mag stoked up is a bit different in a handgun.
littlegirl likes shooting my 86 with 435 gr boolits stoked to about 1700.
she may like shooting it more than her stag arms AR.

[Gibson]

made me giggle a little.
the 45-70 revolvers are not that bad to shoot,now a 458 mag stoked up is a bit different in a handgun.
littlegirl likes shooting my 86 with 435 gr boolits stoked to about 1700.
she may like shooting it more than her stag arms AR.

You should give her your Armalite AR they are sorta toys aren't they? Who even runs that outfit now?

;)

Edit

[9.3X62AL]

I had a real fine day at the range earlier this week with my 2 active 45-70s, a Ruger #1 and a Marlin 95. Most of my shooting was done with 405 grain Lee plain-bases at 1300 FPS, and I went through over 100 of those in both rifles without much fuss and bother.

Recoil is a pretty subjective matter. My usual bird gun is an Ithaca 37 in 20 gauge, and it occurred to me that the recoil from the 45-70s ran pretty close to that of the 20 bore--all 3 shoot a 7/8 oz. load at 1250-1300 FPS.

These 1873-level loads shoot GREAT in the #1, and the Marlin seems to enjoy them as well. I have a fairly new mould from Accurate Molds to service the 45-70s, a 400 grainer with gas check shank and Loverin-style lube groove form, and these I'll be pushing a bit harder--to ~1750 FPS or so, to see how they group. I've already done the usual 45-70/#1 venture of trying the 350 grain Hornadys at 2150 FPS. I don't require quite that much entertainment, thank you very much. I keep harking back to the idea that the most-blooded rifle I own is a '73 Winchester built in 1897, in 44-40 caliber, which has about half the 45-70's striking energy given 1873-level loads in both. That 44-40 has harvested many dozens of muleys and blacktails, plus 2 black bears. These 140-year-old calibers were and are pretty darn effective in their 1873 loadings.

[Gibson]

I've already done the usual 45-70/#1 venture of trying the 350 grain Hornadys at 2150 FPS. I don't require quite that much entertainment, thank you very much.

:bigsmyl2: Touche!

46.5 grains of IMR 3031 was mild and shot well, They grouped GOOD but shot LOW. Still learning the little "Williams" peep sight thing. Sure took some chunks outta the backstop.

I'm sorry but it's just a plain fun gun. ;)

Hey AL, it's going to be "Sandy" Forsyth at Beecher Island tonight. Also I'm going to put up an 1877 issue of The Lampasas Dispatch. It contains a story of Wes Hardin being brought through the area in shackles; it has a section on Pink Higgings as well.

[jason f]

I used to love shooting a 45-70 . Then I rechambered it to 45-120 and never looked back

[Gibson]

I used to love shooting a 45-70 . Then I rechambered it to 45-120 and never looked back

I had one of those but then I got a 50-140. I sold the 45-120 and never looked back either.

Odd, ain't it.

[MtGun44]

Al,

As you know - it's not the arrow, it's the Indian. Those '73s are just fine when
used properly.

Bill

[BruceB]

Quotes are from 9.3x62Al........

" I went through over 100 of those in both rifles without much fuss and bother."

-DANG! That's a lot of lead downrange in one session.


" My usual bird gun is an Ithaca 37 in 20 gauge......"

-You've been keeping secrets! In my lock-up is an Ithaca 20-gauge M37, 28" barrel, vent rib, modified choke and Raybar sight. Actually it belongs to our daughter, but I have 'generously' allowed it a bit of house room.



" I keep harking back to the idea that the most-blooded rifle I own is a '73 Winchester built in 1897, in 44-40 caliber. hat 44-40 has harvested many dozens of muleys and blacktails, plus 2 black bears. These 140-year-old calibers were and are pretty darn effective in their 1873 loadings.["


Hmmm...thanks to the Northwest Territories' generous bag limits, I find that my much-loved (and much-used) left-hand M700 in ,30-06, over its first 25 years in my service, has killed well over 150 big-game animals....mostly caribou, but some moose and black bears mixed-in as well. EVERY round was handloaded, incidentally, mostly with Nosler Partitions. Some 100-year-old cartridges aren't doing too badly, either.

Time really does fly...try placing the date-of-purchase on powder and primers. Next thing you know, some of those goodies are old enough to vote!

[runfiverun]

that's not funny.
i have two win white boxes of primers dated 6 months apart from the clinton regime 11.99 and 14.95
25% price increase in that 6 month time frame.
i have some older cci's and remington LR marked .69 and .89 per hundred.
just finished off some winchester domed l/p primers markes staynless that i couldn't fully read the sticker on them, but i'd bet they were either 29 or 39 cents a hundred.
the stuff i buy now the wife remembers all the prices
so i don't have to mark those.