Hoarding powder etc

[Harpman]

any one know if there are limits as to how much powder we can have at our homes ?....I'm seriously thinking about starting stock piles of powder, primers etc, in the food/storm cellar...cement walls underground, should be safe.. you never know , they might succeed one of these days trying to disarm us.

[Harpman]

I doubt they have any thing on it, pretty slow georgia country town I'm in.

was just readin ATF site, doesnt look like private use is regulated at all.

[Sky C.]

Limitation is the thickness of the wallet - usually way too thin!

[monadnock#5]

You should talk to your Fire Chief. Even if there are no local regs., they still need to know about your stash, so in case there is a fire, no one gets hurt. The Fire Dept. would be very unhappy about taking a casualty under such circumstances. The Sheriff wouldn't like it either.

Very importantly, check your homeowners insurance policy. It seems to me that I've heard of a standard clause whereby if you store more than X amount of primers, and Y amount of powder, they don't have to pay off. Regardless of how the fire started, or how much or how little damage is done.

[JohnH]

any one know if there are limits as to how much powder we can have at our homes ?....I'm seriously thinking about starting stock piles of powder, primers etc, in the food/storm cellar...cement walls underground, should be safe.. you never know , they might succeed one of these days trying to disarm us.

And if "they" are ever successful in a disarmament, just what do you expect to do with your hoard? You can't shoot it, instant giveaway. At the point a disarmament could be carried off in these United States, all your neighbors become instant spies, you can trust no one in that kind of environment, your hoard will become useless. Even worse it becomes the evidence you will be put away with.

Far better to spend your time and energies enjoying that powder and primers, and spending your spare time and energy developing relationships with your representatives. They may not ever listen to you, but you can sure be a thorn in their side. You can also join an orgganization in your state that is active at the grass roots level in supporting firearms use and ownership, and spending time introducing the next generation to responsible firearmsuse and ownership.

If we are in danger of losing our rights, it is in the next generation. Look at their current experience, in the news every week there is another report of our youth killing each other with firearms. This irresponsible and self centered behavior is a far greater threat to our freedom than any twenty politicians.

A reaction of fear only worsens the problem. In a worse case scenario; were your house to burn down, it won't be the faulty electrical systme that gets the attention, it will be the 200 pounds of powder and the 100,000 primers that the media will focus on. 50 pounds of powder and 10,000-20,000 primers can prolly be passed off as hobby level without drawing attention. Significantly more than that prolly becomes somewhat suspicious in the eyes of the uninitiated. (I'm sure that some of us have stocks larger than those, all I'm saying is think what it might look like to those on the outside looking in.)

Don't buy into the fear, act with clear thought and in positive directions that bring new shooters into the sport and creates a positive image for the non shooter to balance against the "demon gun owner" image the anti's use against us.

[Harpman]

good responses, thanks gents.
Its not part of the house, its a seperate underground storage for food..garden stuff

[Marc2]

Like John Taffin says, always a good idea to have a 24 month supply around. Not just because of the political climate. What if a major powder or primer manufacturer has to shut down for awhile or the needs of the military increase.

With that said, Ive read enough decisions by judges and seen enough from politicians and their regulatory agencies to realize that, in their minds, the right to keep arms does not necessarily equate to the right to shoot . They can attack us on 100 fronts for 100 reasons (ie, lead contamination in indoor and outdoor ranges, excessive noise, suburban encroachment, environmental pollution, national security, hazardous materials, etc. etc. etc.). Interesting times indeed.


Marc

[Fireball 57]

"We are going to take some things away from you for the public good." Hillery Rodham Clinton June2004

[tom barthel]

If you are worried about the govt disarming us, why ask a govt worker. Don't you think a fire dept would share information with jack booted thugs working for the feds? Most people who have been into reloading for years probably can guess right as far as powder and primer storage. You can probably do a net search for recommended methods and regulations. This may be like Y-2K. There is always a way. Shooters kept going during WW-2 when everything was rationed or shut off from the public. Let your money and your desire determine how much you can get.
I hope everything works out for you.

[Harpman]

Already not depending on food stores is making a big difference for us, eating wild game and our garden food, our goats milk, our chickens eggs, homemade bread everyday,2 good wells on my land for water, wood burning stove, If disaster struck I will be fine, and with a few pounds of powder stashed away, be even betta, no worries:drinks:...the likes of Katrina will happen again, somewhere and who knows what else.
ALSO, the fire department will let my house burn, I'm a couple hundred feet passed the line for service, from the closest place they hook up...They wanted me to buy the connection then give it to them, to get fire service

[layusn1]

I dont understand the whole hoarding component mentality...especially the whole hoarding for a SHTF scenario. Come on now...at least load it all up into completed rounds...then it will be useful. If they are going to disarm us they are going to take away our components so they will take away your stockpile anyway. If you need it for a SHTF scenario its too late to call a time out to load the rounds. I just buy what I need/can afford...shoot that...repeat. I wouldn't mind having a few hundred rounds around for a rainy day but that would be more for if the budget is tight and I cant afford to buy components for a month or two. On second thought I will allow for one stockpile exemption. There are people that buy a butt ton when stuff is on sale so that they don't have to buy that component for the next x months or to take advantage of a really good price...that makes sense to me.

[Harpman]

the thinking is more like, they may say, oh well you can keep what you have, but no more shipping etc...(for powder and stuff).if its all out ban or what ever, that would be different.

[Wayne Smith]

I'd be more concerned about conditions underground and storing chemicals that degrade in humidity there. Think carefully about your storage plans, both because of conditions and for accessability, cause you will be using your stash!

[dakotashooter2]

Fire code permits 5 Lbs of black powder, 20 lbs of smokeless and 10,000 small arms primers for personal consumption BEFORE SPECIAL REGULATIONS kick in. Keep in mind this would be PER BUILDING. So if you have a garge located a reasonable distance away you could have those quantities in it also. Through the utilization of magazines (1" thick wood boxes) and separation defiend by fire and building codes one could likely store more.

I know I've seen the number, 50lbs of smokeless somewhere but can't put my finger on it now. That may be a BATF limitation.

[Harpman]

5 pounds of black...[smilie=1: and here we are all buying 10-25 pounds at a time..I guess the bottom line is, it dont matter, its just a stupid law, I would just be undocumented

[Leftoverdj]

Check the National Fire Code. It does have specs for powder and primer storage and most local codes use it as a default.

I have a considerable stash of powder, not from a doomsday mentality, but because the price keeps going up and I got a deal. I bought what should be a lifetime's supply at c. $6 a pound. Splitting it between between my home and my workshop keeps me within legal limits.

Without the workshop, I'd give some thought to a bunker, perhaps by sinking a heavy duty plastic drum with the clamp-on lid into the ground, and setting a dog house on top.

[jrgift]

Just keep it to your self ,and bring into the workspace only what you need and be legal.

[1Shirt]

JRGIFT has it mostly right, but what is legal in one area may not be in another. This is true of the differences in states, counties, cities, towns, etc. Rural anyplace in the midwest sure will not be the same for laws regarding storage of powder, ammo, primers, etc. as they would be for NYC, or San Francisco. Common sense should apply, but then when you can get a good deal on surplus powder, you have to be nuts not to stock up on same at that price. A lot depends on how much you shoot, how many rounds you reload a year, how many ctgs. you load for and a number of other variables.
1Shirt!:coffee: :coffee:

[ron brooks]

Also don't forget what you load for, what is a lifetime supply for a .45 auto, wouldn't be for 44 mag, or a 300 Win mag, and durned sure for a 12 guage shotgun.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
A 2 yr supply of food , meds., powder,primers, ect. earns you more than a savings account's intrest by beating inflation. That's a good enough reason to stock up.
I was shooting rifle & pistols for about 5 cents a round for the last 30yrs. because I bought a lot just before I got married. I shoot alot.
When I had to restock primers & powder recently I recieved a great shock over the prices.

[klw]

Somewhere in the early 90's I think there was a scare that primers were getting hard to find. Whether that was true or not it certainly drop prices up. I learned my lesson then. So I have almost a lifetime supply of brass, powder, primers and linotype. I've been buying all I could afford every time I could for decades.

Had a neighbor once who didn't like me. She got the fire marshall to come over and inspect my home. Wanted to see if she could cancel my fire insurance. Never occurred to her that we all lived in a townhouse complex so if she got my insurance cancelled that would cancel hers as well.

Now I have the only house in the history of the town to have had such an inspection. HOWEVER the fire marshall was annoyed at having to do this so he told me what I could have in plane sight when he got there. I'm sure he noticed that the rear end of my car was lower than the front. Couldn't have cared less. We mostly talked about bullet casting. And my reloading facility is approved in writing by the firemarshall. Perfectly safe. Well within the prescribed limits. ETC.

Buy all the components you can afford. They will never get cheaper. When I was buying primers I was paying the unheard off high price of just under $10 per thousand. Seemed pretty steep way back when but not today.

[Ohio Rusty]

Out in the barn I sunk into the floor a large coleman cooler, the green metal kind, and that is where I store my black powder. It stays cool and dry. If you read the descriptions of an acceptable powder magazine, it sounds exactly like a small refrigerator !! If you could fine one of the old, small fridge's that didn't work anymore, you could make that into a powder and primer storage place. You could put that in a shed out other out building and the contents would stay dry.
Ohio Rusty

[jdhenry]

I keep all my powder / primers in a old dead refrigerator. I put a masterlock on it to keep the kids and others out :) I just keep powder/primers in the shop and bring it into the gun room as needed... Here if you have any powder / primers in the house the Fire dept. will just stand back an watch your house burn:( As far as the shop goes ..........The fridge is backed up to a side door,,,, So if it catches fire I can just open the side door and pull All my powder/ primers out and not watch it all go BOOM!!!!!!! Then the fire dept. can get back to fighting the fire:)

[Bullshop]

We are buying a place in MT. and hope to spend some of the winter months there in the furure. I just did an inventory on my stash to see about getting some of it shipped there. I priced all powder at $10.00 per pound and primers at $10.00 per 1000. I was surprised when I found it added up to $10,000.00. I dont know how that could have happend. Also discoverd I can not find anyone that will ship it. No place to sell it, cant ship it so if I end up moving guess it will just become expensive fertilizer for who ever buys this place. My only hope is that western Canada becomes part of the USA.
Possibly a shootfest and all are invited and the powder's on me.
BIC/BS

[ANeat]

Bullshop; You cant be the only guy in Alaska that reloads. Im sure you could find someone that would buy it.

Youre not allowed to transport it yourself??

[snowtigger]

Bullshop, I live in Fairbanks. Just let me know what and how much. If I can't afford to buy it, I will pass the word around. Why are you leaving us? You have a nice spread out there.
We've met. I sold you some lead a couple years back.
BTW, I an still using the bulplate lube. Works like a charm. Case lube too.

[snowtigger]

Bullshop, Check with the ferry system. I think there is a way to sail out of Alaska without going through Canada. Maybe out of Valdez. You might be able to put the primers, etc in a trailer and haul it yourself. ... Not sure, just an idea.

[Linstrum]

I talked to one of the surplus powder dealers about a month ago about transporting a 32-pound case of powder I had bought from him awhile back. He said that in Missouri where he is that the limit a private citizen can carry in his car is 100 pounds, properly labeled in original containers and shipping boxes like it comes in via UPS.

I don't know what is to prevent a private citizen from shipping powder via UPS the same way the manufacturers do as long as it is in the same kind of approved shipping containers that it was originally shipped in TO YOU as long as the hazardous material fees are paid.

However, I know that the principal of "the gate swings both ways" does not always apply all the time. Because powder that is shipped by an end user instead of the powder’s original manufacturer may be suspect as to its stability characteristics, UPS and other shippers may not want to mess with it for fear of it conflagrating while in transit. I would not want to be a truck driver if I knew that the stuff I was hauling behind me in the semi-trailer contained 100 pounds of powder that had been sitting in some hot garage for ten years and was now being bounced and jounced about in the hot trailer. That amount of powder has enough energy to launch your dog or even SWMBO’s mother to the moon! On the other hand, modern smokeless powders are marvelously stable with decomposition inhibitors and acid neutralizers that constantly react with the dangerous decomposition products produced by powder as it ages naturally. I have a few VPT Finland cartridges loaded with powder that is now 70 years old and it has not spontaneously ignited despite being kept in a hot garage this summer, although heat damaged bulk powder is hundreds of times more sensitive to spontaneous ignition than individual cartridges because as powder decomposes it generates A LOT of heat. The heat can escape from small cartridges very quickly, but in bulk form like in a gallon jug the mass of powder acts as its own insulation that traps its generated heat, allowing the temperature to build up to a critical point where it will ignite on its own. On the up side of this, I have not heard anything about powder explosions in the news AND YOU'D BETTER BELIEVE IT IF THERE WERE ANY INCIDENT AT ALL INVOLVING PRIVATELY OWNED POWDER EXPLODING SOMEPLACE, THE NEWS PIMPS WOULD BE ON A STORY LIKE THAT LIKE FLIES ON TED KENNEDY’S BRAIN!