Something going on at Graf and sons?????

[abunaitoo]

I have a C&R, so I get dealer pricing.
In December I made an order to Graf. Got the order in December. No problem.
On 1/4/13 I made another order. On 1/8/13 I got a call from Graf.
Lady sounded like she was having a bad day. Kind of felt like she was scolding me.
She told me that because I didn't buy enough last year, I cannot get dealer price anymore. Minimum is $2000 a year.
i told her that it was the first I ever heard of something like that, and that I have been getting dealer for over 10 years. Also that I'm sure I have never bought more than $2000 in almost all of those years.
With a superior tone, she told me that she has been there for over five years, and that has been the policy since she's been there.
I jokes with her that I must have slipped by all those years.
She said "that's not my problem".
Can't buy powder or primers, so all I order are shells, reloading tools, and patches.
I've always has great service from Graf. The times I've had to call, they were very plesent and helpful. Hopefully an isolated incedent.

Is there new owners at Graf and sons?????
Change of policy because of poor economy????

Before I started buying from Graf, I was buying from Midway (before them, Lock stock and barrel), stopped when their shipping prices almost tripled. Shipping to us in Hawaii is a killer.
I asked about them shipping USPS flat rate box. Answer I got was they were not set-up for it. To bad.
I've heard Midway is now shipping USPS flat rate box. Guess their set-up for it now.
Might give them a try again.

[Griz44mag]

I had a small gun shop in Arlington a few years back. I got cut off for the same reason a few years ago.
That has always been their policy as far as I know.
It's their business, and their rules. I have no problem with that. They have to eat too.

[462]

Their dealer and C&R policy is the most nonsensical of any gun-related business I've ever dealt with.

For reasons I won't go into, my first Graf order was also my last. That was about eight years ago, and the lady I was talking to had the same elitist attitude.

[wv109323]

I got set up for the C&R discount rate and when I received the info I noticed they had the minimum $2000 per year purchase. I never ordered anything from them. I use Midsouth.

[tomme boy]

They have told me that 4 or 5 times. I just ignore it and order something. They have always gave the discount. It started about 1.5 years ago, sounds like the same lady I have talked to on a few occasions. I let my licence expire a few months ago. So I can't say how they have been since the crazies have surfaced in the last month.

[NVcurmudgeon]

Same deal here. They dropped the hammer on me about four years ago when my C&R ran out. I knew that I had bought more than they said I had, though they told me in the same friendly Graf's manner. Thinking it over, I calculated that the C&R discount paid slightly more than the shipping costs, so it was about a wash. Also, by then Graf's had put in the "most shipping $8.95" plan and I was getting tired of C&R anyway. Graf's is still my number one supplier, and as long as they continue to be the same friendly people, I'll stick with them. My secret of satisfaction at Graf's or any other supplier is to NEVER order by computer, I ALWAYS talk to the nice ladies on the phone. I'm guessing that there is some bit of bureaucracy that makes C&R a hassle tor them.

[WILCO]

Vote with your wallet. Shop somewhere else.

[RobsTV]

... My secret of satisfaction at Graf's or any other supplier is to NEVER talk to the Rude ladies on the phone, I ALWAYS order by computer..

I fixed the above for you [smilie=1:

[3006guns]

I fixed the above for you [smilie=1:

Good job. Amazing isn't it? You type a helpful reply, adding to the wisdom of the entire thread only to re-read it an hour later and it has a completely different meaning! Proof read......always! :)

[alamogunr]

I've never bought $2000 in a year but have always gotten dealer pricing. I've never been made aware of the policy either. My dealings with Graf have always been more than satisfactory. You do have to watch your orders so that shipping doesn't negate the savings of dealer prices.

Midsouth is a good option except I live in Tennessee. I have to pay the 9.75% sales tax.

I recently made an order to Brownell's. They gave me the dealer prices without my mentioning it.

I wonder what the current rush to buy anything gun related has to do with company's revised policies.

[Jim]

ANY time you have an issue with a sales associate, ask for his/her name and then ask to be transferred to a supervisor. If you get any static about your request for a supervisor, hang up, call back and IMMEDIATELY ask for a supervisor.

It's very understandable to become irritated and think 'the h311 with it' and hang up. If you pursue it, however, you'll usually get an acceptable response from management. That's not guaranteed, but that's usually the case.

Be specific in complaining about the rudeness and condescending attitude and tell the supervisor the associate you're complaining about. Also tell the super how long you've been spending your money there and that you have no intention of tolerating this kind of treatment.

I've done this a few times over the years and found that supervision wants to keep my business and is happy to help me.

Regarding the problem being rectified, if you do nothing, they do nothing.

[Just Duke]

I have a C&R, so I get dealer pricing.
In December I made an order to Graf. Got the order in December. No problem.
On 1/4/13 I made another order. On 1/8/13 I got a call from Graf.
Lady sounded like she was having a bad day. Kind of felt like she was scolding me.
She told me that because I didn't buy enough last year, I cannot get dealer price anymore. Minimum is $2000 a year.
i told her that it was the first I ever heard of something like that, and that I have been getting dealer for over 10 years. Also that I'm sure I have never bought more than $2000 in almost all of those years.
With a superior tone, she told me that she has been there for over five years, and that has been the policy since she's been there.
I jokes with her that I must have slipped by all those years.
She said "that's not my problem".
Can't buy powder or primers, so all I order are shells, reloading tools, and patches.
I've always has great service from Graf. The times I've had to call, they were very plesent and helpful. Hopefully an isolated incedent.

Is there new owners at Graf and sons?????
Change of policy because of poor economy????

Before I started buying from Graf, I was buying from Midway (before them, Lock stock and barrel), stopped when their shipping prices almost tripled. Shipping to us in Hawaii is a killer.
I asked about them shipping USPS flat rate box. Answer I got was they were not set-up for it. To bad.
I've heard Midway is now shipping USPS flat rate box. Guess their set-up for it now.
Might give them a try again.

Yep! They hired a new bean counter and the place went down the toilet. I talked him. Not a nice person. Kinda like a used car salesmen.

[alamogunr]

Yep! They hired a new bean counter and the place went down the toilet. I talked him. Not a nice person. Kinda like a used car salesmen.

Well! So much for Graf's.

[smokemjoe]

I never had the troubles with the 2,000 total, but I called in a order and picked it up on the way though, they held me up one hour on figuring the total up, like 180.00 more then I ordered and the guy doing the paper work wasnt a nice guy. We went out on the dock and refigured it out. My new C&R , I hope will be comming, I am not going to send it to Mid way, you then have to have so much total before they will send it to you or pay extra, and you dont save that much from MW. Mid-way send me a back order once when I said No BO, It cost me more for shipping then what the part cost. Dont deal with G&S no more ether. Joe

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

I figured something happened there the laast time I went to order stuff
and their 4.95 shipping policy had changed. Shipping has become a world wide scam,
they're just gettimg on the turnip truck late

[Rick N Bama]

Midway has dropped me from their C&R discounts.....probably for the same $2000.00 policy? That's OK, I haven't ordered from them in several years. Now it looks like I'll have to find a new supplier for what little I order if Graf's won't appreciate my business.

Rick

[PS Paul]

Hmmm. Although I certainly do understand meeting minimums to qualify for wholesale and for shipping programs, it seems odd to me they would share that in a rude way? I don't get that and have NEVER understood why folks who really don't enjoy engaging customers and the public get into businesses where that is what you MUST do to survive. Like counter commandos who want to ignore you with prejudice. Happens to me often, especially when walking into gun stores in slacks and a button down from work.

So, WHY in the world would someone choose this business of dealing with people when they can't deal with people would be the never-ending question and one that I just don't understand? I suppose we can't ALL be successful (some more than others), so that gives the really GOOD ones out there opportunity to excel and THOSE are the ones with whom I do business. As a consumer AND a business operator.

Like Wilco says, "vote with your wallet" and shop elsewhere......

[nekshot]

I placed a order on monday with grafs and they were very pleasant and helpful. The lady kept telling me they were running about 10-12 days behind in shipping but they were polite considering I did not purchase any thing for about 2 years from them.

[MT Gianni]

Graf's has been the first place I check when i get new stuff since 88. I don't order a lot so never messed with the discount. Mid-South has a little cheaper prices but with using only Fed-Ex it generally sosts me more than Grafs.

[dakotashooter2]

I worked in retail 17 years and can't stand rude sales or customer service people.The owner /manager would chew our *** royally if he found out we were rude to anyone. I still laugh about a comment relating to customer service I heard from a customer about the owner. He said "he may be screwing us but at least he makes us feel good about it".

They are getting paid to help us and answer our questions. I learned that most customers just wanted to vent and once that happened they would deal with the reality of the situation.

[leftiye]

Hmmm. Although I certainly do understand meeting minimums to qualify for wholesale and for shipping programs, it seems odd to me they would share that in a rude way? I don't get that and have NEVER understood why folks who really don't enjoy engaging customers and the public get into businesses where that is what you MUST do to survive. Like counter commandos who want to ignore you with prejudice. Happens to me often, especially when walking into gun stores in slacks and a button down from work.

So, WHY in the world would someone choose this business of dealing with people when they can't deal with people would be the never-ending question and one that I just don't understand? I suppose we can't ALL be successful (some more than others), so that gives the really GOOD ones out there opportunity to excel and THOSE are the ones with whom I do business. As a consumer AND a business operator. Like Wilco says, "vote with your wallet" and shop elsewhere......


Just another variation of the Darwin principle.

[shooter93]

I'm suprised actually. I've been buying from them forever and have always had very nice people on the phone.

[9.3X62AL]

What Shooter93 said. I have yet to have anything but a positive contact with Graf & Sons, though I've never been a part of their dealer discount program. If their shipping minimum has gone to $8.95 from $4.95, I would just buy enough merchandise to make the shipping worth the order amount. It is still cheaper than MidwayUSA shipping, and I suspect the rationale behind Graf's shipping policy change was to discourage smaller orders. Most of my online toy orders run $200-$300, and I don't order every month--probably 5X/year.

[abunaitoo]

I'll probably only get special brass from Graf from now on.
Anyone deal with Natchez?????
I couldn't find an email address to ask about their shipping policy.
Natchez prices seem much lower than Midway.
Mid South dosen't seem to have what I want most of the time.
Midway prices are the highest of them all. They did finally start shipping USPS flat rate box to Hawaii.
Mid South would be my last choice. Being in Hawaii, Fedex is at least three times higher than USPS.
UPS used to ship ground rates to Hawaii. Used to be less than USPS flat rate. Don't think they do anymore.
I order about three to four times a year. Try to make it over $100 befor shipping. If it won't fit in a USPS flat rate box, I take some things out.
Shipping cost is a real problem for us here. Almost everything has to come by air.
But at least we have good weather year round.

[Just Duke]

I'll probably only get special brass from Graf from now on.
Anyone deal with Natchez?????
I couldn't find an email address to ask about their shipping policy.
Natchez prices seem much lower than Midway.
Mid South dosen't seem to have what I want most of the time.
Midway prices are the highest of them all. They did finally start shipping USPS flat rate box to Hawaii.
Mid South would be my last choice. Being in Hawaii, Fedex is at least three times higher than USPS.
UPS used to ship ground rates to Hawaii. Used to be less than USPS flat rate. Don't think they do anymore.
I order about three to four times a year. Try to make it over $100 befor shipping. If it won't fit in a USPS flat rate box, I take some things out.
Shipping cost is a real problem for us here. Almost everything has to come by air.
But at least we have good weather year round.

Natchez/Chattanooga Shooter supply rocks! There website is pretty goofy but their catalog is great. Midsouth is pretty mom and pop outfit also very pleasant and has real good prices.
I use to call JonK and tell him I ordered something from Graf's he would always say "what for! there are better prices out there." I most often learn from those that are my senior. He's a really smart man.

[alamogunr]

Natchez/Chattanooga Shooter supply rocks!

Because of their location(SE corner of TN) and their primary business of wholesaling to dealers, they won't sell to residents of Tennessee, Alabama and Georgia. When I have checked, they do have very good prices. I have been tempted to have a friend in another state receive orders for me. Again, as a resident of Tennessee, I would have to pay the 9.75% sales tax even if they would sell to me. That is quite a bit to overcome when totaling up prices from various dealers.

[Just Duke]

I would have to pay the 9.75% sales tax even if they would sell to me. That is quite a bit to overcome when totaling up prices from various dealers.
I would be more than happy to pay that Tax! TN has really really inexpensive property tax. I have 30K a year going out in OR/WA and everyone wonders why I'm broke all the time. Lets trade! lol

[winelover]

I dealt with Natchez for years. I only use them when they have something that Mid-south doesn't carry. I don't care for their handling($3.99) cost accessed to every order. I haven't found them to be cheaper than Mid-south, either, just the opposite!

Haven't dealt with Graf & Sons for a long time. They never seem to have what I want in stock. Midway is and always was too expensive, on almost everything, if they even have it in stock.

I know many of you like Powder Valley, so I placed a large order just before X-mas. Just got it this week, via, slow boat from China! Just after X-mas, I placed my second order and 13 days later they leave a message saying that half my order can't be filled because of inventory screw up, so what do I want them to do. Good luck, trying to call them back, they don't answer their phone. :holysheep Sent them a e-mail and asked that the owner call me.:takinWiz: Not feeling the love.


Winelover

[Just Duke]

I know many of you like Powder Valley, so I placed a large order just before X-mas. Just got it this week, via, slow boat from China! Just after X-mas, I placed my second order and 13 days later they leave a message saying that half my order can't be filled because of inventory screw up, so what do I want them to do. Good luck, trying to call them back, they don't answer their phone. :holysheep Sent them a e-mail and asked that the owner call me.:takinWiz: Not feeling the love.


Winelover

They were much better when they were Dexter Automotive.

[drklynoon]

That is strange about midsouth not placing orders to those states. I live in Georgia and am pretty sure I have used midsouth before heck we even get a catalog from them. I shop around online and find that it is usually close between midsouth and grafs on price after shipping. I haven't noticed the price hike at grafs on shipping but they may be enough to put midsouth in front. Natchez and sinclair have been good to me but Natchez's site is really difficult for me to take lol. I've also popped around some of the way lesser known places. I don't have a C&R but it is sounding like its becoming more of a hassel than it is worth. Grafs is usually the first place I go online but I do not have any loyalty to them so if the prices don't wash then I'll find somewhere else. Midway has just gotten way over priced in comparison. I use to use them exclusively but their shoddy stock, especially at end of year, and their ridiculous shipping have put them at the bottom of the barrel.

[alamogunr]

I would be more than happy to pay that Tax! TN has really really inexpensive property tax. I have 30K a year going out in OR/WA and everyone wonders why I'm broke all the time. Lets trade! lol

I can't argue about that, but then as a retiree living on savings and SS I would not put myself in a position to have to pay that much property tax. My taxes would be 2-3 times if I lived in Nashville or some other upscale neighborhood. From what I've seen, some would not want me in their neighborhood anyway.

[alamogunr]

That is strange about midsouth not placing orders to those states. I live in Georgia and am pretty sure I have used midsouth before heck we even get a catalog from them. I shop around online and find that it is usually close between midsouth and grafs on price after shipping. I haven't noticed the price hike at grafs on shipping but they may be enough to put midsouth in front. Natchez and sinclair have been good to me but Natchez's site is really difficult for me to take lol. I've also popped around some of the way lesser known places. I don't have a C&R but it is sounding like its becoming more of a hassel than it is worth. Grafs is usually the first place I go online but I do not have any loyalty to them so if the prices don't wash then I'll find somewhere else. Midway has just gotten way over priced in comparison. I use to use them exclusively but their shoddy stock, especially at end of year, and their ridiculous shipping have put them at the bottom of the barrel.

Sorry for the confusion! I was referring to Natchez when I said they don't sell to TN, AL, GA(except wholesale). To my knowledge, MidSouth will sell to anyone regardless of residence.

[Mal Paso]

I do respect the OP but have you seen Graffs stock lately? With shortages of everything I'll bet they have more than their share of Rude Customers and at the same time being Totally Overloaded with work. You might have been right behind the biggest #^&%$@!! that ever lived. They have been good to me and I'll give them a shot when the dust settles.

[abunaitoo]

I've had nothing but good customer service from Graf untill this happened.
Been buying from them ever since I left Midway because of high price and shipping.
So I was a little surprised by the way this lady(?) talked to me.
Maybe she was having a bad day. So whay is that my problem???
She probably shouldn't be talking to customer.
If I had a say, she would not deal with any customers. Maybe even be let go.
Times are hard for everyone ever since Mr. Hankey got into office.
I shop around for the best prices on both merchandise and especially shipping.
The way she put it was like I was trying to cheat her intentionally.
Getting dealer for over 10 years, I haven't looked at the rules since the first year.
Order was for over $100. That's a $100 that Graf missed out on.

[blackthorn]

Maybe a polite letter to the co. pres??

[softpoint]

I just started using Brownells for my reloading supplies. I get dealer cost out of their gunsmithing catalog, don't get much off loading supplies. But they had everything I wanted this time, and since they've kept me on their discount list for the gunsmithing stuff, even though there have been a few years I didn't buy much, I figured I'd return the favor. Midsouth cancelled my dealer pricing because I didn't buy enough from them any more, even though I had bought from them almost exclusively since their first year in business. I still do business with them, but now if they don't have something I want, I just order it from someone else rather than backorder from them.

[softpoint]

I've had nothing but good customer service from Graf untill this happened.
Been buying from them ever since I left Midway because of high price and shipping.
So I was a little surprised by the way this lady(?) talked to me.
Maybe she was having a bad day. So whay is that my problem???
She probably shouldn't be talking to customer.
If I had a say, she would not deal with any customers. Maybe even be let go.
Times are hard for everyone ever since Mr. Hankey got into office.
I shop around for the best prices on both merchandise and especially shipping.
The way she put it was like I was trying to cheat her intentionally.
Getting dealer for over 10 years, I haven't looked at the rules since the first year.
Order was for over $100. That's a $100 that Graf missed out on.
Maybe she was having a bad day. A ticked off woman can VERY hard to do business with sometimes. Bet there are some others here that can vouch for that:mrgreen: Still, she probably shouldn't have been dealing with customers that day....