plan on leaving a c&b revolver loaded for long periods, have ???

[troy_mclure]

my buddys house was recently broken into while he was gone, he has no guns and cannot currently get one(financial).

the only gun he has shot before is my euroarms new army .44,(which he did very well).

he asked to borrow it until he can afford a modern firearm.

he will likely not have much time to shoot(working ot to afford a gun)so the gun may stay loaded for a month or more, and its a very wet humid environment.
so my questions:

1) which would be a better powder to use, goex fff, or pyrodex rs?

2) i plan on loading: powder(30gr), wad, ball, wad, borebutter.

3) best way to seal the primer? wax, borebutter, etc...

4) best lube/oil for the exposed metals of the gun?

5) any other advise?

i plan on going over the long term loading process you guys recommend with him, and sending him with a pack of 100 shots, plus borebutter, oil, wax, cleaning kit, etc...

[Mike Brooks]

You could probably leave it loaded just about forever with real BP. Pyrodex is too corrosive for me.

[Fly]

You could probably leave it loaded just about forever with real BP. Pyrodex is too corrosive for me.

Thats true.Guns have been found that were a 100 years old that still fired as well as the day they were loaded.

Fly

[451 Pete]

One thing I would definitly NOT do is use bore butter. The substance is a water soluable base and will promote rusting in my experiance. Crisco has been used with good results in the past for lubing over the cylinders and I dont believe it cause any issue.

just my thoughts .... Pete

[Hellgate]

Do NOT use a lube wad. Over time the wad will leach oil into the powder and it may not go off or go off weakly. Do as the old timers did: No oil whatsoever in the chambers (bone dry chambers & nipples). 30grs powder, .454ball. Don't bother with over ball grease either. You are not going to fire but 6 shots. Those 6 shots will not bind/foul the action up. You will not be reloading. Be sure you have caps that are as close to 100% reliable as possible. No Pyrodex. BP ignites far more reliably at lower ignition temperatures. Whenever I have had failures to fire after long term loading I suspect the caps have gone bad (Remington#10s are sealed with a disc of paper ). I suspect RWS and CCI caps are more reliable (RWS looks to be laquer sealed, can't tell on the CCIs) and stronger but you need to be sure they will pop 100% of the time and fit snugly without needing two strikes of the hammer to go off. I load my Remington 36 cal at the beginning of deer season and if I don't use it to finish off a deer or elk I shoot it dry at the end of the seasons two months later. I will have carried it holstered off & on for several outings. I've had duds fairly often at the end of the season but none the first 2 weeks. Whenever I get a dud, it is the cap that doesn't fire or is weak (Remingtons). Maybe candle wax dripped onto the capped nipple and onto the seated balls would water proof better. Shooting the gun dry every 2 or 3 weeks might be one way to keep it fresh. However, I am not staking my life on it, just a wounded deer's.

[Sergeant Earthworm]

IMHO, a non-lubricated or very lightly lubricated over powder wad would be a good idea to decrease the possibility of a chain fire (very unlikely anyway, but less risk is better when it comes to something like that). I recommend American Pioneer fffg and use it in my CB revolver, shoots clean and easier clean up than Pyrodex. As long as the caps fit tightly on the nipples it shouldn't be necessary to seal them, not sure how to do that anyway. I use CCI caps and have never had a misfire with them, have had a misfire with RWS caps but that was probably failure to seat the cap fully. Wouldn't hurt to fire it every couple of weeks to prevent any issues as mentioned above. Also good to fire it to maintain proficiency.

One other thing: It is potentially dangerous to leave a loaded chamber under the hammer of many CB revolvers, not sure about yours, but something to think about. Besides, if a guy can't hit the target with five shots he probably can't hit the target with six.

[colonelhogan44]

I think chain fires are somewhat of a wives tale -- if the balls fit well, you shouldn't have a problem. I've been shooting BP revolvers since 2008 and have never once put wads, lube or anything but powder, a .457 or .375 ball and caps into my gun(s).

I left my 1858 remington loaded for 4 years with full cylinders of Pyrodex P, and they all fired when I shot it last September. One of those years was spent in the trunk of my car in humid northeast Texas.

[troy_mclure]

well its loaded up and sealed. cci caps, sealed up with candle wax poured over the caps then scraped off the striking surface.

30gr goex, nearly dry wad(gun shoots much more accurately, and with less smoke with wads), ball, candle wax filling the rest of the cylinder.

ill test shoot tomorrow, and if it works ill go over loading with him.

[Boerrancher]

For years when I was too young to travel off the farm with a regular revolver, I carried my 44 colt navy. It would stay loaded for months at a time. I would make sure the cylinder chambers were good and dry(oil free) and would dump 30grs of Goex FFFg and stomp a ball on top of it. I would then fill the rest of the chamber with Vaseline petro jelly. Yeah I know you are not suppose to use petro based products with the holy black but I never had any issues with it and I wasn't planning on a running gun battle. I would then cap it and keep the hammer resting on the cylinder between the nipples. Months would go by in the humid MO weather with the pistol riding around in my vehicle and I would never have a problem with a failure to fire.

Best wishes,

Joe

[rodwha]

Maybe a once a month (or more) range trip is in need. Of course he'd need a bit of powder, box of RB's and caps, and a bag of wads, but it'll help him to be more certain of them all going off if/when the time comes, plus make him a little more proficient with it.

And being a Remington with the safety notches I'd load all 6, which is what I do with my Old Army.

I've not had mine loaded longer than maybe 6-8 weeks at a time, but I've yet to have a problem in nearly a year that I've had it.

But I use 3F Triple 7, dry wad, .457" RB, and Remington #11's that had to be squeezed for a tight enough fit to keep them all on. And I live in central Texas where it's humid. I'm not sure if T7 is less effected by humidity or not...

[Ifishsum]

I've done it a few times, just to see how well it worked (Goex FFFg and Pyrodex P). Charges are almost always noticeable weaker after a few weeks but they always went bang, and it definitely helps to make sure there's no lube in the cylinder or anywhere else in contact with the powder. I haven't gone as far as to seal caps on with wax though.

[Lee]

Maybe a DRY felt wad or a dry cotton patch wad over the powder? Thinking out loud, maybe a piece of wax paper over the powder/under the boolit? I agree I've never had a chain fire, but I don't wish to find out what one is like. I agree on the non-use of petroleum based "lubes". But I don't have an alternate suggestion right now. Crisco I've heard of before, but the back of my mind says that mineral or vegetable greases will "leak" out eventually?? The dripping candle wax, tho messy, may be the best suggestion to date? After the bad experience with "pyrodex" and corrosion, I intend to stick with BP and scrupulous cleaning afterwards...... My $0.02
Opinions .... please .... :)



BTW when they outlaw our guns, only the BP guns will be left .... my opinion .....

[troy_mclure]

Maybe a DRY felt wad or a dry cotton patch wad over the powder? Thinking out loud, maybe a piece of wax paper over the powder/under the boolit? I agree I've never had a chain fire, but I don't wish to find out what one is like. I agree on the non-use of petroleum based "lubes". But I don't have an alternate suggestion right now. Crisco I've heard of before, but the back of my mind says that mineral or vegetable greases will "leak" out eventually?? The dripping candle wax, tho messy, may be the best suggestion to date? After the bad experience with "pyrodex" and corrosion, I intend to stick with BP and scrupulous cleaning afterwards...... My $0.02
Opinions .... please .... :)



BTW when they outlaw our guns, only the BP guns will be left .... my opinion .....
went and fired it today, all 6 shots fired fine. hit a pumpkin at 20yds with all.
I did have to pry the primers free of the wax around the nipple.

[gandydancer]

use crisco. its better and cheaper.

[waksupi]

For long term storage of a loaded cap and ball, a pinch of shot buffer over the powder works very well.

[Lonegun1894]

I always kept my 1858 Remington replica loaded around the house for just in case things, and then enlisted in 2000. Well, 2005, and the end of my enlistment came around, and I found my 1858 stashed between the mattresses of my bed at my parents house where I had left it. All 6 chambers went off fine with no delay and no loss of power that I could tell. I would always load this revolver when the chambers were dry of any oil, load it with 30grs of Goex FFFg, and a .454 ball. I did not use any wads over the powder or any kind of wax or grease over the ball. I would then wipe the revolver down with a lightly oiled rag with whatever gun oil or 3in1 oil was handy, and make sure the caps were on nice and tight, but with no sealant of any kind so there was nothing to leech into the powder and contaminate it. This same revolver had been on canoe trips with me several times, and got dunked several times when I would tip the canoe doing something I should have known better than to attempt. All except once, it stayed in its holster and I would fire it off on shore, clean it, dry it, load it and oil it, and continue the trip. The one time it didn't stay in the holster, it took me almost half an hour to retrieve it off the bottom of the river, but I finally found it. This revolver NEVER misfired, even after being submerged, so it was no surprize that it fired reliably when it was left loaded for 5 years and a few days. However, I would suggest shooting it at least once a month for the first few months just to make sure that your friend stays in practice with it and builds confidence in it while also testing to make sure it WILL fire when needed.

[Hanshi]

my buddys house was recently broken into while he was gone, he has no guns and cannot currently get one(financial).

the only gun he has shot before is my euroarms new army .44,(which he did very well).

he asked to borrow it until he can afford a modern firearm. (Personally, I don't loan guns without supervision)

he will likely not have much time to shoot(working ot to afford a gun)so the gun may stay loaded for a month or more, and its a very wet humid environment.
so my questions:

1) which would be a better powder to use, goex fff, or pyrodex rs? (Goex)

2) i plan on loading: powder(30gr), wad, ball, wad, borebutter. (lube probably not needed)

3) best way to seal the primer? wax, borebutter, etc... (Crisco, if you must)

4) best lube/oil for the exposed metals of the gun? (standard silicon cloth)

5) any other advise?

i plan on going over the long term loading process you guys recommend with him, and sending him with a pack of 100 shots, plus borebutter, oil, wax, cleaning kit, etc...

Chainfires are very, very rare so grease isn't truly needed. I also question any need to put wax on the caps. Store it with the hammer either on an empty chamber or a pin/notch between chambers.

[shooting on a shoestring]

In my college years had about the same experience...no money. I did have a great Model 19 but left it at my parents house b/c I didn't want it to ..... well I didn't want to risk loosing it. I had a .36 Remington clone Dad bought for me from a Walgreens store in Clovis NM when they were getting out of the black powder buisness. It was my beside arm for a couple of years. Left it loaded for a semester at a time with FFFg and CCI caps. No grease, a card wad over the powder. Worked fine. Still have that revolver and its still in great shape.

[jimb16]

How many of you guys have actually experienced a chain fire? I have, 3 chambers. The front of the chamber was greased with Crisco, so the chainfire ignited from the cap end. It stung, but there was no damage to me or the gun. Chain fires can and sometimes do happen. I still don't "grease" the caps, but I do make sure they fit tightly.

[deerslayer303]

Powder, Ball, and a Cap. Thats the way it was done back then. Alot of folks back in the day would shoot their revolvers dry often to keep them freshly loaded. But here is my method I like to use a slightly oversize ball if I'm going to keep the revolver loaded. This way I KNOW the ball is sealed up good in the chamber. For instance my '58 Sheriff calls for a .454 balls. I'll put .457 balls in it for long term. This seems to get a bigger ring of lead shaved and the ball fits tighter. Same with a .36 if it calls for a .375 ball use a .380. I've noticed sometimes on a .454 ball I will not get a complete ring of lead shaved at loading. Could be due to inconsistencies in the roundness of the sphere. But with a slightly oversize ball you ALWAYS will get the perfect ring of lead shaved. Just my .02

[brassrat]

Many years ago, I had a chain fire, with nothing as a seal. I then had a roman candle effect with Crisco. Now I only use candle wax to seal the chambers and have had no problems firing after years of storage.

[deerslayer303]

Thats a good idea! I'll try that, but I'll use beeswax instead, I think most candles are made from a petroleum based wax. But I guess it doesn't matter if you are only going to fire it 6 times.

[Sergeant Earthworm]

Many years ago, I had a chain fire, with nothing as a seal. I then had a roman candle effect with Crisco. Now I only use candle wax to seal the chambers and have had no problems firing after years of storage.

I've never heard a first hand account of a chain fire. Would you care to offer more details, such as, one cylinder or more? What type and caliber revolver, brand and size of caps, type and weight of powder, injuries or damage? I know that is asking a lot and the memory may have faded, but I'm sure your experience and lessons learned would be of value to many of us.

Personally, I use over powder wads lightly lubed with bore butter as chain fire prevention in my .44 caliber 1858 Remington. Some say the wad is unnecessary. I say it is cheap insurance and helps prevent leading of the bore at no extra charge.

[waksupi]

One of the first black powder guns I owned was a Colt Walker copy. I didn't know a thing about them. Had a chain fire of four cylinders. Exciting!

[Sergeant Earthworm]

One of the first black powder guns I owned was a Colt Walker copy. I didn't know a thing about them. Had a chain fire of four cylinders. Exciting!

What was the cause? Any injury to you or bystanders? Any damage to the gun? The idea of shooting four balls simultaneously does sound exciting...

[troy_mclure]

thanks for the advise so far.

i dont mind lending the gun for several reasons, the least of which is the gun cost less than $100.

the euroarms cylinders are tapered so there is no "lead ring" to indicate a good seal, so i need something to keep moisture out.

a good seal of the cylinders is important because the weather here is wacky. with heater on during the night and ac during the day. even modern firearms get rusted easly, and i have found condensation on guns during a power outage.

[waksupi]

What was the cause? Any injury to you or bystanders? Any damage to the gun? The idea of shooting four balls simultaneously does sound exciting...

The cause was, I didn't know what the hell I was doing, and hadn't greased the cylinders. No injury at all to myself or the pistol. There were no bystanders, and considering the balls pretty much had to go more or less forward, wouldn't have proved a hazard from lead flying in odd directions.

[Hellgate]

Sgt. Earthworm,
Here's an article on capping & is omewhat applicable to chainfires where they create an out of battery discharge and test the flight of the ball in a C&B.
http://www.brimstonepistoleros.com/articles/capping.html

[MissionaryFarmer]

I have often kept a BP revolver for home defense or concealed carry. I've never had a problem with misfires. Make certain the pistol is very dry before loading. I use my wife's hair dryer to be absolutely certain it is dry before loading. Load with FFFG Goex or Triple 7, Remington caps and put crisco over the bullets. I do not use lubricated wads or any lube on the bullet. This has worked well with a 1858 replica, .36 Colt replica and the NAA Super Companion. In the NAA I prefer 777 otherwise I use FFFG Goex.

I have also kept a 12 ga SxS percussion gun loaded for extended periods of time with no problems.

I have never been a fan of Pyrodex.

[Sergeant Earthworm]

Sgt. Earthworm,
Here's an article on capping & is omewhat applicable to chainfires where they create an out of battery discharge and test the flight of the ball in a C&B.
http://www.brimstonepistoleros.com/articles/capping.html

Thanks for the link. I am curious as to whether there is anything common to chain fire incidents. Probably not a lot of data about it because it's pretty rare. I never grease the cylinders and have never had a chain fire, just want to make sure I'm not setting myself up for one. Plenty of excitement in my life, don't need any more.

[Hellgate]

Chain firing is argued to death on the BP C&B boards. My personal opinion is that most occur from the front from poor fitting balls (shaved out of round, casting defects, too small diameter, etc) or defects/irregularities in the chambers or chamber mouths. I find it hard to believe that the flame can get under a cap unless it is poorly fitted too. REAL POORLY fitted. I suspect some chainfires occur in brass frames after the recoil shield gets pounded in and dented enough to let the nipples contact the recoil shield when fired.

[birddog21]

wow great advice never left mine loaded for fear of miss fires

[lrdg]

How many of you guys have actually experienced a chain fire? I have, 3 chambers. The front of the chamber was greased with Crisco, so the chainfire ignited from the cap end. It stung, but there was no damage to me or the gun. Chain fires can and sometimes do happen. I still don't "grease" the caps, but I do make sure they fit tightly.


As a youngster (1960s) I used to shoot my father's original Remington. I have had chain fires several times. Never did understand why it never fired the chamber in the 6 o'clock position. I am glad it didn't. One of these days that gun is going to be mine along with the pair my grandfather had.