I'm trying to find a really light load for .38 special for a female shooter

[possom813]

A friend's wife wants to learn to shoot, and she has a .38 that she wants to shoot.

The problem is, he can't find a light factory round for .38, the best he's found is 12? grain fmj's. She says that hurts her hand.

I'd like to find an extremely light load for a 158gr RF boolit.

I load 3.2grs of this for my blackhawk, a starting load according to my books and the Hodgdon site, but still may be a bit much for her. I just don't know how low I can actually, safely, go.


Any ideas?

[Beagle333]

3.2 gr of what? :-?

[runfiverun]

the faster powders offer lower amounts and velocity's.
my mother in law is almost 70 now.
i load 125gr rnfps for her in 38 special cases to @ 650 fps.
the only thing any lower will be 32, 25 acp, the 22 lr, or maybe a pellet gun.

[emorris]

148 grain wad cutter with 2.5 to 2.8 grains of bullseye is my light load. One good thing about a revolver is that you dont have to worry about getting the action to cycle. For plinking ammo you can load them up just enough to keep the bullet from tumbling at the distance you are shooting. Just be careful not to stick one in the barrel.

[possom813]

3.2 gr of what? :-?

My mistake... 3.2grs of Titegroup

I also have Unique, Green Dot, IMR & H 4895, and Trail Boss

[Mlcompound]

The trick is a light bullet. I just worked up a nice 105 swc with 3.2g bullseye. My wife's 637 liked this best. My model 60 3 in liked 4.5 of hp38 best (still pretty light - my 11 yr old niece liked it real well).

[williamwaco]

148 grain wad cutter with 2.5 to 2.8 grains of bullseye is my light load. One good thing about a revolver is that you dont have to worry about getting the action to cycle. For plinking ammo you can load them up just enough to keep the bullet from tumbling at the distance you are shooting. Just be careful not to stick one in the barrel.

DITTO:

I prefer 2.7 grains Bulls Eye.

If you don't like this load use the same powder charge with a lighter bullet say 105 to 125 grains.

[John Allen]

Go with a full wadcutter and a light load of bullseye. It is in the reloading books.

[Larry Gibson]

+ another on the previously mentioned 2.7 gr Bullseye with a WC. Or the 105 Lee cast over the mentioned 3.2 gr Bullseye. Also make sure the grips fit her hand and she is using a proper grip with the web of the hand high on the backstrap. Most often hurtful recoil is a function of ill fitting grips and/or a poor grip, particularly if the grip is too large.

Larry Gibson

[hanover67]

My hand hurt when shooting some loads in a couple of my guns. I got a golf glove and cut off the end of the trigger finger part and no more pain.

[MtGun44]

I will also suggest the 105 Lee SWC over 2.5-3.0 gr of TiteGroup or Bullseye.

BETTER GRIPS will help a lot, too. Add Pachmayer rubber Gripper grips.

Or buy a S&W 317 or Ruger LCR in .22 LR caliber - start with .22 LR and MAYBE
move up to .38 later, maybe not. A face full of 8 .22 LRs will definitely change
the subject.

Bill

[C.F.Plinker]

The "standard load" for bulleye shooters is around 2.7 grains of Bullseye or 3 grains of 231/HP38 behind either a 148 gr wadcutter or a 158 gr semi-wadcutter. These have been used by generations of shooters even though they are below the Hodgdon starting loads.

[GP100man]

My bunny poot load is 2gr. of reddot under a 360 RB in a 357 case ,seated flush with a bit of lube smeared around the empty space . It`s very quite & practically no recoil .

It generates just enuff pressure to seat the case over the primer so the cyl won`t hang up. Not alot of bearing surface so it won`t stik in the bore & while the lube helps it does`nt stop leading completely. But it`s very lite leading.

[possom813]

Alright, just got more info

It's coming out of a .38 Charter Arms snub-nose

I don't have bullseye powder, I don't believe I've ever found it in stock at my local shops.


The 2 boolits I have available to me are 158gr RF, and 158 gc swc

[John J]

Im loading 2.0 vv310 or 2.0 BE with a lyman 115swc and its realy light shooting...just picked up a lyman 357242 in 90g and am going to try that for her next.

[Tazman1602]

Try some Hornady 125 grain bullets or Lee makes a 125 grain mold too -- very nice bullet. Use a minimum (other have suggested some....) load of either bullseye or Unique and you can't go wrong. My wife shoots .38 extensively and I started her out with small loads like that, now she shoots my .357 with no problems.

Art

[whisler]

105 gr Lee SWC over 3.3gr. of Red Dot in an LCR works for my wife.

[uscra112]

Played with your dilemma in Quickload.

Postulating 158 grain plain lead SWC, seated to the crimp groove, no deeper.
Postulating about 8,000 psi, which is typical target/wadcutter territory.

2.4 grains Green Dot is about equal to 2.7 of Bullseye. Watch out you don't double charge !
3.0 of Unique, but it'll be a dirty load.
2.3 of Titegroup would be about equal to the Green Dot load.

For comparison, your 3.2 of Titegroup is around 16,000 psi in the Quickload model.

Did I mention to watch out for double charges of any of those suggestions?

With a jacketed bullet, I'd watch every shot to make sure the bullet is exiting. A j-wart really isn't a good choice for these cat-sneeze loads.

I've shot a few hundred 158 cast SWC's from my Colt O.M. using 2.5 of Bullseye. No problems. It likes that load, but it likes HBWC 145 grain with 2.6 grains better.

Sellier&Bellot does sell a full wadcutter target load that's very mild, but it shoots very dirty.

[kweidner]

For mouse loads i like the Trail boss. less chance of a double charge. I use it for firelapping too. I've had it way down there. Just exit bbl slow and all is well. It also seems quiet. I have a load for all my magnums in case I want to shoot in my yard. Rockin fullhouse 110 or 2400 in my side yard shakes the whole house it seems and my dog almost goes into cardiac arrest.

[rintinglen]

There are a number of providers that make 125 grain RNFP boolits for the Cowboy crowd. Any of these over 2.5 grains -3.0 grains of Red Dot or
Bullseye, or 3.2 grains of HP 38/WW 231 makes for a low recoiling load. My Daughters learned to shoot a Model 36 S&W with a 75 grain 358-101 lyman boolit over 2.0 grains of bullseye. I cast and loaded many, many hundreds of these.

I realize you may prefer to use what you have, but no powder has been as thoroughly tested in light load applications as Bullseye. People have been using it for over a hundred years for everything from 25 ACP loads up to 30-06 cats-sneeze loads.

[gtgeorge]

I too am a trail boss fan for light loads. In that snub nose 2.4grs will have you down under 500fps with very light recoil using 158gr lead bullet.

[cbrick]

Also make sure the grips fit her hand and she is using a proper grip with the web of the hand high on the back strap. Most often hurtful recoil is a function of ill fitting grips and/or a poor grip, particularly if the grip is too large. Larry Gibson

Exactly!

If those lite 38 loads hurt her hands she either has an arthritis problem and/or has never been taught correct shooting. Make sure her hands properly fit the grips, I'll add to Larry's comment to say that too small grips for her hands will add to felt recoil. Plus she does not need a death grip on the gun, the tighter she squeezes the grips the more of the recoil she will feel. Get a Pachmeyer grip and teach her proper grip/shooting.

Rick

[Willbird]

The lee 105 works great with a light load of clays or titegroup. You can find published mouse fart loads sometimes in the "cowboy" section of loading data. The Hodgon basic manual download has the cowboy action stuff in it, and they show a 90 grain lead bullet at 705 fps in 38 special using clays or titegroup. Those are very very mild.

[Lizard333]

Shooting the snub nose 38 seems like it is the first problem. Get her shooting something with some more weight and she will enjoy it a LOT more. My wife carries a Ruger LCR in 38 plus p, but even shooting my light 38 wad cutters in it makes even my hands hurt.

Get a heavier pistol, and enjoy shooting it. There just isn't enough weight. You don't see many people, let alone women, enjoying shooting a snub nose. Not to be offensive to the ladies.

[Jon]

I found that the light bullets (105gr) shot very low with 3gr of bullseye. Has anyone else seen this issue?

[fouronesix]

Worked up a load for the same purpose. Light load of Trailboss under 130 gr plain base does very well in a small Colt revolver in 38 SPL.

CAUTION- when working down loads to very light levels, especially in revolvers, make sure the load is heavy enough to get the bullet out of the barrel and DON'T use gas checked bullets!

[Jkallen83]

i loaded my wife some 38spl....125gr bullet with 4gr of Unique. she loved it. she eventually got to where she wanted more power but in a revolver for fun, u can pretty much load as light as u want. as long as u got enough power to get the bullet out the barrel and to ur target.

[AviatorTroy]

Not to be a smart elick, but right off Alliant's website is this...

58098

I load for my wife's Charter Arms .38 as well and her practice load with a 158gr lead SWC is 3gr of Bullseye or 3.5 gr of Unique which is a little below the published starting loads but I've not had a problem with it.

The lighter bullets would create even less recoil, but I tend to believe that you should practice like you shoot so my practice loads, while considerably lower than factory SD loads, is still useful to practice recovering the sight picture from recoil and all that, blah blah. Are you able to start your new shooter out with a day of shooting a .22, and then move into the .38?

[CAVEMTNMAN]

I load 3.4 grs. of 231 Winc. powder for my.357 Ruger Blackhawk with, 148 hbwc and 158 swc. Very light recoil and very accurate.

[Petrol & Powder]

Never had a problem with a WC sticking in the barrel of a snub-nosed revolver as long as the loads are within the published limits. Even at the low end of the data, that bullet will always make it out of a 2" barrel. I agree with Lizard333 that a bigger gun is likely a better solution. I've never been a fan of light bullets in small, fixed sight revolvers. A little extra weight, a little extra sight radius and a little bigger grip will help far more than finding some ultra light bullet/powder combo. There seems to be some desire to equip women with very small guns. Very small guns can be somewhat difficult to shoot. If you want to use a snub-nose i would suggest 148 WC, some powder charge at (but not below) the low end of the data and whatever grips fit her the best.
I always want to see people enjoy shooting! A comfortable gun that one can hit your target with goes a long way to making that happen. Good Luck!

[Cadillo]

I gave my wife, (100lbs. soaking wet), a 3" Model 60 S&W with adjustable rear and pinned blued front. She shoots it with 3.6 grains of WW 231 under a 150 grain Lyman 358477. She loves it and shoots it surprisingly well.

[reloader28]

I tried some Ranch Dog 100gr FN with around 3-4gr Bullseye, Clays and Unique.
Shot decent with all and NO kick. This was 38spl in a 357.

I like 4gr Bullseye with Lee 358 158 RF.

[dlamp]

i load 2.7gr trailboss with a cast 158gr swc its seem to be a pretty mild load

[wrangler5]

Another vote for Trail Boss powder. (There's a special plus for this powder - it says on the label "developed exclusively for lead bullets.") My "cowboy" loads are 158g lead round nose over 3.2g of Trail Boss. I get ~585fps from a 2" S&W. That's as low as any other "light" load I've worked up using other powders and 158g lead bullets, but obviously not as low as the ones gtgeorge mentioned.

To expand on kweidner's comment, the benefit of Trail Boss is that you're filling up about 3/4 of the available volume with this load. (The max 38 Special load for 158g bullets is 4.2g, and that pretty much takes all the available space.) You CAN NOT overload a 38 Special case with this powder unless you compress it, which they warn against explicitly, but at the velocities you're seeking that isn't going to be a problem. I find this enormously comforting, even when using a progressive press which pretty much precludes a double charge.

I'd also endorse the suggestions to get a bigger gun to learn on and practice with. Even my relatively light cowboy loads are not a lot of fun in my snubbies, especially the aluminum frame models. If a larger gun is simply not in the cards, then look for the largest rubber grips that cover and cushion the backstrap. My most comfortable grip for snubbies is a Pachmayr Decelerator. They don't seem to make that for Charter revolvers, but the Gripper model is the same shape with slightly less cushy rubber. Their Compac grip is also quite comfortable, covers the backstrap, has room for all fingers, and is still small enough to be fairly easily concealed, if that's an issue.

Jon, lighter bullets (and faster bullets) will shoot lower than heavier/slower bullets in virtually all handguns when fired from the hand or from a rest that allows the gun to recoil. The reason is that the light/fast bullet gets out of the barrel sooner than the heavy/slow one, and so the barrel hasn't moved as far "up" when the bullet leaves. (Lay a straightedge along the top of your sights and you'll see that the barrel starts off pointing below the line of sight - it is assumed that, before the bullet leaves the barrel, the barrel will rise TO the line of sight plus a bit to account for bullet drop to the target.)

Most 38 Special revolver sights seem to be set up assuming 158g bullets - my fixed sight 38s all hit pretty close to point of aim when I'm shooting "normal" loads with 158g bullets. If you have a fixed sight gun, must shoot lighter bullets and must hit point of aim (i.e., in a defensive shooting situation you will NOT have time or presence of mind to remember to hold high for your lightweight bullets) then a laser grip is the easiest way to add an "adjustable sight" to your gun. It is also a priceless training tool for letting you see what happens to your barrel when you squeeze off a "round" in dry fire practice. And since you can see what's happening, you can work on improving it, and can see how you're doing, "shot" by "shot."

[jdgabbard]

I will also suggest the 105 Lee SWC over 2.5-3.0 gr of TiteGroup or Bullseye.

BETTER GRIPS will help a lot, too. Add Pachmayer rubber Gripper grips.

Or buy a S&W 317 or Ruger LCR in .22 LR caliber - start with .22 LR and MAYBE
move up to .38 later, maybe not. A face full of 8 .22 LRs will definitely change
the subject.

Bill

This is what I was thinking about when I read the post. These things are literally sneeze loads.

[kpep]

I've shot PPC for more years then I'd like to say and 2.2 of WST is the the load for inside shooting (50 ft.) and 2.8 of WST for outside (50 yd.). 148 gn. HBWC is is the bullet most of us in PPC use. The 2.8 load should work well for the 158 gn. bullet.

[Bonz]

I load 125gr .38 special with 4.0gr Bullseye for my wife and load 125gr .38 special with 4.5gr Bullseye for myself for target shooting

My wife likes the 4.0gr Bullseye load but nothing less than that

[MtGun44]

Using heavy boolits (158 gr) makes the recoil higher for no benefit. Get some .360 round balls
or 105 Lee SWCs to cut the recoil dramatically.

Bill

[HarryT]

Speer T38 plastic bullets http://www.speer-bullets.com/products/components/plastic_training_bullets.aspx

Or you could try wax bullets.

[ph4570]

+1 on Trail Boss for light loads.

[lwknight]

Perceived recoil has a LOT to do with grips. I have a Model 10 SW that hurt my hands with medium loads till I put oversize competition grips on it. I can load it to full .357mag power comfortably now.

As for bunny poot loads , I beat that with rat thumper loads. I used 2.0 gr. bullseye and 100 gr wadcutters.
They are 400 fps and no more recoil than a 22lr. They won't make a hole in the barn if you miss the rat and still enough pressure to seat the primer.

[cpileri]

matts bullets makes a 100gr and even a 75gr wadcutter:
http://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=65
a couple grains of trail boss and that should be a real light load.
C-

[mongoosesnipe]

I like titegroup for low volume loads it is very consistent and burns a lot cleaner than bullseye and trail boss would also be a very good option

[429421Cowboy]

Only thing i can see that would be lighter than a 125 RB with BE is a roundball with a light charge of BE. I believe that .360 RB's are pretty cheap and easy to find if you don't have a mold, also i believe it is OO Buckshot that is .360 and many have found makes a great light/quiet load. Beagle wrote a great article about RB's in handguns, i use his methods and loads for .44 RB loads that make for a handy .22 stand-in out of my Super Blackhawk.

[jonk]

I have downloaded the 38 to as light as 1 gr of bullseye with a 125 gr round nose. They all exited the barrel and hit the target, though accuracy was nothing great.

[Pitchnit]

My wife was extremely recoil sensitive. I had to start her with wax bullets just using a primer and no powder. Then I went to 1.8 grns Bullseye with a 158 wadcutter cause that's all I had. She now is shooting the selliot & belloit reduced load. With a really light load I had her close to the target and told her that if she didn't se a hole when she shot to not shoot again so I could make sure a bullet didn't stick in the barrel. Regards-Pitchnit