Which LubriSizer do I buy?

[MO45]

I have been Casting for about 5 years and Lurking this site for about a year. In the past I have always used Lee bullet molds, Lee sizing die, and tumble lube. I have had ok results I have been pleased with. But I have decided I want to step up my game. As a single Dad, I have to be conscious of both money and production (the boys love to shoot as much as I do). I think I want to purchase a Saeco 4 cavity mould 069. These bullets will be shot out of my 1911 Kimber Gold MatchII. I think this is a good choice. Not exactly cheap but I am trying to develop more quality in my casting. My problem right now is trying to figure out what Lubrisizer I want. I have read I want a STAR. But that probably isnt going to happen. So that means RCBS, Lyman, or SAECO. I really like Redding so I thought Saeco. But being able to use RCBS and Lyman sizing die in the RCBS and Lyman products seems like that would be the way to go. The trouble is none of these products get outstanding reviews. I am not sure I understand how the lube heaters work but it seems like a good idea. Also I plan on making by own lube. How does that work in these systems? Sorry if these questions seem a little disjointed. I just want to make the right choice the first time. I have too many hobbies and not enough time and money for all off them.

[1Shirt]

I have both Lyman and RCBS, and like them both for the interchangeability of dies. If you watch e-bay, and or maybe Craigs list, you can once in awhile find a good deal.
1shirt!

[Shiloh]

I have an old Lyman 450. The current updated model is the 4500. It works fabulously for me. Lyman and RCBS dies will fit it. Saeco makes a good unit, but you will need Seaco dies only at a lot more money.

I have a Lyman 45 that I am going to try to get running this year.

Shiloh

[Cherokee]

I have a Lyman 45, 450 and 4500, plus the Star. The Lyman sizer/luber's have all given good performance, not a problem and easy to use, just not as fast as the Star. I got along fine starting with the used 45 back in 1965, then added the 450 and later the 4500 with a heater after I got the Star. I use Lars CR lube so don't know about how home-made stuff works, the CR works great.

[runfiverun]

you can get a basic star for about the same price as the lyman.
and add to it as you go along.
the more you add the faster it goes.
heaters are basically for harder lubes which store better long term and take jostling around better.

[MO45]

Thank you all! I am definetly going to get either RCBS Lubeamatic or Lyman 4500. There is a Lyman heater/sizer combo that I will probably get. The reviews on Midway were less than stellar. I am excited to get started on this project. Next is to try and figure out how to reload black powder cartridges for the 45-70 Sharps clone that followed me home. That will have to wait for another pay day!

[rexherring]

If you make your own lube you can just melt and pour it into the top, you don't need hollow sticks. I do this when I combine lubes to get a certain mix. I've had the RCBS for well over 25 years and still works good.

[theperfessor]

I know Saeco makes high quality molds, but I've got a Lee 6 cavity that drops a 200 gr SWC that's awfully close to the H&G 68 and at least at my skill level (average to mediocre to be honest) it shoots and functions just as good. 50% more cavities and at a lot lower price to boot. Just offering a thought that might save you a few bucks getting going.

I use an old 450 that I overhauled a while back. If I were to buy another in-out (as opposed to push-through like a Star) sizer it would be the RCBS unit. The die retention nut has a coarser thread that is less likely to be cross threaded than the Lyman 450 & 4500, at least with the tools that typically come with them. Otherwise there isn't much difference between them.

[Willbird]

The saeco 4 cavity mold and handles is very heavy......very very heavy......I'd try a lee 6 cavity first.

[mpmarty]

I had a Star and couldn't get rid of it fast enough. It was the most frustrating tool I've ever tried to use. I now have not one, not two, but three Lyman #45 lube/sizers and they work great. Save a buck and mount your sizer on a metal plate and borrow or steal an iron from SWMBO and use the iron set on low heat to warm up the tool.

[MT Chambers]

MP Marty.....I can't believe that someone doesn't like the Star!!!! It may take some patience at first but once you get it going nothing is close, fast, smoooth, no alignment problems...nothing frustrating at all!! If I were the O.P. i would go ahead with the Saeco mold, might as well learn on the best! Learning with the best also applies to the Star, and I would look for a used one if a new one was too much...barring that, an RCBS is next best bet as they are more robust then the Lyman. You will have to deal with alignment issues eventually if you're casting for accuracy!

[Mk42gunner]

I have three sizers, none of which I bought new. The one that I have had the longest is an RCBS lubamatic that I gave somewhere around 1/3-1/2 retail for ten years or so ago from e-bay. I also have two Lyman 450's, one (gray and needing the plunger assembly) I gave $20.00 for at a gunshow in Springfield last spring; the other one is one of the orange ones with the Lyman heater attached to its base, I gave $7.50 for it at an auction south of Clinton in November.

I like the RCBS a bit better, it just seems more robust.

If you don't get into a big hurry you can find perfectly servicable used units for a lot less money than the new price.

In my opinioin, a heater isn't necessary; unless you are planning to use one of the hard lubes.

Robert

[geargnasher]

I prefer Lyman 45s myself, die changes are a snap although the RCBS dies don't fit them like they'll fit in a Lyman 450 or 4500. The 45s also are less wobbly than the later versions due to the dual guide rods and head assembly that also guides off the steel lube cylinder. Not as much leverage though, and with short .45 boolits the wobbly compound linkages don't make much difference. Anything beats pan lubing. For your purposes I'd look for a good, used, Lyman 450 for about 75-100 bucks, or just get a new one. Skip the heater, if you by some chance you choose a hard lube and should happen to need one you can rig a $5 clamp-on spot lamp with a 100-watt incandescent bulb and be done with it.

Gear

[MtGun44]

+1 on Prof's comments. I bought his EXCELLENT special alignment tool to keep from stripping
the nut on my Lyman, and the RCBS is coarse enough still be a bit of a PITA, but
less fear of stripping. Lyman's linkage is a bit more fragile, too. Other than that,
not a lot of differences between LAM 1 and Lym 450/4500. LAM 2 has the non-rachet
lube feed, not sure if I'd like that.

Sad comment that gear's "100 watt incandescent lamp" is no longer available, since
the econNazis decided that breathing mercury fumes, getting UV irradiation and
poor light with short bulb life was REQUIRED so they could pretend to save the
world.

Bill

[41 mag fan]

The thing about a star, is it's the Rolls Royce of lubesizers. It holds it's value, and they're not cheap new, and used ones unless someones just really wanting to get rid of it, or it's a piece of junk, will still cost more than a LAM II or Lyman will.

If casting for the 45, go with a lube like Bens Red, you wont need a heater for it at all.

[avogunner]

I have two sizers; a Lyman 450 that I bought second hand in the late 80's and a more recently acquired Lyman 45. Both have given, and continue to give, faithful service without a bit of trouble. The only peculiarity is, as mentioned, to ensure correct alignment of the size die nut on 450 - you don't want to strip that. I have a heater on the 450 for hard lubes and I use the 45 for the soft NRA 50/50 type lubes I like for low velocity pistol. If budget is an issue (and when isn't it?), I would recommend what others here have touched on....look for used. Auction sites, estate sales, gun clubs, this sites Swappin' and Sellin' forum, etc. The Lyman sizers or an RCBS LAM can be found at reasonable prices.
Good Luck and Semper Fi!

[tonyjones]

For what a 4 cavity SAECO mould will cost do yourself a favor and check out accuratemolds.com.

Regards,

Tony

[MT Gianni]

I have an RCBS and a 450. I use a 75 watt trouble light as a heater in the winter. My lubes will flow without it but it makes things easier. RCBS warranty is better than Lymans, hopefully you will need neither.

[gefiltephish]

I have a Lyman 450 and a Star. I suppose my well used 450 could just be one bad example, but it's a poorly made piece of junk. If I had the bucks to spare, I'd get a 2nd Star.

Just as a crude example: Many people have purchased a loadmaster press because it's comparatively cheap. In my completely unscientific evaluation of sooo many forum posts, and extremely biased opinion (yes I have one), 90% of those people regret their purchase (at least mine was free to me).

I'm no stranger to a tight budget, but my suggestion is to do yourself a huge favor and seriously fight the urge to compromise, save until you can afford to get the one you truly want.

[Echo]

I have 2 Lachmiller's (predecessor to the RCBS LAM) and a Star, and also tumble lube low-intensity cartridge boolits. I like the Lachmiller's better than the Lyman's I had and sold - seemed to be more robust. One set up w/heater for hard lubes, the other not. My recommendation - find a cheap used Lachmiller/RCBS (or Lyman), use it for a while, and keep your eyes open for a Star. You can always sell the in-n-out on EBay for about what you gave for it.

[MtGun44]

Stars are great - I have two, BUT they are best for high quantities of the same or very
similar designs, NOT handy for swapping dramatically different designs unless you
are changing dies, too. Changing from one lube groove to 3 takes a good bit of
patience, drilling out lead shot, adjusting the depth, etc.

IMO, if someone is loading several different designs - especially with different number
of lube grooves in the same diam, AND relatively low boolit count, they are a bad
fit for the high volume Star design. When I am developing a load with a new boolit
design or loading under 200 of a design different than what one of the Stars is set
up for, I do it in the Lyman or RCBS. Once I have it sorted out and want to make
500 or 1000 of the same boolit - set up the Star and ROLL!

IMO Stars are not for everyone, especially newbies unless they are planning on
setting up to support an IPSC habit with one design boolit in large quantities.

Bill

[MikeS]

Before I would buy a Lyman/RCBS/SAECO in/out sizer I would either save up for a Star, or simply pan lube them, then run them thru a Lee sizing die. The in/out sizers take way too long, pan lubing then running thru the Lee sizing die is much quicker than using an in/out sizer. If you're shooting primarily pistol boolits with a single lube groove, then nothing can beat a Star sizer. Another reason to wait, and go with a Star is because if you get an in/out sizer then you'll need to get top punches for each of the boolit styles you're casting, and soon you've got so much of an investment in top punches that it makes it that much harder to switch to a Star. If you just wait and get a Star, as it sizes nose first, you need one punch per caliber (not boolit style) which makes things much simpler.

[2ridgebacks]

Nobody has mentioned ballistic-cast.? Is that because they don't compare to the star or nobody that has one is chiming in, or there aren't that many out there?

[eck0313]

I have a Star and a SAECO that was my fathers (late 50's vintage). I actually use my SAECO more than the Star. The ONLY value of the Star is that if you are going to do A LOT of sizing of the same (or a couple of) bullet configuration(s), you can maintain a fairly high rate of production. They are much more difficult to set up between, say a 200 gr .30 cast bullet, and a 155 gr. .45 bullet. With my SAECO, I can size .45 230 gr. RN, 200 gr. H&G 68s, and 155 gr. SWC with the same die/punch setting. I've been unable to do the same with the Star.

Additionally, if you are working with a collection of moulds that have differing amounts of grease grooves, (some bullets have one grease groove, others have 2 or more) setting up the Star dies is a PIA filling holes with lead shot, or opening them back up. Some guys buy additional dies for each bullet to avoid this pain, but that's more $$$ also. I can't see having multiple sizing dies of the same diameter to size different styles/weights of the same diameter bullets . . .

I shoot Bulleye competitively, and cast my own .45 bullets. Over Christmas when I cast/loaded my ammo for the 2013 season, I used the SAECO to size my bullets because it was faster than running them through the Star, and then wiping off excess lube from each bullet before seating in my Dillon 650.

My Star isn't for sale, and I don't want to appear to be "bashing" a well respected and well made product, but that's my take on the two sizers.

BTW, SAECO sizing dies are harder to find used, Lyman and RCBS being MUCH easier.

[adrians]

I have two sizers both are Lyman 45's , old, but work just like they were new out of the box.
They are just the ticket for my needs,,,:twisted::-D:twisted:

[David2011]

I have a Star and a Lyman 450 which I overhauled very affordably with the help from the nice lady at Lyman. She led me through the best way to order the replacement parts. It's like new now and seems like virtually everything but the casting ran under $35 a few years ago. The new linkage is heavier than the original. The Star is used for high volume (.40 S&W, .45ACP) and the Lyman for gas checks and low volume like rifle, .45 Colt and .44 mag. As much as I love my Dillon presses, I wish they were as perfect as the Star sizer. It has to be my finest casting tool.

David

[hermans]

I have an RCBS and a Star. The RCBS is a great tool, very sturdy and well made, backed by a very good life time warranty. Good for when you use different boolit designs and calibers, and in not such big volumes, since the dies are quick and easy to change. The Star on the other hand is a perfect sizer for one type of boolit in very large quantities, I use mine for my large quantities of 45 ACP boolts used in USPSA/IPSC type shooting. I love my Star since it saves me a lot of time.

[rexherring]

Just a quick note on my RCBS, their warranty is great. I e-mailed them to find a replacement threaded rod for my lube-a-matic. Within 48 hrs I received an e-mail saying they have one on the way, no charge. Received it within a week. Great service.

[cbrick]

I shoot Bulleye competitively, and cast my own .45 bullets. Over Christmas when I cast/loaded my ammo for the 2013 season, I used the SAECO to size my bullets because it was faster than running them through the Star, and then wiping off excess lube from each bullet before seating in my Dillon 650.

The SAECO would not be faster or even nearly as fast if you would simply take a little time to learn how to set up the Star. I have two stars and two SAECO's, after getting tired of the SAECO's doing nothing but taking up space on the bench I now have the two Star's mounted. I get zero lube on any boolit where I don't want it, nada, none but then when I got my first Star I DID take the time to learn how to set it up and use it. How do your bevel base boolits fair on the SAECO, Lyman, RCBS? Hhmmm . . .

Another huge plus for the Star that's not been mentioned yet in this thread is far more concentric boolits sized in the straight thru sizer. Yes, this even holds true of the LEE sizer when sizing nose first with a flat punch. The in & out method with a separate and often ill fitting nose punch will push the boolit into the die at whatever angle the nose punch has enough pressure on the boolit nose to grip it. I proved this to myself beyond any doubt by comparing boolits sized both ways on a machine shop comparator, it was an amazing difference.

There is nothing frustrating, aggravating or particularly time consuming about setting up the Star. It takes me about 5 minutes to change dies and/or for the number of lube grooves. That a Star is only for large runs of the same boolit is simply nonsense perpetrated by those that refuse to learn how. If you haven't the time to either learn how to use it or take 5 minutes to set up a die perhaps it's possible that you should simply be buying your bullets, that will save you some time.

Through out this thread and all the other such threads that come up fairly often it is always exactly the same theme, every single complaint, gripe or swipe at the Star is posted by someone that just couldn't be bothered to learn the machine.

Rick

[dragon813gt]

I have a RCBS w/ a homemade heater that came with it. You can see the rheostat in the pic.
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa39/dragon813gt/Firearms/Reloading/AFB0BC58-9257-47B2-9D77-06C2475FC8BD-24055-00000D5668455AD6.jpg

I hate doing large batches with it. It works just like it's supposed to and I haven't had any issues. I just saw that Cabine Tree makes a kit for it maintain pressure so you don't have to crank it down every few bullets. I think I'm going to give it a try.

I really want one that isn't so mind numbing. But I just can't afford a Star or Ballisticast right now. Especially since I'd want all the options :)

[NoZombies]

Okay, I'll chime in here:

I think I've had every sizer mentioned here, along with some others.

Ballisticast Pro's:
Exteremely fast at processing bullets
Built in heater allows the use of any lube you'd want
Robust
Built in bullet feeder prevents pinched fingers

Ballisticast Con's:
Expensive
Takes longer to set up than any other sizer I've used
Seems best suited to pistol bullets
Small batches are pointless

Star Pro's:
Fast
Solid
Plenty of aftermarket support (heaters, feed kits etc.)

Star Con's:
Expensive
Pinched fingers
Slow to set up for different designs (not as slow as the ballisticast, but close)

Saeco Pro's:
Well made
More leverage than other in/out sizers
Simpler set up than Star or ballisticast

Saeco Con's:
Most expensive of the in/out sizers
No faster than Lyman/RCBS
Higher cost, harder to find dies/ top punches (as compared to Lyman/RCBS)
Requires bench clamp

RCBS Pro's:
Generally better made than Lyman
Uses lyman "type" dies (common)
Uses Lyman "type" top punches
Customer service

RCBS Con's:
More expensive than Lyman
No faster than other in/out's

Lyman 450 Pro's:
Generally least expensive (and easy to find used)
Uses the most common sizing die types
Uses the most common top punch types

Lyman 450 con's:
I've never handled one that was particularly well made
Same speed as other in/outs
More alignment issues than with most other machines
Leakage around lead screw

Lyman 4500 Pro's: (Same as 450 except these notes)
Availability of built in heater makes more lubes usable
Sealed base prevents leakage around lead screw

Lyman 4500 Con's: (same as 450 except these notes)
More expensive
Less common on used market

Lyman 45 pro's:
Better alignement than 450/4500/RCBS type sizers
Quicker die changes
Die availability
Top punch availability
Generally found inexpensively on used market

Lyman 45 con's:
Not the strongest design (especially handles and linkages)
Can't use RCBS dies (without modifying the dies anyways)
Parts are hard to find
Leaks around lead screw base and die are common

For the eclectic:

Meepos Pro's:
Push through
Control of lube injection
Neat to have on the bench

Meepos Con's:
Impossible to find parts/ dies for (have to be custom made)
Slightly slower than other push-throughs, due to extra lube injection step

Herter's Pro's:
More leverage than Lyman 450/RCBS type presses
Most people haven't got one

Herter's Con's:
Hard to find dies

Ideal #1 Pro's:
Still uses Lyman type dies and punches
Well made
It's a piece of history

Ideal #1 Con's
Some parts are castings that can break if too much pressure applied
Requires separate bench clamp (often missing)
Requires special square wrench (also often missing)

Modern Bond Pro's:
Similar to Ideal #1 in many ways, but with steel parts in place of some cast iron
Rare
Well made

Modern Bond Con's:
Dies are unavailable (must be custom made)
Parts are impossible to find
Still some weak areas in the design, so it must be treated with care
Requires separate bench clamp (often missing)

There are other sizers out there, but that's the extent of my experience with them.

[oldfart1956]

MO45, just wanted to put this out there for thought. I load for 38/357/44/45/ and cast several boolits for each. I have and sometimes use a Lyman 450 and they work well. But most of the time I stick with the Lee sizer (or not sizing at all if possible) and Recluse loob. It's relatively fast, easy and repeatable results. And the kicker is I have yet to find using the 450 lubesizer made any of my loads shoot more accurately or with less leading. Not one. Not in any caliber. Not in any boolit design. And I've sent over 300 pounds of lead downrange in the last year and keep puddy fair records. Just some food for thought. Audie....the Oldfart.

[NVScouter]

+1 on Prof's comments. I bought his EXCELLENT special alignment tool to keep from stripping
the nut on my Lyman, and the RCBS is coarse enough still be a bit of a PITA, but
less fear of stripping. Lyman's linkage is a bit more fragile, too. Other than that,
not a lot of differences between LAM 1 and Lym 450/4500. LAM 2 has the non-rachet
lube feed, not sure if I'd like that.

Sad comment that gear's "100 watt incandescent lamp" is no longer available, since
the econNazis decided that breathing mercury fumes, getting UV irradiation and
poor light with short bulb life was REQUIRED so they could pretend to save the
world.

Bill
FYI at pet stores you can get under tank reptile heaters that stick on one side. They self regulate via thermistor at about 120. 10$ and less wattage then a bulb

[tenx]

get a Star and don't look back, after you have reloaded/cast your first hundred thousand or so you won't even consider anything else. the time saved and the quality is there in a Star. my RCBS lube sizer get occasional use for rifle bullets while the Star gets all the handgun bullets. works out great but i shoot mostly handgun.

[BruceB]

get a Star and don't look back, after you have reloaded/cast your first hundred thousand or so you won't even consider anything else. the time saved and the quality is there in a Star. my RCBS lube sizer get occasional use for rifle bullets while the Star gets all the handgun bullets. works out great but i shoot mostly handgun.



Suuuure. Right now, I have (and USE) two dozen different sizer dies for my Lyman lube-sizers. I just checked on Star bullet-sizing dies, and they list at $47.50 for each diameter. To replace my Lyman dies with a Star setup would cost me over ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS, PLUS the three hundred bucks for the machine. I don't think so.

The Star may be a fine machine for those who want lots of bullets in a very few different diameters. For anyone who experiments, or shoots a wide variety of calibers, it's a very expensive system that I can do without.

On my Lymans, I can process over 600 bullets per hour.....does anyone REALLY need more than that? The count is now well- over 1/2 million bullets over a term of forty-plus years, including about 300,000 .38 wadcutters, and I still have no intention of changing from the Lymans.

[cbrick]

Yep, that's the problem once invested in one of the machines. I've been using the Star and buying dies for many years, have over 30 of them now in various sizes per caliber. When I started with the Star I had maybe a half dozen SAECO dies that where duplicated. If I had all my dies in SAECO would I go ahead and replace them? Maybe on a cool day in h*ll but not before.

That's why I recommend to those looking for their first lubrisizer to start with what they would probably like to have on down the road & start with the Star. Cause like Bruce & like me duplicating that many dies ain't likely to happen.

Rick

[kir_kenix]

I have a Lyman and RCBS on my bench. The RCBS gets used more often, but it's not any better really. My old man has a STAR, and about 50 dies to boot. If I am going to be processing several thousand, its worth it to bring a bucket and use his machine. My little sister (8 yrs old) really enjoys helping, and she can fill tubes (made out of some sort of plastic tubing at the hardware store with a pin on the bottom to keep them in until you need them) about as fast as I can crank.

If I had to do it myself again, I would probably purchase a STAR and go from there. As it is now, it would cost at least $1500 to get the same die selection I have now. I'll probably just wait 'till my dads arthritus gets bad enough and offer to take it off his hands....I cast and load most of his ammo anymore anyway.

Can't go wrong with any of the above systems. Sure the push-in-push-out styles are slower, but its still possible to knock out 500 rounds an hour if you are working the lever fast enough. Heater shouldn't be a deal breaker either...as a piece of aluminum with a iron on it or a 100wt lightbulb work just fine. Plenty of guys 'make do' with this system for their whole shooting carreers and don't have a single complaint.

My grandfather shot bullseye and bowling pin matches from the late '40s to the mid 90's using a push-in-push-out style sizer and enjoyed every minute of being in the shop.