Vietnam Vets

[Beekeeper]

I hope this is not considered out of place by the Mods.

I was at Lowes about an hour ago and as I paid I showed my Military ID Card to get the 10% discount.
It was accepted by the cashier but the most asthounding question came from the Lady who was next in line.

"Vietnam Vet" to which I repied "Yes"
Then she asked me If I had made any arangements for pall bearers yet and I said "No"

Her Husband recently died in Connecitcut and she could not find enough people who would stand up and be a pall bearer for a Vietnam vet so it was done without pallbearers.

Then she said the strangest thing and I have to agree with her.
" isn't it strange that when we came home from Vietnam we were spit on and called baby killers and the same people that did it want us to treat their returning sons and daughters as hero's!!"

I just stood there for a minute and watched the clerk turn red as a beet. Maybe she was one of thee protesters during Vietnam, She was about the right age.

It all made me rethink the pall bearer thing and the returning hero's


beekeeper

[starmac]

I find it very sad that a man can live a lifetime and not have six friends or relatives that will be pallbearers, vet or not.

[plmitch]

I find it very sad that a man can live a lifetime and not have six friends or relatives that will be pallbearers, vet or not.

Sad yes and yet so odd at the same time.

[BLACK3]

I agree with both of you. As a Vietnam era vet I would hope I have at least 6 friends. At least I have a very large family. My best friend is my neice's husband and I hunt and fish with all my nephews that do so. So I at least am covered.

[jcwit]

At the present time that will not happen here in the community where I live in No. Indiana. Our American Legion, and Legion Riders will at the drop of a hat provide pall bearers, along with an Honor Guard complete with a Flag Folding Unit, Bible presentation, Flag Squad and a Rifle detail to fire a 3 round volley. There is no charge for any of this and I feel Honored that I can help give this to our fallen vets and community. We do this at the request of the family or from the undertaker.

I can no longer march in the Memorial Day Parade, but I still have my sections of the cemetery to place flags.

[Olevern]

The older you get the fewer friends you can count, as they drop off one by one. We also are a fragmented society, with friends and family frequently moving great distances apart to keep or gain employment. Family will come hundreds (or thousands) of miles for funerals, not too many friends, especially when they are old and in poor health.

Local legion posts are a blessing.

I, too am a Viet Nam veteran and had to hide that fact upon return to obtain employment.

[nhrifle]

I am not a veteran, never served, but my grandfather, father and brother all did. My father raised me to be proud of my country and those who served in its defense, and I salute everyone who put on a uniform and wrote a blank check to the US. I cannot understand how these people who gave so much can have so little gratitude returned to them. My grandfather was shot twice, once on Iwo Jima, and once when he was in Korea. My father has never said he was physically wounded, but the scars left by his tour of duty are plain to see in his eyes. My brother has never spoken to me about either Iraq or Afghanistan, I think it is just too much for him to relate to someone who has never been there.

I can't comprehend why Viet Nam vets are treated like this to this day. You are not leppers or criminals, you are heroes like all service members. To you I give my undying gratitude, even though you deserve so much more. Thank you for your service.

[jaysouth]

I know at least six people who would gladly carry my corporal remains to a hole in the ground and help fill it up, just to know that I was really dead and buried!

[Dean D.]

At the present time that will not happen here in the community where I live in No. Indiana. Our American Legion, and Legion Riders will at the drop of a hat provide pall bearers, along with an Honor Guard complete with a Flag Folding Unit, Bible presentation, Flag Squad and a Rifle detail to fire a 3 round volley. There is no charge for any of this and I feel Honored that I can help give this to our fallen vets and community. We do this at the request of the family or from the undertaker.


Likewise here. Unfortunately many Veterans families do not know this. If you are a Veteran do your family a favor and make sure they know what is available. My main reason for VFW membership is to be there to render final honors to our departed Veterans.

[gbrown]

Sorry if I sound cynical, but I could care less. When I'm dead, gone, I won't be worrying. I know why I did it and for the love of my country that was instilled into me by father, mother, grandmothers, grandfather and uncles who sacraficed a whole lot more than I did. If no one wants to carry me, I'll go peacefully and knowing that I kept the faith of my forefathers, some who served, some who didn't. My first duty as a pallbearer was for a high school friend who died in Vietnam, 1968. He was 21, I was 20. We played football together. I still visit the grave site and place flowers and flag. I'll stand and fight, I don't care what the others do!!

[jcwit]

Likewise here. Unfortunately many Veterans families do not know this. If you are a Veteran do your family a favor and make sure they know what is available. My main reason for VFW membership is to be there to render final honors to our departed Veterans.

Most funeral directors know to ask the family if the wish a Military Service or Honor Guard.

[jcwit]

Sorry if I sound cynical, but I could care less. When I'm dead, gone, I won't be worrying. I know why I did it and for the love of my country that was instilled into me by father, mother, grandmothers, grandfather and uncles who sacraficed a whole lot more than I did. If no one wants to carry me, I'll go peacefully and knowing that I kept the faith of my forefathers, some who served, some who didn't. My first duty as a pallbearer was for a high school friend who died in Vietnam, 1968. He was 21, I was 20. We played football together. I still visit the grave site and place flowers and flag. I'll stand and fight, I don't care what the others do!!

I not only do it for the Veteran but also for the deceased family, they are the ones in morning.

[462]

The V. A. has available their Federal Benefits for Veterans, Dependents and Survivors booklet. I got my copy from the local clinic, but reckon it's available through the V. A's. web-site. I urge all veterans to obtain and read it.

[Idaho Mule]

Beekeeper, if a pallbearer is needed for a fellow vet, I will be there if at all possible. I served from 1977-1981, US Navy. Can't even join the VFW because I was in no war (rules). A lifelong friend of mine is VFW, even served as our local Post Commander and served same time I did is allowed because he was sent into the Persian Gulf during the big Iran hostage crisis aboard the old Midway. I was aboard the Saratoga, as far east as you can go on the other side at the same time. Oh well. Some rules are silly, but if you need me I will be there. JW

[gkainz]

GONZO Station ... Midway relieved the Connie, Nimitz relieved Midway. I was on the Nimitz where we patrolled GONZO station for 144 days straight, and flew the ill-fated hostage rescue mission - Eagle Claw. Rest in peace, brothers.

Edit - let me clarify, since this doesn't read straight. I was not part of the rescue mission team who flew into Iran that night, just another brown shoe in the air wing.

[Frank46]

I have a good friend who's father was in bad shape and not expected to live. I suggested that he should get in touch with the Marine Corps League and find out about having them do the honors for his dad when the time came. He did and they did provide the honors that he deserved. Frank

[starmac]

jcwit I commend you guys for what you do, My sil dad passed a couple of years ago and the Amarillo Vets done a superfine job with the funeral, a real class act.

[jcwit]

Had to relearn the Manual of Arms over again and some of the other commands, they all came back fairly quickly. Only thing I can no longer do is the about face, it just doesn't work right anymore, something about being to top heavy.

[Lloyd Smale]

I kind of agree with gbrown. I guess it wouldnt matter much to me as im dead! that said around here anyway ANY vet who has a funeral has a crowd of other vets attending. The legion, vfw, vva all show up with honor guards and just about there whole membership. Me i would have no problem finding 6. Ive got a few freinds and a few others that will want to be there to cheer :)
Sorry if I sound cynical, but I could care less. When I'm dead, gone, I won't be worrying. I know why I did it and for the love of my country that was instilled into me by father, mother, grandmothers, grandfather and uncles who sacraficed a whole lot more than I did. If no one wants to carry me, I'll go peacefully and knowing that I kept the faith of my forefathers, some who served, some who didn't. My first duty as a pallbearer was for a high school friend who died in Vietnam, 1968. He was 21, I was 20. We played football together. I still visit the grave site and place flowers and flag. I'll stand and fight, I don't care what the others do!!

[Wal']

The same political ambulance chasers who disrespected our returning Vietnam Vets back then are the same creed as those today trying to remove your 2nd.

[WILCO]

I find it very sad that a man can live a lifetime and not have six friends or relatives that will be pallbearers, vet or not.

I've always thought it a civic duty to be a pallbearer and also a great honor when asked, or received when offered. When I interact with the younger bucks at work, I offer up my wit and wisdom when they seek my counsel. It's been my belief that the art of being a gentleman is lost to most of the younger generation. The act of being a pimp or player is most promoted these days.

Here's a few links for those interested:

http://artofmanliness.com/2010/02/11/a-mans-primer-on-funeral-etiquette/

http://www.a-to-z-of-manners-and-etiquette.com/pallbearers.html

http://www.connect.legacy.com/profiles/blogs/being-a-pallbearer-at-a-funeral

[montana_charlie]

"Isn't it strange that when we came home from Vietnam we were spit on and called baby killers and the same people that did it want us to treat their returning sons and daughters as hero's!!"
That's a thought I have studiously tried to ignore since Norman and the boys won the Gulf War.

As for pall bearers, I have no male relatives left and only three friends ... two of whom are too old to carry a casket.
If my wife survives me, she can choose the service that makes HER feel right.
If she doesn't, then none of it matters, anyway.

CM

[shooter93]

And you didn't have to be a returning Vet to be spit on back then. Virtually anyone in uniform was treated poorly that way. I saw it hundreds of times on city streets and airports. Can you even imagine the indignity to be spit on by your own countrymen for doing what the country asked of them. I am so glad troops today are treated better....me....I remember spit.

[Jammersix]

I don't know six people that I would want touching my casket.

The spitting is an urban myth.

[jcwit]

Well I lived the myth, urban or otherwise. Were you present in Washington D.C during the protests in the 60's? I was. I was not a protester either, but wore dress Greens.

If you weren't there, you'll never understand!

[gbrown]

Well I lived the myth, urban or otherwise. Were you present in Washington D.C during the protests in the 60's? I was. I was not a protester either, but wore dress Greens.

If you weren't there, you'll never understand!

+1 with this. As I remember, the reg said that you wore Class A or B when travelling. Kind of made you a moving target. I was there and have some memories of it. Some fond, some not.

[leadman]

I was in Korea, not Nam but during the same time period. Yes, we had to travel in dress greens. I remember one lady at the Chicago airport was upset because I was on the airplane and made quite a scene. It took me 7 days from leaving my base in Korea until I got home to Michigan. Kept getting bumped off flights when I told them I was flying military stand-by.
Just after basic I had to travel from Michigan to Ft. Belvoir Virginia for engineer school. Could not get a flight so ended up taking the bus. I had cars swerve towards me when I was hitch-hiking on the road 'cuz I didn't have any money for cab or bus fare. I used to dread a change of duty assignment.
Many people don't believe the military was treated this way but it is true. I was lucky that the place where I worked before going in was mostly vets so when I came back they understood.
I'm glad that the was military are viewed has changed for the better. Hope it makes a difficult task a little easier.

[Bad Water Bill]

I am 76 with a son flat broke and 1K miles away. one relative and she is 89.

Since my time of service was between 1956 and 1962 non of the military CLUBS want to even talk to me.

Thankfully the V A will still say thank you and provide a plot and sendoff.

[Jammersix]

I've heard it all before.

My wife points out that it's "urban legend", not "urban myth".

[richhodg66]

Jammersix, are you a veteran? How old are you? Were you around when this was going on? Was your wofe around when this was going on? Thus far, you seem to be talking about something you have no idea about and haven't provided any support to your argument, I think you just want to stir up trouble (again).

[Bad Water Bill]

I've heard it all before.

My wife points out that it's "urban legend", not "urban myth".

Since you have to HIDE behind your wifes skirts with your statement you have shown all who have had the intestinal fortitude to serve and keep you safe and cumfey under your blankey so that you and your wife will gladly join the ranks to spit on our returning troops AGAIN.

This message is from a VET who does remember the shameful behavior of those that lacked a backbone when we needed you.

[WILCO]

I think you just want to stir up trouble (again).

Just ignore him.

[Dean D.]

Ok People, lets stay civil here. As a Veteran this issue stirs my personal emotions also. Name calling or character assassination do not belong in this discussion or on this forum. Take the High Road Gentlemen.

[Beekeeper]

Jeez, I didn't want to start a rock throwing!!

Jammersix,
I am a Vietnam vetran and I was spit on and had S**t thrown at me at the San Francisco airport when I returned from Vietnam.
I do not know who your wife is ( maybe an info babe from that time) but she needs to get her facts straight!!

The Lady I talked to at Lowes said they would not supply pall bearers because her husband was a Vietnam Vetran, not a now a days vetran.

As someone whos family lived through that time it is still a very sore spot for me.
So to all who have not experienced it you have no right to comment about how the returning GI's were treated.

Just so you will know I did 6 six months cruises off the coast and 1 year in country Vietnam and wouldn't give you $.10 for the whole country.
And for the protesters that treated my family and me like dirt I wouldn't give $.01 for your help today ,all these years later.
The hate still runs deep.


beekeeper

[Larry Gibson]

"all these years later. The hate still runs deep.

Roger that.......

I won't forget and I won't forgive and to heck with the "high road"..........

Larry Gibson

[jcwit]

Got your "6" Larry & beekeeper.

Jammersix, being as you were at the ripe old age of 17 when the war ended and only 9 years old during the massive protests during 1967 and with your wife likely being even younger neither of you know what you speak of.

You seem to be of the same ilk I encountered while in Uniform.

[462]

I was not spit upon, after returning from Viet Nam. However, during an eight-hour layover in the San Francisco airport, the attitudes of those around me made me feel as if I didn't exist. I enlisted and volunteered to go to Viet Nam, but suspect it was especially difficult for the draftees to accept any mal-treatment they received.

Unless a person lived the experience, they haven't any right to make disparaging remarks about those who did.

And, while we're on the subject, let's not forget the traitorous acts of John Kerry and Jane Fonda.

[waksupi]

One of my friends who was there, had this take on it. He said the disrespect shown to the returning soldiers were by the likes of Obama, Fonda, Pelosi, Feinstein, et al. He said considering the trash they are, he considered being spit on by them to nearly be a badge of honor, and recognizes he was then, and still is now superior to them in every way. His only regret was that he wasn't permitted to beat them to a pulp.

[markinalpine]

I'm going to be cremated, and what's left will probably fit in a 2 Quart Zip Loc freezer bag that an old granny could carry.
I might just tell them to flush the ashes down the crapper. :bigsmyl2:
Mark :coffeecom

[Beekeeper]

When We returned from Vetnam in country we had to land at San Francisco instead of Travis AFB due to some kind of protest diruption at the Field.
Power outage we were told.
155 Men and Women got off of that plane, all of us carrying loaded guns.
I have always wondered what would of happened if someone had let off a clip into the overhead of the terminal?
We were warned it (the protest ) would happen and told to be on our best behavior but it sure would have been great to see it happen.
We would not have been the only ones wearing feces that day.

Like I said " I will never forget and I will never forgive"


beekeeper

[shooter93]

We traveled through airports on more then one occasion in areas that wer roped off to keep the protestors back and the spit from landing on us. And while I very seldom do this feel free Dean to give me the points or the boot....but Jammersix...you are ill mannered, disrespectful,insolent, rude and disdainful young man who wasn't there to experience it who I belive will become one of this site's premium trolls......Let the boot fall Dean.

[elkhuntfever]

Gentlemen, for those who served, from the bottom of my heart thank you.

[Bad Water Bill]

We traveled through airports on more then one occasion in areas that wer roped off to keep the protestors back and the spit from landing on us. And while I very seldom do this feel free Dean to give me the points or the boot....but Jammersix...you are ill mannered, disrespectful,insolent, rude and disdainful young man who wasn't there to experience it who I belive will become one of this site's premium trolls......Let the boot fall Dean.

Well said sir. Dean I will gladly absorb some of his points.

[jcwit]

I'll take a few, I probably deserve them anyway.

[gbrown]

We traveled through airports on more then one occasion in areas that wer roped off to keep the protestors back and the spit from landing on us. And while I very seldom do this feel free Dean to give me the points or the boot....but Jammersix...you are ill mannered, disrespectful,insolent, rude and disdainful young man who wasn't there to experience it who I belive will become one of this site's premium trolls......Let the boot fall Dean.


Well said sir. Dean I will gladly absorb some of his points.

We already been there once or twice, the third time ain't nothing. Like my first post, who cares, I know where I been and why I was there. These other, also rans, can pound sand. My uncle, an Army Air Corps pilot of WWII did a year in a German camp. The local populace tried to kill him when he 'chuted down. Saw things noone would want to see. Another, in the Pacific, lost friends to kamikazes, lots of them. Other uncles suffered, as their wives did with them gone. I have the flag off his casket, as well as the one off my dad's. My dad's will be on mine. Regardless of fools, I love my country and don't care what other idiots think.

[OeldeWolf]

I recently had a good friend die, a Marine and a Viet Vet.
First Veterans Day after we struck up a friendship <which was how I had learned he was a vet>, I thanked him for his service.
He said it was the first time ever, that anyone had thanked him.
He also recounted some of the abuse he got here in the states coming back stateside. It is no urban legend, it was a very sad part of history. The flip side of all the peace protests was violence. A lot if violence, as I recall.

Yes, I was too young for Nam, they ended it just before I grasduated High School. But My dad was USN, and my memory good.

I want to say thank you, to all who served, at any point in time. And that the scum did not represent all of us who were statreside.

[starmac]

I was too young for Nam too, but I wasn't too young to see all the BS that went on, even a lot of it was in the news. I think some places were worse than others.

[mpmarty]

+1 Beekeeper. Sempre Fi. Pleiku '65-'67 Yup, a re-up dummy did it to myself when I was a single digit midget. Came back in time for the riots in '68 in LA where unfortunately Barbara Boxer and Ms. Pelosi weren't caught in the crossfire.

[gon2shoot]

I've been trying to stay quiet here, I generally don't get involved in other peoples squabbles. But when the clueless begin disrepcting my brothers again it really ticks me off.
I didn't get spit on myself, but was standing close enough to see it happen. I am proud of my service, and proud of those who served with me.

Welcome home brothers.

[Stephen Cohen]

That is one of the most horrible things I have ever heard. If you do go before me, I will fly over and proudly be there for you. The views of some, make me sick.

[ErikO]

I've guided the rail for quite a few passed friends who were vets. Proud to do it even if I failed to serve myself. Blaming the soldiers for the follys of the politicians is not what patriots do...

Even John Adams took up the cause of the British soldiers that fired on the crowd in Boston. It's the right thing to do.

[montana_charlie]

I've heard it all before.

My wife points out that it's "urban legend", not "urban myth".
Is that offered as a correction in the terminology being used?
... or ...
Should we take that to mean that she never actually puckered up and let fly?

CM

[shdwlkr]

Well I will throw my .03 cents into this thread
I spent time between 69-77 in a uniform, never asked why my country wanted me to do anything, went from E1-E7 so must have done something right.
I have been spit on, had garbage thrown at me, called a baby killer and worse all by my fellow countrymen.
When I am dead I don't expect anyone to attend because of when I wore the uniform, yes there is still issues with that time period. If I am lucky someone will find a piece of dirt for me to rest in if not I will be food for the animals or maybe just something to be burned and thrown in the garbage.
I don't blame anyone for the way they feel it is a free country or at least it used to be.
We have been labeled as home grown terrorists by HSO and never have they recanted for calling us that.
This new generation of veterans is getting some good press but sadly many are coming home in body bags, those who are still vertical have so many issues that it is heart rendering that they can not many times get the help they need.

All I can say is watch your six and keep your bible and firearm close as the time is coming when both maybe needed to keep us a free nation.

[Iowa Fox]

Well I lived the myth, urban or otherwise. Were you present in Washington D.C during the protests in the 60's? I was. I was not a protester either, but wore dress Greens.

If you weren't there, you'll never understand!

By any chance were you with the 503d MP Btn?

[cdet69]

The sad fact is a large number of the population do not even know what a military fueneral is. We have become so isolated from how things work that if you do not tell them will never know.

[MGySgt]

I have gone to many Military Funeral's as a pall bearer and SNCOIC of the Marine Corps Funeral Detail at the Quantico National Cemetary while I was station at MCDEC Quantico, VA. Each one was hard (emotionaly) on all that were part of the Detail. Almost every time I presented the Flag my voice would catch and I would swear I wouldn't do another one - but when I was called I always went - I even missed opening day for deer season in PA one year due to a funeral.

And yes I remember all too vibidly coming home in 72 and coming through LAX (landed at Norton AFB and had to take a Taxi to LAX) and being spit at (and hit), called baby killer and a few other names.

Hanoi Jane should still be tried as a traitor and hung!

Semper Fi Brothers!

[gbrown]

I have gone to many Military Funeral's as a pall bearer and SNCOIC of the Marine Corps Funeral Detail at the Quantico National Cemetary while I was station at MCDEC Quantico, VA. Each one was hard (emotionaly) on all that were part of the Detail. Almost every time I presented the Flag my voice would catch and I would swear I wouldn't do another one - but when I was called I always went - I even missed opening day for deer season in PA one year due to a funeral.

And yes I remember all too vibidly coming home in 72 and coming through LAX (landed at Norton AFB and had to take a Taxi to LAX) and being spit at (and hit), called baby killer and a few other names.

Hanoi Jane should still be tried as a traitor and hung!

Semper Fi Brothers!

All I can add, is I appreciate what you did. Hard is a part of the military, sad, but true. For you and the family. What you did was an honor for those that fell. When you part with one of those, you can't but hurt in the bottom of who you are. But for the grace of God, go us.