54 cal sizing die

[northwoods]

gents:

I am looking for a source for 54 cal sizing dies for my TC hawken.

any suggestions?

northwoods

[wgr]

try dixie gun works

[johnson1942]

doughty enterprises at 1 406 531 2026 can make one any size you want for $30.37 and thats including shipping. just sent a order off my self for a .491 to resize to paperpatch. cheaper than lee by a couple of dollars.

[bubba.50]

ya don't say in yer post what projectile yer tryin' to size or for what purpose. if yer wantin' to size lee r.e.a.l.s or maxiballs-don't. the front bands are oversize to engrave the riflin' when ya load. if yer paper-patchin' these other fellers likely got ya covered. luck to ya, & have a good'en, bubba.

[451whitworth]

try here: www.lodgewood.com
click on accessories then sizing dies

[northwoods]

thanks guys. I will be sizing conicals both for paper patching and unpatched. I did try dixie but had no luck. Lodgewood looks pretty good as well as doughty. I'm off to slug the bore!

northwoods (of mn)

[northwoods]

This is an old thread, but I am looking at another sizing die (did purchase one for paper patching)- for a 54 conical for a 54 TC hawken Bore is .548. I do not know if the die should bring the slug to .548 or slightly smaller?

[fouronesix]

This is an old thread, but I am looking at another sizing die (did purchase one for paper patching)- for a 54 conical for a 54 TC hawken Bore is .548. I do not know if the die should bring the slug to .548 or slightly smaller?

Might try again as those numbers don't work right.

[johnson1942]

to paperpatch you want the unwrapped bullet 8 thousands under the top of the lands diamater of the bore. then two wraps of number 9 paper works quite well, or 1 wrap of 18 pound paper. if the bullet is a little under sized when wrapped just knarl up the bare bullet between two clean sharp flat files by rolling the bullet between them. wrap after knarling a little then a loose bullet will fit fine.

[varsity07840]

Lee has them in stock sizes and will also make them to order. They fit a standard loading press.

Duane

[northwoods]

Might try again as those numbers don't work right.

This die is not for a paper patch bullet. I have one for that purpose. This is for a bore sized bullet. Do I size it slightly under at say .547 or .546?

[fouronesix]

"Do I size it slightly under at say .547 or .546?"

Those numbers still don't sound right. You're listing bore diameter numbers that look more like groove diameter numbers. In post #7 and again in post #11.

What is the bore diameter of your 54 cal T/C? What is the groove diameter?

The definitions of each are different and critical to communication about bore specs. You need a conical of about bore diameter. You need a sizer of about bore diameter.

[mooman76]

Are you talking a maxie or minie conical? If for a minie you want it .001-.002 under bore size so it will slide down the bore easy. A maxie you want over bore size so when you force it down the bore it will seal the groves.

[northwoods]

Are you talking a maxie or minie conical? If for a minie you want it .001-.002 under bore size so it will slide down the bore easy. A maxie you want over bore size so when you force it down the bore it will seal the groves.

bore is .548. bullet is 425 gr flat base conical.

[fouronesix]

northwoods,

The definition of bore diameter of a bore with even number of grooves is the distance between the opposing lands. The groove diameter of that bore is the distance between opposing grooves.

The standard bore specs for a T/C 54 caliber rifle are going to be:
bore diameter--- .540"
groove diameter- .548"

If you size a flat base conical to much larger than .540" (and if your bore's specs are fairly standard) you are going to have a heck of a time starting it straight without a dedicated inline short starter.

I'm guessing that your bore dimensions should be fairly close to:
bore= .540" and groove= .548".

[northwoods]

northwoods,

The definition of bore diameter of a bore with even number of grooves is the distance between the opposing lands. The groove diameter of that bore is the distance between opposing grooves.

The standard bore specs for a T/C 54 caliber rifle are going to be:
bore diameter--- .540"
groove diameter- .548"

If you size a flat base conical to much larger than .540" (and if your bore's specs are fairly standard) you are going to have a heck of a time starting it straight without a dedicated inline short starter.

I'm guessing that your bore dimensions should be fairly close to:
bore= .540" and groove= .548".

O.K. got it . Then if I size to bore diameter, then there is virtually no engraving when loaded. So does the bullet even grip the rifling? Or am I depending on bullet upset to fill the grooves?

[fouronesix]

OK good.

The basic solid base conical types for muzzleloaders (unless you get into pre-engraved slugs or specialized dedicated inline starters) are all going to be close to bore size.

The Lee REAL is one type. It's bands are thin edged and the bands can be engraved when loading. The bands are slightly larger than bore size. Even then it can, at times, be very difficult to start the REAL straight.

The older style T/C Maxiball is a 2 diameter bullet. The bottom two bands are bore diameter and only the top thin band is .002-.004" larger than bore. It is finger started (slip fit) up to the small top band. Then a conventional short starter is used to pop it into full engraving, then the bullet can be rammed fairly easily down to the powder. These are very easy to start straight.

Several other types, like the Lyman Plains, Hornady Great Plains, etc. are fairly close to bore diameter, or should be on the lower bands (not unlike the T/C Maxiball), and are easily started by finger press followed by using a standard short starter.

In each case these type solid base conicals are of soft to near pure lead. The theory is that upon powder ignition and at least for the first stage of accelerated push down the bore, the soft lead obturates, seals the bore and more or less fills the grooves and "take" the rifling for spin.

The deep hollow base of a conventional Minié, that is sized between bore size to slightly less than bore size, is designed to expand into the grooves to take rifling spin. Likewise, the Minié does best if of very soft to near pure lead.

For the solid base conicals, many times, better accuracy is obtained by using a fiber or felt base wad of bore diameter along with mid- to fairly heavy charges of blackpowder. Most Miniés do better without any base wad and with light to mid level charges of powder.

All are similarly lubed. Paper patching any type is another matter.

[northwoods]

The bullet I am trying to size is an LBT flat base that has a driving band that measures at .553, and the lower portion at .542. I am having my doubts that this bullet can be sized to .540-.542, so this mold may be junk. How much can a bullet be reduced by sizing?

[fouronesix]

Hmm? I've resized about .008-.010. But IMO, .010-.013 is starting to push the limit. If the bands aren't too wide then it's certainly possible if the alloy is very soft or near pure lead and may also depend on how deep the lube grooves are. No telling how good the result will be though. Any possibility your bullet (mold) was designed for something like a Sharps 1859? A picture would help.

The best option for a specific size like .540 would probably be a custom Lee push through sizer. From Lee, they are about $35 plus shipping plus the wait.

[northwoods]

alloy is pure lead

[mooman76]

The bullet I am trying to size is an LBT flat base that has a driving band that measures at .553, and the lower portion at .542. I am having my doubts that this bullet can be sized to .540-.542, so this mold may be junk. How much can a bullet be reduced by sizing?

Sounds like you haven't even tried it yet and you are getting all twisted up over sizing it. It's designed to size as you drive it down the bore that's why the bottom driving band is smaller so it will align better when you start it. You don't have as much to size because the bottom band is smaller already. The Lee REAL is .017 over the bore size and sizes down just fine. You just give it a good wack with a short starter. Just try shooting it as is before you go investing a bunch of money in a sizing die that you may not need ot may actually make it not shoot as good.

[fouronesix]

I have no idea what the real bore and groove specs are for the rifle nor do I have any idea about what the bullet is or what its specs are. After 21 posts in this thread, seems like a cryptic form of "20 questions".
Good luck. :)

[Good Cheer]

I'd love to see what LBT made. Can you post a picture?

[northwoods]

If I can figure out how to post a pic I will do it.

[northwoods]

I have tried it. Real pain to load.

[northwoods]

130715

[Good Cheer]

Big pain?
Did you get to shoot for group yet? Was wondering maybe how the alignment was working out.

By the way, I've tried out the push through sizers made by Tennessee. No complaints.
http://oldfoxtraders.com/TnMolds/accessories.htm

[johnson1942]

good cheer, thanks for another source for resizers and molds.

[DCP]

Buckshot our Super Moderator makes sizing dies

[Harleysboss]

I just ordered one in .532 from Tennessee bullet molds..$33 shipped. This will be my second size die from them..quality.

[OverMax]

MO: So many commenters were spot on in this subject you raised. And too I agree with the prior commenter. Buckshot would also be my choice for a resource to discuss your needs in a Resizer die. He is also a Sponsor here in C/B's which in so many words means he'll help you as best he can. Quite a few fellows have ordered custom made push thru type dies from B/S for P/Patching of all sorts or calibers and boolits. Myself included.
FWIW: The rules that apply to P/P cartridge bullets may not apply to a muzzle loader since a M/L's boolit apparently is by reason suppose to engrave itself upon its loading and too needs be reloadable with some degree of barrel fouling involved there after.
A good resource to contact in such matters {P/P'ing B/P boolits} would be Idahoron and he too has a couple Sticky's posted on this subject. I believe he patches a specific Lee cast boolit for use in his 50 cal Renegade and has proven to all who have taken the time read his Sticky/s doing so is well worth the effort. Good luck with your adventure and addiction too in Paper Patching .