New Lee Enfield Needs Big Boolits

[gunboat57]

I just bought another No1 Mk III* Lee Enfield. It started life at Enfield but somehow ended up in Australia in 1943 where it got refurbed. It's got a nice finish, all new wood, and a bolt head that gives it a headspace of .064, right at the min. However, it has bore and groove diameters of .304 and .318 inches. It's a 5 groove.

Based on all I've read it sounds like I need a boolit sized to .319, or maybe .321 as cast? I measured a fired case mouth and it is a bit over .318 so I think I've got some room.

What boolit should I use? I was thinking that something for the 8mm (J) Mauser might be a good starting place?

[Mr Peabody]

Or maybe something for the .32 Special. I think RCBS has a 170gr FP that drops around .321. You could size that down pretty easy.

[HARRYMPOPE]

Have Erik Ohlen of Hollowpoint mold service open up the drive bands on a 314299 and put a .305 "DD"( nose bore ride band) on the nose.My buddy just had this done and his #4 has come to life.it went from being a 2-3 MOA gun to a gun that has shot a few 10 shots groups under 1-3/4" i at 100 yards.(6X scope)

George

[uscra112]

There's a boatload of Lyman designs that are in the .319 - .321 range for the .32-40 and by extension the .32 Special, but an oversized 314299 sounds even better to me. Cast your throat of course, before you decide on a mold.

[runfiverun]

see post number three..
the bbl size and case measurement is a blessing in disguise.
get the right mold and think about NOT sizing your cases.
NOT F/L sizing and definatly NOT neck sizng.
case mouth flair is fine leave it to contact the chambers neck.

i wouldn't hesitate to measure the throat and just buy a one off mold either.

[303Guy]

see post number three..
the bbl size and case measurement is a blessing in disguise.
get the right mold and think about NOT sizing your cases.Exactly! I'd suggest a 215gr boolit range. It fits the magazine and the throat (nose size and shape must be right of course) and sits right into the leade - depending on the actual throat of course. I have a 208gr smooth side paper patch mold that fits my over size bore rifles just right.

[gunboat57]

I did a chamber cast and here's what it looks like:

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/gunboat57/No%201%20Mk%20III/000_1123_zps051d0c80.jpg

The neck portion of the chamber measures .345 diameter. If my brass has .012 walls that limits my boolit to .321 max. with no room to spare. The groove diameter just in front of the neck measures .321 diameter, the bore is .317 diameter. Is that what's called the leade?

[runfiverun]

yeah, leade. throat.
you know what it looks like and what it measures now.
a 320 boolit in the right places would allow it to be a press fit in the cases and still allow it to leave the case without any sizing.
the case mouth will open and close on firing.
i'd bet if you sent that and the initial measurements to veral he would make you an exact fitting boolit mold.
you also have the option of turning a thou off the case necks [which would true things up]
and give you some very,very long case life.

[303Guy]

It looks like you have a long taper leade. The ideal forward shank would match that taper. I'd do what runfiverun suggests. It should shoot real good. Just check muzzle wear.

[gunboat57]

I took a .323 jacketed bullet and seated it pointy end first into a fired Remington 303 case until the base was flush with the case mouth. The OD of the neck was .346 inch. It would not chamber. I sanded off some brass until the neck was .344 diameter. That will chamber easily. So the biggest cast boolit I can use will have to be .321 or less.

I think what I'll do now is just order some .321 cast, lubed and sized boolits. Then I can experiment a bit before I invest in molds, sizing dies, gas checks, etc. Western Bullet has an RCBS #32-170-FN GC. Does that sound like a good starting point?

BTW, thanks for all the helpful advice so far!

[helice]

Is it a used mould? Has he poured any lead into the RCBS mould? That would help to know.

[gunboat57]

Regarding Western Bullet, I would just be buying the boolits, not the mold. They are advertised as being lubed, gas checked, and sized to .321".

[Larry Gibson]

The .321 bullets sound perfect. When you get around to getting a mould take a look at the Lyman Loverin 325470. I use it a lot sized down to .316 - .321 for my oversize .31s. I also use a Redding '06 bushing die that has been shortened (easy to do) for the 7.65 Argie, .303, 30-40 and 7.7 Jap lengths of cartridges. It can still be used for all '06 lenght cartridges too such as the 6.506, 270 and 280, etc. A .441 or .442 bushing should just NS those fired .303 cases with .002 neck tension which is just about perfect for long case life.

Larry Gibson

[stocker]

gunboat57: What does this rifle slug near the muzzle? And how are you measuring the 5 groove barrel? Did you have access to equipment (tools) that can do the job right? Even for a Smelly, groove diameter of .319 seems out of line. But, who knows how many times it has been fired or how sloppy they may have gotten in manufacture . The largest I have actually measured was one .316 and the bore was well worn.

[gunboat57]

Stocker, I measured a cerrosafe casting near the muzzle before I did the chamber cast. To get the groove diameter I twisted the casting between the jaws of my micrometer, opening the micrometer until the casting would just rotate. Since the 5 groove rifling has lands almost exactly the same width as the grooves, that maximum measurement corresponds to the groove diameter. Theoretically, the groove diameter could be a bit larger.

Then I measured between land and opposite groove. Subtracting gave me the groove depth. Then (groove diameter) - (2X groove depth) = bore diameter.

That's how I came up with a .304 bore and .318 groove. The chamber cast rifling an inch ahead of the leade agreed with those measurements. I think I saw somewhere on an official drawing that .318 was the max allowable production groove diameter.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/gunboat57/No%201%20Mk%20III/ENFIELDRIFLING_zps50233353.jpg

[gunboat57]

Here's what I saw before:

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/gunboat57/No%201%20Mk%20III/barreldimension001-1_zps2c406f45.jpg

According to this drawing, .304 bore is acceptable, .305 is rejected. A .007 groove depth is acceptable, .008 is rejected. So mine is at the extreme tolerance limit with a .304 and .318 bore and groove.

[stocker]

gunboat57; Thanks for the follow up info. Your rifle is certainly one of the largest I have ever heard of other than some that were shot to death possibly by M.G. But, I haven't spent a lot of time with L.E.'s so it may be a lack of exposure on my part. I have some 5 groove 35 Whelen's but land and groove width are different so they can't be measured in the same manner. I have been using a V-block and a dial indicator to determine groove depth and then adding one more groove depth dimension to the measurment between land and groove.

[303Guy]

I have a large bore SMLE barreled gun, something like .307x.318 or something. Unfortunately it gets bigger from the midpoint toward the muzzle. I'm going to cut the barrel in half, fire-lap it a bit then build my new pig gun. Measuring the bore is easy if one has a lathe. Just make up some brass pin gauges. Failing that, find a casting that can be paper patched up with various paper thicknesses and see how they fit. Remember that the compressibility in measuring is about the same as inserting it into the bore. Not accurate but it does give an indication.

I have a well worn bore rifle with a bore of .308 at the muzzle. Rifling is shallow. This rifle is pretty accurate at 100m with paper patch.