What glue to use on horn

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

My wife surprised me and ordered me the horn kit i had been looking at on track of the wolf
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/76/1/HORN-D-KIT

In the description it says " Each kit comes with step-by-step, full-color instructions for assembly "

I received a completed horn with a kit to add the valve, and no instructions , this is fine with me i just don't know whats the best glue or epoxy to glue the brass bushing into horn

so what is good for brass to horn bonding preferably something i can find at the small town hardware store

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

I used Devon standard dry time two part that comes in the twin tube dispenser. It hasn't failed in ten years.

[swamp]

I have used the 5 minute epoxy with good results. Any clear epoxy should do. Just make sure you have it where you want it before it sets. Also, it tends to get all over my hands, no matter how neat I try to be. [smilie=1:

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

Thank you

[gnoahhh]

As said, any good two part epoxy will do (although the 5-minute variety doesn't provide quite as strong of a bond). To get a good bond, add a mechanical 'bite' to the metal surface of the device by either filing some notches in it or scuffing it up with some coarse sandpaper. Thicken the epoxy with something (fine wood sanding dust would be ok for something like this)- you want the epoxy to stay packed in the notches/deep scratches when you slide it in, and not run out before it cures. Ditto make sure the horn surface is bone dry and clean. If the hole is smooth from having been drilled, rough it up a bit with a rat tail file or piece of sand paper wrapped around a stick, for the same reasons already stated.

Slather the pieces up well, push them together, wipe away the squeeze out with a paper towel, then wash down the surfaces with a solvent (rubbing alcohol or vinegar are common household things that dissolve wet epoxy- or mineral spirits, acetone, lacquer thinner,etc.), set aside overnight so it sets up completely. Wear rubber/latex gloves if you have them, especially if you clean up with acetone or thinner. If you get epoxy on your fingers it won't kill you, and the resulting brown stain goes away in a day or two.

The 'solvent stain' that remains after the cleanup is completed sands away (after the epoxy is set) with a couple licks with fine sandpaper.

[GARD72977]

I think any epoxy would do fine. If you want to improve the strength and thicken it up you could stop by a r/c hobby shop and pick up some 'milled fiberglass' to mix with it. This make the strongest epoxy I know of.

[I'll Make Mine]

If you want to be *traditional* with that horn, you could use hide glue -- this is essentially a very strong gelatin mixture, and I think I've seen a recipe for making it out of the Knox unflavored gelatin you can get at the grocery store. You heat the stuff in a double boiler, apply it with a brush and roller, and bond the parts while it's still hot, then clamp and/or roll them as the glue cools.

Once cold, gelatin glue can bond strongly enough to use in texturing glass -- a steel plate is glued to the glass, then pulled off, and takes flakes of glass with it. Yet, unlike epoxy or super glue, it's very easily debonded just by applying moist heat (below the boiling point of water, exact temp varies by the formula).

[gnoahhh]

Hide glue would be one of the last things I would use to bond metal to an organic substance. Having worked in the custom boat building industry for many years, I have seen it all in that regard. Moisture/water, wildly different expansion-contraction ratios, and (to a lesser degree in this instance) shock, all effect such bonds which are unnatural in nature to begin with. Even epoxy isn't foolproof which is why I strongly suggested the roughening of the surfaces to give as much 'tooth' to glue joint as possible.

Personally I never cared for metal dispensers on a horn, but the OP indicated that he is using one and I sought to provide what I feel is his best chance at making it work.

I sometimes use hide glue when building fine furniture. It gives a restorer a fighting chance when making repairs decades or centuries down the road owing to water/steam being its solvent. Daily use furniture gets joined with epoxy in my shop, as well as gun related work.

[longbow]

I made a powder horn about 35 years ago and used 5 minute epoxy to hold a brass valve in the horn. It came loose about 10 years ago. The epoxy got sort of soft and "mushy". Not sure if it is just old age weakening it, whether the powder got to it, or oils in the horn got to it. Easy to repair though and since it lasted probably 20 - 25 years not really a problem in my mind.

In my case, I just drilled the hole and left as drilled. The valve was knurled for the socket fit so smear with epoxy, push into the hole and let set. No problem.

Like I'll make Mine, I wouldn't hesitate to use hide glue though it you want a "traditional" bond. It is very strong and it is unlikely that water would penetrate a deep socket joint to soften the whole works up unless the horn was absolutely soaked for a long time. Hide glue was used to laminate horn to composite bows for many centuries so if it will withstand the stresses of flexing to full draw in various weather conditions, I think it will hold a brass valve in place.

Nonetheless, various suitable glues and epoxies are readily available almost everywhere and there is no prep time or effort other than mixing part A with part B.

[waksupi]

I would make a new plug, with no hole in it. Install a proper hand made staple. Make the plug end so it fits inside the horn. I use beeswax for a sealer, and cut thorns from a tree to use as pegs to stake the plug in place. That's how many of the old ones were made. I use no glue or epoxy. The beeswax moves with the weather, and is always water tight.

[Boerrancher]

Got to agree with Waksupi on this one 100%. I have only made one horn with a brass valve fitting, and I made it so it was a drive fit with a hammer. The other end was a walnut cap cut to be an exact fit, and sealed with bees wax and pinned in with brass pins. All of the other horns I have made were put together as Waksupi discribes.

Best wishes,

Joe

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

the horn came with a plug in the large end already glued and pinned

the bushing was already knurled , i drilled the prescribed 15/32 hole (horn smells bad when drilling) cleaned the hole out

mixed up gorilla epoxy according to label directions and it is all glued up , it sat over night and it looks good , probably not very authentic but very functional

[Boerrancher]

Ought to work well for you Pete. In the long run functional is more important than authentic. Since I have gotten into living history demos, I try to keep my gear as authentic as possible, but when it comes to my personal hunting gear, I use what works best for me. You should do the same.

Best wishes,

Joe

[Glassman66]

I would make a new plug, with no hole in it. Install a proper hand made staple. Make the plug end so it fits inside the horn. I use beeswax for a sealer, and cut thorns from a tree to use as pegs to stake the plug in place. That's how many of the old ones were made. I use no glue or epoxy. The beeswax moves with the weather, and is always water tight.


Could you point me in the direction of some good pics? I would very much like to make an authentic horn. Thanks.





Randy

[fouronesix]

Sorry I'm not waksupi,

But, you can go here and look at horns. Some of these are very accurate copies of originals. http://www.trackofthewolf.com/list/Item.aspx/75/1

And you can get one of these books- excellent section on horns and horn making. Book of Buckskinning II. Amazon lists these used starting at about $11. One of the dedicated standard powder horn reference books is going to be more serious $.

[Glassman66]

Sorry I'm not waksupi,

But, you can go here and look at horns. Some of these are very accurate copies of originals. http://www.trackofthewolf.com/list/Item.aspx/75/1



And you can get one of these books- excellent section on horns and horn making. Book of Buckskinning II. Amazon lists these used starting at about $11. One of the dedicated standard powder horn reference books is going to be more serious $.



Thanks!




Randy

[waksupi]

https://www.google.com/search?q=powder+horns&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=HGM&tbo=d&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=-kfrUKzoDaWuigKs1YGYDQ&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAA&biw=1280&bih=569


There are some pictures to get you started.

[Glassman66]

https://www.google.com/search?q=powder+horns&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=HGM&tbo=d&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=-kfrUKzoDaWuigKs1YGYDQ&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAA&biw=1280&bih=569




There are some pictures to get you started.


Thanks waksupi, I have already hit the google images and there are a lot of great pics there. I was hoping for some real closeups. I knew you had some very nice quality stuff from the pics in the possible thread, and maybe had some good pics.

Also, sorry to the O.P. for boosting your thread!




Randy

[Just Duke]

We need some pics when your done. ;)