Thoughts on Grease Groove Forward of the Case Mouth?

[Kansas Ed]

Looking at some mold designs, and one thing that stands out is a lot of them have short nose profiles. Take for instance the Loverin 257454 Ideal/Lyman design (which my 25-20SS loves). I'm pretty certain that a GG forward of the brass on this design is quite acceptable to most provided that the cartridge isn't crimped....But...what if you choose to crimp into a GG further back? Does anyone see any advantages or disadvantages to crimping in a GG and leaving a GG forward of the crimp? Furthermore, if you did crimp behind the forward GG would you leave the exposed GG free of lube, or fill it?

I could actually see the possibility of crimping in a GG as pulling the lube out of that GG and depositing it in the chamber throat area. But maybe this isn't a bad thing? Or maybe it is?

Any thoughts appreciated.

Ed

[btroj]

Why are you crimping at all? For rifles I don't crimp other than for lever actions. Anything that's fed a single round at a time doesn't generally get crimped.

You also could just put lube in those grooves that will be contained inside the case neck.

As for lube getting in the chamber throat area- it is going to get in there anyway. It doesn't cause any problems unless it builds up enough to make the throat smaller in dimension.

In short- don't invite trouble. Just load them and shoot them. See what your rifle likes. It may be happier with fewer grooves filled, no crimp, or who knows what else. Sounds like you have some testing to do.

[Kansas Ed]

Why are you crimping at all? For rifles I don't crimp other than for lever actions. Anything that's fed a single round at a time doesn't generally get crimped.

You also could just put lube in those grooves that will be contained inside the case neck.

As for lube getting in the chamber throat area- it is going to get in there anyway. It doesn't cause any problems unless it builds up enough to make the throat smaller in dimension.

In short- don't invite trouble. Just load them and shoot them. See what your rifle likes. It may be happier with fewer grooves filled, no crimp, or who knows what else. Sounds like you have some testing to do.

Because all I shoot are lever actions, with the exceptions being two lo-walls. Besides, I'm just looking at "in theory" here. I have no trouble testing anything, but prior to ordering a mold I would like to know what my chances would be if I tried to order a mold with the option of using a GG for a different rifle than the bullet is designed around. Say if I ordered a mold which worked well in the .375 Winchester, but wanted to extend the bullet out of the case some for a 38-72 or 38-56 (just an example). And yes, I do have a lot more testing to do :-D

Ed

[btroj]

Biggest issue with bullets having exposed lube grooves in a lever action is getting them to fit in the throat. A bolt action has the camming power to seat the bullet hard into the throat but a lever action lacks that strength.
The nose shape of a bullet is very important fit in most lever action throats. A bullet with lube grooves exposed is likely to be too long in the nose for proper fitting in a lever action chamber.

If the bullet feeds and fits the chamber then having exposed grease grooves isn't an issue. The lube won't hurt anything. Biggest downfall is the act the rounds tend to pick up stuff of carried in your pockets. I hunted this fall with a bullet having filled grooves forward of the case mouth. I was using a bolt action. Didn't bother me one bit.

Crimping in a grease groove is perfectly acceptable. Not filling all the grooves is very acceptable too. I would prefer no lube in grooves I crimp in but it isn't something I lose sleep over.

[runfiverun]

you'll have to shoot some to make sure.
you might be surprised at the difference in accuracy not having that extra lube makes.
i'll give you an odd one.
if i use winchester brass i leave the grooves full.
if i use remington brass i wipe them clean.
same rifle.
how's that for testing.
i am still amazed though at how much lead can be run down a bbl with such a small amount of lube.

[Kansas Ed]

Thanks for the replies. I've had to make due for years, for some of my cartridges with off the shelf cast bullets designed for other cartridges. I was wondering what failure modes to look for by seating long, if things should fail as I start down this casting road. Some good information in your replies. Thanks.

BTW RFR: How is Soda these days? I spent 8 years over the mtn. from you in Freedom...don't miss the winters there. LOL...but I do miss the BLM land that I could just hop in the truck and in 5 minutes be shooting into a mountain backstop somewhere.

Ed

[shooting on a shoestring]

I have two examples of exposed lube grooves. First is using the Saeco 315 which I seat with a couple of grooves outside the case for a 30-40 Krag. The second is 323470 seated with a couple exposed in the 8mm'06. I've not had any issue with the exposed grooves having lube in them. They sit loaded on the shelf in plastic ammo boxes until they get hauled to the range, loaded and fired. I have tried it with only lubing the grooves that are not exposed, they seemed to lead a bit quicker, so I just leave them all lubed exposed or not.

[runfiverun]

it ain't changed much in 8 years.
the gun range has grown up and is a nice facility versus the gravel cut-out it was.
La beaus is gonna re-open as a pizza/taco joint.
mullen is gonna open a new crane company after his spat with the company that bought the old one.
that should be all 8 years of major news here. :lol:
you wouldn't like freedom much anymore.
the jacksoniites are moving in there.
well,, being forced over there by the really wealthy actually.
but the whole valley is changing and growing.
i talk to the jenkins and some of the mc donalds from the valley over there all the time,and occasionally see dick still.


i always seat out as long as i possibly can,engraving the boolit if possible.

[MT Gianni]

I see a problem with the lube outsiide the acrtridge if it is carried where dirt can get to it. Controlled from box to gun @ the range should be fine. Where it might be thrown into a pack and carried for a few days I don't do it. Like R5R, I find 4 groove wadcutters do better with a good lube do better with only one groove filled.

[NVScouter]

My 22 Hornet with the 55g Bator mold needs to be seated with the first band exposed. I just left the lube there and try not to get stuff in it while in my pocket. It loves that loading so I just run it as is.

[HangFireW8]

I do it all the time with 8mm Kar and Max. They have so many lube grooves I've never lubed them all, and I never have problems with leading.

I try to put the case mouth on top of a drive band, or just over it for a (very) little crimp.

HF

[1Shirt]

I have no problem with it!
1Shirt!

[fredj338]

I see that as just a place for grit to stick to, so I like all the bulletlube inside the case.

[Kansas Ed]

Thanks for all the replies!! General consensus seems to be that junk sticking to the lube is the most problematic...and for someone who loads the magazine and doesn't put any in their pockets...I'm not worried. I've never emptied a magazine during deer season, so I don't see a practical issue for me. Just placed my order to Tom on the mold in lieu of the responses here....now the short but anticipatory wait :)

Ed

Ed