Forming 250 Savage brass from 308 Winchester

[Marlin Junky]

Does anyone have experience forming 250 Savage brass from 308 Winchester?

I'd like to leave the necks long and have a custom reamer made for the modified configuration ("250 Long Neck") but I'm not sure if commonly available reloading dies will accommodate an estimated .4" long neck. Why go through all this trouble?... I'd like to be able to shoot both the RCBS 257-120 and their Cowboy boolit (25-85-CM) equally as well. It certainly would be nice to shoot Lyman 257420 and any other second hand vintage Lyman mould I may run across too.

Input on optimal throats will be of great interest.

Thanks for looking,
MJ

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Marlin Junky,

Try and see if your standard 250 die will do the form.

Many dies are bored through quite a distance before the portion threaded for the decaping rod, so gently give it a try.

Something like Imperial Sizing wax should make it a simple form if the neck length is not an issue.

"STP" is great for forming, but the real pits for clean up!!!!!!!!!!

THEN, Ream or turn the neck to make sure there is proper neck clearance for bullet release on firing!

I like turning as I feel it gives me a more concentric neck over reaming which might possibly follow an off center hole.

I have formed MANY .308 to .243 and can see, other then the possible neck length situation, no reason the .308 to .250 shouldn't be very simple given proper lubing.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Marlin Junky]

Marlin Junky,

Try and see if your standard 250 die will do the form.

Many dies are bored through quite a distance before the portion threaded for the decaping rod, so gently give it a try.

Something like Imperial Sizing wax should make it a simple form if the neck length is not an issue.

"STP" is great for forming, but the real pits for clean up!!!!!!!!!!

THEN, Ream or turn the neck to make sure there is proper neck clearance for bullet release on firing!

I like turning as I feel it gives me a more concentric neck over reaming which might possibly follow an off center hole.

I have formed MANY .308 to .243 and can see, other then the possible neck length situation, no reason the .308 to .250 shouldn't be very simple given proper lubing.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

Thanks for the input. Actually, I don't have any 250 dies yet. Currently, I'm going through the list of stuff I need to resolve before ordering a custom reamer that'll incorporate a .4" (approx.) long neck on the 250 Savage.

MJ

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

"MJ"

Don't know what your reloading set up consists of, and I can understand how a custom forming die with /neck reamer might be really nice, but I just pulled the decapping stem from my .243 and 300win mag dies and both have plenty of length in the neck sizing portion to allow for a neck of .4".

Now, if you have a Forester neck trimmer or a newer RCBS trimmer, you may be just a short step away from having your neck situation taken care of. Specifically just buying a neck turning attachment.

My RCBS trimmer is years old, so the new attachment is not an option, however I do use a neck turner attachment on my Forester trimmer.

Guess what I'm looking at is finding the cheapest way to get the job done, but still getting it done with quality results.

When I size the .308 brass in my .243 die, I leave the decapper rod with it's neck expander in place as normal. By doing so, the neck is of the proper size to seat a bullet when it comes from the die, so all that is needed is a bit of outside turning to make the neck concentric to the bore and as said earlier, thin enough to allow for proper and safe release of the bullet when the new cartridge is fired.

This might (??????) not be an issue going from .308 to .250, but going to .243 without reaming or turning has been known to cause the distruction of nice .243 rifles.

Keep us posted as to your progress, but nothing wrong with taking a cheaper route as long as the end result is correct.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[NVScouter]

I form 250 from 22-250 cases single step and it leaves the neck a tad short but first firing brings it up. I'd experiment with 260 cases first to get that little extra without all the stepping of going down 5 calibers.

[Fluxed]

Forming from 308 is a huge pain. You're moving back into the section of the case that is thicker and harder (much more than making .243s, etc.). Its way better to use .250 Savage or .22-250 brass. I'd pick .250.

Besides making the brass, you're going to have to have a custom reamer made and custom dies. This is a loosing proposition. I'd look at a throating reamer to lengthen the standard .250 Savage throat to allow you to seat the bullets out. Only problem there might be in feeding from a magazine.

What kind of rifle do you think you'd like to use? That information might help in figuring out the cartridge.

[beagle]

I once helped a fellow make a hundred rounds of .22-250 from LC Match .30 cases. We got 'er done but he quickly replaced them with new brass which was coming out.

After an afternoon of sizing, trimming, neck reaming and trimming again, I said I'd never repeat that experiment./beagle

[shooter93]

Talk to CH...they will be able to tell you or recommend a multible die set. they are pretty quick and reasonably priced.

[Marlin Junky]

I once helped a fellow make a hundred rounds of .22-250 from LC Match .30 cases. We got 'er done but he quickly replaced them with new brass which was coming out.

After an afternoon of sizing, trimming, neck reaming and trimming again, I said I'd never repeat that experiment./beagle

Was that LC Match brass .30-'06 or 7.62x51?

MJ

[Shuz]

I form 250 from 22-250 cases single step and it leaves the neck a tad short but first firing brings it up. I'd experiment with 260 cases first to get that little extra without all the stepping of going down 5 calibers.

I've formed .250 Sav from .22-250 cases, but as NVScouter says, it does leave the neck a tad short.

[williamwaco]

I once helped a fellow make a hundred rounds of .22-250 from LC Match .30 cases. We got 'er done but he quickly replaced them with new brass which was coming out.

After an afternoon of sizing, trimming, neck reaming and trimming again, I said I'd never repeat that experiment./beagle


Ditto.

I did exactly that around 1970. It was a LOT of work.
Going from .30 to .25 would probably be easier but I think you would still need to ream the necks.

You do not need special dies.
I did it with a plain old RCBS full length sizing die.

.


.

[Marlin Junky]

What do you guys think about forming .250 Savage (with a .380" neck) from this stuff:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1601149910/remington-reloading-brass-260-remington

Then there's even the high dollar stuff:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/420958/lapua-reloading-brass-260-remington-box-of-100

But at a buck a crack, I'd really want absolutely no mishaps.

The shoulder has gotta be pushed down about .053".

MJ

[ammohead]

The extractor groove is different on the 308 family of cases. The 250 and other savages have a extractor groove like the 30-06. Probably only makes a difference in model 99s but there it is. I make 250 brass from 22-250 brass. Works good, no hassle, right groove.

If you keep an eye on Black Hills Shooters Supply they have seasonal runs of 250 quite often. At least they used to.

[Marlin Junky]

The extractor groove is different on the 308 family of cases. The 250 and other savages have a extractor groove like the 30-06. Probably only makes a difference in model 99s but there it is.

Gonna re-barrel an M77 chambered in .308. The only other thing(s) I might need is a follower and/or magazine.


... I make 250 brass from 22-250 brass. Works good, no hassle, right groove. If you keep an eye on Black Hills Shooters Supply they have seasonal runs of 250 quite often. At least they used to.

Please see comments under my "new barrel" thread.

MJ

P.S. I just checked the Brownells website and for 29 bucks I can purchase a 22-250 magazine box and follower for the M77... and that's without my discount. Hopefully, the new magazine box and follower will align the longer cartridge (about 2.75" or better). Another option would be the 250-3000 Improved with a 30º shoulder but I'm guessing the money for those dies will be a budget buster. Thanks for your input.

[NVScouter]

So why not just do the 257 Roberts if you are looking at a longer neck and the 250AI? Plus you wont have to change out the box/follower from the 308.

[Marlin Junky]

So why not just do the 257 Roberts if you are looking at a longer neck and the 250AI? Plus you wont have to change out the box/follower from the 308.

I think the 257 Roberts was an M77 long action chambering; hence, its follower and magazine box wouldn't fit on a short action.

http://www.brownells.com/schematics/Ruger-/M-77-MK-II-All-Weather-Sporter-sid716.aspx#r29sid716

Besides, all 57mm cases in this country are pretty much produced on a seasonal basis. That's not to say it isn't a great round... I just think once the custom reamer is made, a .25 on the .308 family of cases would be better suited to a short action, lighter weight gun.

MJ

[Mk42gunner]

Necking the brass down to .25 cal from any of the .308 family isn't a problem, even pushing the shoulder back isn't that big of a deal. The big PITA is squeezing the .308 case to produce the .250 Savage's taper. I haven't really made any .22-250 or .250 cases for real, but I did try making one to see just how hard it would be.

The answer was it was more than I wanted to do to get a shootable quantity. It took quite a bit of leaning on the Rockchuckers handle to get the job done.

An easier solution for a short action .25 might be the .25 Souper (.25-.308), but it doesn't have the long neck you are looking for.

Good Luck,

Robert

[Marlin Junky]

The answer was it was more than I wanted to do to get a shootable quantity. It took quite a bit of leaning on the Rockchuckers handle to get the job done.

I was afraid of that.

However, there is a solution... the 250 Improved (30º shoulder) or Ackley (40º shoulder).

MJ

[NVScouter]

Or 25 WSSM. Its the only short mag I can say I actualy liked shooting. I love my 250-3000 and have been thinking my Ruger M77 in 22-250 needs a new 250 barrel. Its just so enjoyable to shoot and 87g TNTs skin ground squirrels in a way no .22 bullet can dream of. Add deer and coyotes to that and it is one heck of a round.

[Marlin Junky]

There was an RCBS version of the 250-3000 that used a 28º shoulder with an "Improved" body taper. I'd be interested in acquiring reloading dies for this version if anyone knows of a good set needing a home.

MJ

[Willbird]

There was an RCBS version of the 250-3000 that used a 28º shoulder with an "Improved" body taper. I'd be interested in acquiring reloading dies for this version if anyone knows of a good set needing a home.

MJ

I did link to new ones on the other thread. Both RCBS and Redding (at least) make them. The 40 degree is a cheaper die set. I have 22-250 AI 40 degree dies, could try running a 260 or 308 in there if you would like, if it looks decent you can have a few and then open them up to 250. Give you something to fondle anyway.

[Nrut]

Necking the brass down to .25 cal from any of the .308 family isn't a problem, even pushing the shoulder back isn't that big of a deal. The big PITA is squeezing the .308 case to produce the .250 Savage's taper. I haven't really made any .22-250 or .250 cases for real, but I did try making one to see just how hard it would be.

The answer was it was more than I wanted to do to get a shootable quantity. It took quite a bit of leaning on the Rockchuckers handle to get the job done.

An easier solution for a short action .25 might be the .25 Souper (.25-.308), but it doesn't have the long neck you are looking for.

Good Luck,

Robert
If you use a Redding form trim die, lube the case properly it is no big deal..

I have done it..

When I say lube the case properly I mean use LEE sizing lube or BullShops sizing lube..
Apply just enough lube to give the case a dull color or you will end up with dents in the neck or wrinkles in the shoulder..

Imperial sizing lube doesn't cut the mustard!

[Dan Cash]

It is much easier to blow out .22-250 brass back to the parent .250 Savage.

[Nrut]

It is much easier to blow out .22-250 brass back to the parent .250 Savage.
Yes it is but you don't get a "long neck" 250-3000 by fire forming..

[Willbird]

If you use a Redding form trim die, lube the case properly it is no big deal..

I have done it..

When I say lube the case properly I mean use LEE sizing lube or BullShops sizing lube..
Apply just enough lube to give the case a dull color or you will end up with dents in the neck or wrinkles in the shoulder..

Imperial sizing lube doesn't cut the mustard!

But WHY take a nice modern case and make it into the "ideal" case of almost 100 years ago with all that body taper ??

Bill

[Nrut]

I do it to better fit the chambers of my old (made in the 20's) Savage 99TD and Savage 1920 bolt rifle..
By using LC brass I get a much better fit..

MJ has already explained why he wants to do it..

[Willbird]

I do it to better fit the chambers of my old (made in the 20's) Savage 99TD and Savage 1920 bolt rifle..
By using LC brass I get a much better fit..

MJ has already explained why he wants to do it..

Yes I understand making brass to fit an oversize saami chamber better than undersized saami brass. But to design a clean slate ctg with all that body taper just leaves me scratching my head.

Bill

[Nrut]

$$$$$$$$$
Both in dies and reamer if he can find a gunsmith with a 250-3000 reamer..
Then MJ can just buy a reamer to extend the neck and throat to fit dummy his round..
I don't know if a regular 250 seater die will work with these long necks (should) but I do know the a regular sizing die will because I tried with the ones I made earlier
Make sense?

[o6Patient]

I'm assuming you've got access to cheap 308 brass...
As Dan Cash has said it would be a lot easier to blow out 22/250's
or if you could find some cheap 300 savage and neck them down.
It's far easier to do that than pushing back the shoulder of a 308 (IMHO).

If you're having a custom reamer made anyway why not go with a 25-08
and be done with it?
regards

[nanuk]

why is it, when someone askes a simple question, many folks give answers to a completely different question, that wasn't asked?

MJ, I understand what you are trying to accomplish.

from the little research I did, I read that the Redding form dies would be what you may want.

they are chamber sized, and not Full Length sized like RCBS. You'd get a better fit, and could make the neck as long as you want.

I am looking at options to do something similar to get a chamber filling cartridge in .308Win.

[Nrut]

Seems like a lot of the posters didn't read the OP. [smilie=1::roll:[smilie=1:
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Does anyone have experience forming 250 Savage brass from 308 Winchester?

I'd like to leave the necks long and have a custom reamer made for the modified configuration ("250 Long Neck") but I'm not sure if commonly available reloading dies will accommodate an estimated .4" long neck. Why go through all this trouble?... I'd like to be able to shoot both the RCBS 257-120 and their Cowboy boolit (25-85-CM) equally as well. It certainly would be nice to shoot Lyman 257420 and any other second hand vintage Lyman mould I may run across too.

Input on optimal throats will be of great interest.

Thanks for looking,
MJ

[plainsman456]

It can be done with some time and muscle.

I had nothing to do back in the early 80s and did this using 30-06,270 win and 308 brass.

To give the case necks enough room to expand and release the bullet,I bought a Forester trimmer with inside and outside reamers.

They are still in service today and are tougher it seems than factorybrass.

I say go for it.

[Al_sway]

I formed some cases for a .22-250 Imp from .308 Winchester a few years ago. It was a lot of work.
I started out by full length sizing the .308 cases in a .308 die. The next step was to push back the shoulder, and I did that with a 7mm BR die that I happened across. It works because it is shorter than the .308 case, and close enough to .30 cal that it allowed me to devote the work to pushing the shoulder and not resizing the neck. At that point I had a really long necked 7 mm case. I did a round trim to length at this time, and then after wiping off the old lube, and applying some new stuff, I used the .22-250 die to resize these cases. A final trim and then neck turning or reaming, before fire forming. It was easier to buy a bag of .22-250 brass and fire-form! If you want a long neck .25 cal, I would suggest going with the .257 Roberts.

[mongoosesnipe]

308 wouldn't be my first choice for forming 250 savage brass if I was just looking for brass I would use 22-250 brass or 300 savage brass one of hose will be easier to find than the other if I wanted match quality brass I would fourm it out of 6.5x47 lapua neck size should be almost correct without reaming and while it is expensive lapua brass is second to none