Micrometer advice

[762 shooter]

I have decided to give myself a Christmas present of a micrometer.

I have noticed several used 436 - 0-1" Starretts on BeBay with prices ranging from $20 to $100.

I decided I do not want one with batteries. This mic seems to be able to measure to 1/1000. Is this correct?

I did a search here but didn't find much.

I have picked up on the fact that mics are usually a personal preference but I want to get some advice on my first purchase. This will be used mainly in a reloading setting, Boolets, cases, Etc.

Is buying a used mic sorta like buying used underwear?

Any advice will be appreciated.

762

[Moonman]

Starett, Brown and Sharp, Mitutoyo.
Standard Micrometers last for decades if taken care of.
Many should be in the marketplace as most machinist jobs
in industry left for China .

A mic that measures in .001 is fine for reloading,
Mics reading down to .0001 is a matter of the operators feel,
and the AMBIENT AIR TEMPRETURE.

A 40 year machinist.

[762 shooter]

Is used scary?


Starett, Brown and Sharp, Mitutoyo.
Standard Micrometers last for decades if taken care of.
Many should be in the marketplace as most machinist jobs
in industry left for China .

A mic that measures in .001 is fine for reloading,
Mics reading down to .0001 is a matter of the operators feel,
and the AMBIENT AIR TEMPRETURE.

A 40 year machinist.

[elk hunter]

Used isn't necessarily scary, but I do want to examine something like precision measuring tools before buying used.

A Starrett micrometer is wonderfully accurate if it hasn't been abused, but for reloading I find a 6" caliper much more useful as you can check diameters plus case length and over all length with it. I have numerous precision measuring tools for serious work, but recently bought an inexpensive import caliper to keep at the reloading bench and it works quite well for it's intended purpose.

[Reg]

A 436 Starrett is one great mic as are the others mentioned. In good condition all will last a lifetime plus. Nothing wrong with used as long as it is not sprung. Open the mic a bit, carefully clean the faces then bring together, just make the faces touch, it's not a C clamp. Many 436's and others had friction thimbles or ratchets on top the thimble and should be preset for friction.
Look for any mis alignment on the faces, chipping, etc. Under a strong light look for total contact. If the mic is sprung you most likely will see a bluish light somewhere on the faces. If you can check the outer dimension with a setting rod or a Jo block if you can find one. If it reads correct on both ends of the spectrum you can rest easy, it's a good one.
Ambient temp is only a problem if the mic is not kept in normal room temps. A very cold garage or leaving it in the sun can easly make a difference of .001 or more. Normally if kept and set at around 70/72 degrees it will stay correct to 5 places.

I agree with moonman, a .001 mike is really about all you need. By the time you get to 4 places a lot more factors enter and some of them have led to real knock down drag outs between line machinists and inspectors.

Stay away from anything with a battery in it !!!!!!! The one time you really need it the darn battery is dead. Been there , dun that.

:Fire:

[nhrifle]

My personal preferance is for Mitutoyo or Brown & Sharp. Starretts are excellent mics and hold their accuracy, but three of the four I own have spindles that turn harder than I like, and they didn't start that way. Doesn't affect their performance, I just don't care for it.

Good mics will measure down to .0001" and that is useful if you are doing aerospace machining like I did, but really isn't necessary for what we do here, though swagers and die makers will tell you otherwise.

Whatever you get, take good care of it. Keep the measuring faces clean and NEVER clamp it onto the work piece tightly, when the thimble stops turning, stop. You will bend the frame, trust me. If you are concerned with accuracy, get a couple of precision ground gauge pins from Enco or MSC to check the readings.

[Green Frog]

I went through this question about 10 years ago when I took some machine shop courses. The 436 series of Starrett mikes is sort of a standard to work from, but they come in all variations as well (most of which affect new price, but surprisingly are generally ignored when selling used.) They all are marked to measure at least to the nearest one thousandth but may also be marked to measure to the ten thousandth by a vernier type system. Also, they come with and without a ratcheting thimble (to consistently tighten each time) and with or without a lock to hold a reading in place. A controversial feature is carbide faces on the measuring surfaces ~ some people love their wear resistance, some say they chip too easily. Learning to use and read these instruments is a task in itself... the average person will be accurate to the nearest 4 or 5 thousandths until they develop a touch for it. BTW, I think having a 0-1" and a 1-2" mike make sense, and with the 1-2" you will probably get a 1" standard that is useful for checking the full measure of the 0-1" as well.

With all of the above, if you don't already have one, you shouldn't be without a 4 or 6" dial caliper for rough work... that will usually get you to within a couple of thousandths which is where you need to be for most applications, and you will find yourself using it quite often - I know I do! Since the accuracy and precision are not quite to the same level, for reloading duties I usually use a Chinese set marketed by Lyman (stainless, not plastic) and on my workbench next to the lathe, I like to keep my Mitotuyo 6" set.

Froggie

[762 shooter]

I have the Lyman stainless caliper and like you said I use it all the time.

I thought a Micrometer might be inherently more accurate because of the vernier reading.

I could be inherently wrong.

762

[John Boy]

First of all, are we talking about calipers or micrometers? I believe calipers ...
I have 3 manual readout stainless steel and 2 digital read calipers for the range box and in the reloading room. All were purchased at Harbor Freight. Each caliper was checked for accuracy using ISO Certified pin gauges - 0.xxx diameters. The caliper read outs were exactly the same as the pin gauge diameters.

[Moonman]

All reloaders can benefit from owning;

6" Vernier Calipers, I prefer DIAL to Electronic.

0-1" Micrometer MANUAL over Electronic.

A set of Steel Pin Size Gages.(to check revolver chamber sizes mostly)

[762 shooter]

I am asking about micrometers.

I have the above mentioned dial caliper by Lyman.

762

[cbrick]

I don't agree that a battery micrometer is a bad thing. I bought the Mitutoyo 0-1 digital micrometer and the 6" digital caliper as a set many years ago and battery life is exceptional. The micrometer owners manual states that battery life is 8 hours a day for a full year as in a machine shop. My experience with it is at least that good though I don't use it 8 hours a day the battery lasts at least 3 or 4 years. The caliper not quite that long but I use it much more.

Most of the time the caliper is all you need but the micrometer is invaluable too. I can't imagine my loading bench without either one.

Rick

[WHITETAIL]

+1 With Moonman.

[MBTcustom]

Starrett has lost my business forever I'm afraid. I used to think that they were serious contenders with B&S and Mitutoyo, but in the last 5 years, not one stinking thing I have ordered from them other than a 4" precision square has been made correctly. I have three digital .00005 micrometers, none of which seem to like any battery that is used in them, and the 2-3" lost .001 in the middle of its range. I have telescopeing gauges that lose their points, I have tap handles that are made so off center that they cannot be used, I have travel indicators that cannot repeat within .001, it goes on and on. I'm a little slow but I ain't dense, no more Starrett!
I think Mitutoyo is making the best micrometer on the market at the present time.

By the way, I happen to be auctioning off my #1 B&S micrometer in swapping and selling, along with a lit of other juicy goodies. You might see if you want to bid on them.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?176035-Brown-amp-Sharp-micrometer-brass-lube-solder-and-MBT-gascheck-maker-Auction-for-Ken

[MBTcustom]

Not to argue with moonman, but I build precision bearings and must be able to measure a diameter +- .000025 with a micrometer. If you get a good one and use the friction thimble, you can repeat these measurements. There is a certain amount of "feel" to it, but I can depend on any three machinists in the shop to measure the same part with the same mic and get the same readings. Just like I can depend on these guys to measure +-.0003 with their calipers. If you use good tools, and you practice, the finest measurements are obtainable with hand tools. I know this is true, because every bit of our work is checked with a computer operated measuring machine that is certified to .00002 accuracy, and our work passes........most of the time.8-)

[craig61a]

FWIW, I get by just fine using a cheap 'General' brand I bought at True Value.

[Moonman]

goodsteel,

The average JOE has not developed and most probably will not develope, THE FEEL for reading .0001 on a Mic.

My Starrett instruments were manufactured close to 50 tears ago, another era in time and craftsmanship.

[MBTcustom]

another era in time and craftsmanship.
Boy, you ain't just wistlin' Dixie. They used to be the best. Sad really.

[LEADHOPPER]

Moonman,

I would have to agree with that. The old Starrett instruments were and are some of the best machinist tools that could be bought. The Starrett of today I wouldn't give you the time of day for. Starrett used to be made in the good old USA. Not so much anymore. Most of the Starret is now made in china. Why would I pay for the Starrett name to own a piece of equipment made in china. In my eyes Brown and Sharp and Mitutoya is the way to go if you have to have tools that do what they are suppose to do. I also know that when you started in the business, anyone with Mitutoya could be throw out of the shop for owning a tool made in Japan. Times have changed and so has the quality of Starrett tools.

LH

[uscra112]

Was in metrology almost all my career. Have a dozen mikes, all old. Starrett, Brown & Sharpe, Mitutoyo, you name it. Old Starretts are good, but the name alone brings the prices up a lot. My "Lord Chancellor" is a Brown & Sharpe, but this is the one I reach for most often when I'm at the lathe, because it's easier on my old eyes. evilBay will yield you a Fowler like this for as little as $40.00, (gently used). Older ones are Swiss made, too. No batteries, digit wheels read to a thou, vernier reads to a tenth, no worries. 56804

[HangFireW8]

First of all, are we talking about calipers or micrometers? I believe calipers ...
I have 3 manual readout stainless steel and 2 digital read calipers for the range box and in the reloading room. All were purchased at Harbor Freight. Each caliper was checked for accuracy using ISO Certified pin gauges - 0.xxx diameters. The caliper read outs were exactly the same as the pin gauge diameters.

The 436 series are micrometers, but the subject of calipers also came up. Personally I would prefer fewer, higher quality instruments, but I have no complaints, most I received from my Grandfather, a tool&die maker.

Having both is really best for reloading, but whatever one has, you need to check calibration. I agree with pin gauges, or other standard that can be used to verify the accuracy of your measuring instrument. I suggest getting one close to the values you are most likely to be measuring- such as .300" or .308" for example, or whatever caliber floats your boat.

For the OP, here's a link to Starrett's page on the 436 series. As you can see, they come in both .001" and .0001" varieties.

http://www.gagesgalore.com/Starrett/Micrometers_Outside_436.htm

HF

[casterofboolits]

I'm looking for replacement set of mics too. Mine are pushing five decades. Bought in 1965 and were my "wheel mics" for dressing grinding wheels for grinding shapes in split die buttons. Now they just wire cut them.

I sold my tool box off when I moved into management. I wish I had kept one of the good sets.
Got a couple buddies looking for a good used set for me.

[Reg]

goodsteel,

The average JOE has not developed and most probably will not develope, THE FEEL for reading .0001 on a Mic.

My Starrett instruments were manufactured close to 50 tears ago, another era in time and craftsmanship.



Yup !!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I prefer a mechanical digital 1" mic for cast boolit measuring.
I've used a cheapo chinese one and replaced it with a Mitutoyo,
Honestly for cast boolit work, the chinese is fine, IMHO.
They are capable of measuring down to .0001"
I really only trust my capability to .0005"

I'm sure the electronic digital mics are fine, I just prefer mechanical.
Jon

[deltaenterprizes]

Believe it or not the cheap mics from Harbor Freight are OK for the reloading room and a set of 3 are $30 on sale now. I used 1"-2" at work for my first year or so until I ran across some good deals on used tools and it went through Katrina and still works!

[smokeywolf]

Definitely get a mike that can resolve .0001"-.0002"; not going to cost much more and better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
I have older Starrett electronic mikes and somewhat newer Mitutoyo electronics (Quickmike). The older Starretts have the traditional thimble and barrel markings so that if the battery goes flat you can read them in the traditional manner. The Mitutoyo Quickmike is more for tighter tolerance work such as goodsteal describes.
In spite of the features of the older Starrett and the remarkably advanced features of the Mitutoyo, I usually use my older Brown & Sharpe or Tesa "Digit-Mike".
56821
They are mechanical-digital, direct reading, friction thimble, and resolve .0002". I have a couple of the B&S 0-1" and a 1-2". Also use a couple of the Tesa "Tesamaster" models going up to 4 inches that use a combination of mechanical-digital and traditional vernier divisions on the thimble to resolve down to .0001.
Brown & Sharpe and Tesa are one-in-the-same and both are Swiss made.

The 0-1" Digit-Mikes can sometimes be found of the flea-bay for less than $100.00 with case and wrench; that's where I acquired mine.

If I could have only one mike it would be a Brown & Sharpe or Tesa.

smokeywolf

[MikeS]

I have 2 0-1" mikes, a TESA that's a mechanical digital micrometer that's probably 50 years old or so, but I don't really care for it's friction thimble along with the more standard ratchet, makes the whole barrel kind of on the long side, and my normal 'go-to' mike is a Starrett #216 (also a mechanical digital mike) that's ancient, we got it back in 1954 when we bought one of our companies, it was in a box with tooling to make one part for one of the sewing machines we manufactured, and I'm sure that it had been in that box for at least 5,10, or more years before we got it in 1954, but it was kept in good storage conditions, so there's no rust anywhere on it, and it's as tight as the day it was bought, whenever that actually was! As others have said, stuff made back then were made much better than they are made today. While Starrett still makes the #216 I'm sure the one I have will outlast one made today!

I think more folks tend to use either digital or dial calipers these days, simply because they are quicker to use than a micrometer, and in todays society speed is everything, which isn't always a good thing!

[dromia]

Well as an anti digital analogue person I have to say that I am a convert to quality digital mics and calipers.

For most of my life I have used quality vernier calipers and mics believing these to be the most accurate due to their mechanical simplicity.

However failing eyesight a couple of years ago meant that I needed something I could read, I spent some time talking with all the machinist, gunsmith people I new and they talked me into buying quality digital. So against my better judgement I sprung for a Mitutoyo digital caliper and micrometer. Two years later I'm glad I did. They have been spot on consistently to my reference inch, batteries are still going strong and they are so easy to read, they also feel quality. A tad pricey at over 100 quid each but I think worth the money.

[Shiloh]

Mines Chinese with a Lyman label on it. Measured the same as a Mitutoyo the time I checked it. Measured machine dowel pins exactly.
O Mitutoyo or Starrett?? No. But more than adequate for my purposes.

Shiloh

[smokeywolf]

Forgot to mention the most accurate of the traditional Starrett mikes; the 221 series. Nowadays referred to a the T221XL. According to Starrett's catalog, this mike is still made in the U.S.

smokeywolf

[Willbird]

My favorite 0-1 is an Etalon....similar to Brown & Sharp but the barrel is marked in .0005....and then you only have .0005 worth of .0001 vernier....you do not have to roll the mic as far to read .0001.

I think every reloader should have. 0-1 mic....and 4"-6" caliper too.....calipers stink for dia measurement .....even though Mitutoyo LCD calipers may be fairly accurate on dia I'd bet good money if we handed out a handful of gage block stacks and had a group measure them blindly the micrometer crowd would win the measuring contest :-). .0001 are not NEEDED for reloading.....but I disagree that reloaders cannot learn the feel of a mic well enough to use the feature. And the resale value of a .0001 mic with carbide faces is higher if you decide to trade up. On digital mics electronic or mechanical.......I do not have innate trust of either type......I use the graduations and ignore the numbers.....if I had to pick I would take LCD digital.....again for enhanced resale value.

[warf73]

All reloaders can benefit from owning;

6" Vernier Calipers, I prefer DIAL to Electronic.

0-1" Micrometer MANUAL over Electronic.

A set of Steel Pin Size Gages.(to check revolver chamber sizes mostly)

I agree with this 100%