View Full Version : Blue Prints from Buffalo Arms
Red River Rick
06-30-2007, 10:22 AM
I was wondering if anyone out there has purchased or used any of the shop blueprints from Buffalo Arms for the Win. 1885 or the Rem. RB.
I'm curious as to how detailed these blueprints actually are. Are they complete or do they contain just a few dimensions for some of the major parts? My intent is to attempt to build a 1885 from scratch and make some parts for the Rem RB.
If anybody can shed some light, it would be greatly appreciatted.
02-03-2008, 10:01 AM
Yeah! What he said!
I'm REALLY interested in scratch-building a RB for edumacational purposes, and find the prices a bit steep to find out if there is any info is missing.
I have a set of Hi Wall prints. Haven't had the time to do anything with them but they look very complete. Steve
Red River Rick
02-04-2008, 07:29 AM
Save your money. I did obtain a set of the Rem RB blueprints, and after considerable examination, some of the reciever dimensions are not included.
My intent was to redraw/transfer these drawings onto my CAD system and end up with a wire-frame and solid image. I was hoping to machine (via CNC) some of the components for the two "RB Smokeless" receivers that I have. Problem is, these drawings are for the "1 1/2" Sporter, which is different from the "Smokeless" & Pedersolli receivers that I have. Although, making a #1 1/2 Sporter would probably suffice as well.
Those Hi-Wall drawings would be interesting. If you ever decide to part with them, or copies of them, drop me line.
02-04-2008, 12:09 PM
Very interesting.. You couldn't infer from the other dimensions? If you were CADding the drawings, you should be able to come up with what's drawn. Going to a smokeless design from there seems to me a (I almost said "Simple" here) matter of calculating the pressures with smokeless powder and strengthening key components.
Ok, so don't get the idea that I know what I'm talking about. That's what the whole excercise is going to be for me. :-)
02-04-2008, 05:02 PM
I would suggest NOT buying them from Buffalo Arms. I got my copies for $10 from ASSRA. There are 14 pages of 11" x 17" paper. It includes drawings for the No. 1 and No. 1-1/2. It also includes several variations, such as the straight lower tang and curved (pistol grip) lower tang versions. Also included the double trigger version. Also included an interesting version that had the trigger guard swing down, while cocking the hammer and opening the block.
While there I also bought (for about $10 more) all the articles they had published on the rolling block. One was a 7-part article on rebuilding the rolling block into an engraved beauty. Well worth the money. Contact the person below.
Rudi Prusok" <email@example.com
> Dear Harryo: I can make a copy of that seven-part rolling block
> restoration for $10 ppd and get it off in the mail to you fortwith if
> you'll give me your name and a mailing address. Send a check made out
> to the ASSRA or send cash.
> Two RB articles in previous journals might be of interest to you:
> "The Remington Rolling Block" by Tom Schiffer, 3 pp. in Vol. 46 No.
> 5. General history
> "Remington RB 7x57, Junker of Shooter?". Robert Dorenwend, 2 pp. of
> considerations, with bibliography of books also in the archives
> There also are other articles in the shooting literature but I don't
> know what you might already have or whether you're interested in the
> functioning or history.
> The Frank de Haas book "SS Rifles and Actions" has chapters on every
> model with scaled drawings of the actions. I can loan that for $5 ppd
> but it's also still available for $28 from Frank's son. The
> dimensioned drawings of the No. 1 (including SST, DST, and underlever
> conversion) are available for $10 also.
> Rudi Prusok
> ASSRA Archives
> 625 Pine Street
> Marquette, MI 49855
> (906) 225-1828
02-04-2008, 05:28 PM
That ASSRA Archive is an incredible resource - not just Single-Shots, but all aspects of firearms - and Rudi has done a great job with it. When I had to "skinny down" some awhile back, I sent ten or a dozen U-Haul boxes of books, catalogs, etc., etc., to him; and he has bailed me out many times, too, on items I didn't have or couldn't find. Many other members are doing likewise. Rudi is also passing frequently-requested items on to Cornell Publications for their economy-priced reprints; see <www.cornellpubs.com>.
We are now proposing to set up an Archive of reloading tool information - along the same lines - for the Antique Reloading Tool Collectors' ***'n., in consultation with Rudi. Watch our website at <www.antiquereloadingtools.org> after our Annual Meeting in May to see how that develops.
You'd think the NRA would have long since been doing something like this; but they are totally uninterested. The museum complex at Cody, WY has a large archive, including factory records from most of the "big names"; but I understand access is limited to "serious researchers", properly credentialed, and copies (like "factory letters") can get expensive. Another good Archive is at the J.M. Davis Firearms Museum in Claremore, OK; Chuck Suydam transferred the bulk of his library to them, several years back. Access is open to anyone, and a copier is available, but they don't send stuff out, you have to go there to see it
02-05-2008, 09:57 AM
I have nothing but the highest opinion of Rudi, based on my dealings with him. I am afraid that I do not have the same opinion of ASSRA. I tried to register at the ASSRA forums some time ago and the forum moderator rejected my application saying that I was not the kind of person they wanted on their site. I used to be a member, but after I was rejected, I let it lapse.
I guess that means that the people here have very low standards, seeing as how I can post freely here. Actually, I suspect that one of the posters here (who also seems to be fairly high up on the ASSRA chain) put the kibosh on me since we have crossed swords before. We disagree on the 1,422 x Bhn theory.
02-05-2008, 10:41 AM
Harry Eales from Jolly Old England, A member here, bought a set for the Borchardt. It was less than a help. Save your coin,,
IIRC in a thread at ASSRA the man that drafted those sets came on and defended his work. But in the end he admitted he did a less than stellar job.
I have nothing but the highest opinion of Rudi, based on my dealings with him. I am afraid that I do not have the same opinion of ASSRA. I tried to register at the ASSRA forums some time ago and the forum moderator rejected my application saying that I was not the kind of person they wanted on their site.
I had this same problem recently. I joined ASSRA but was repeatedly rejected as a new member on their internet forum.
After three tries I sent an email to their web administrator describing the problem. He replied that they were trying to be aggressive in filtering out accounts who appeared to only be joining to spam the site and that my email address looked like a potential spammer to the person doing the filtering. He did rectified the account situation immediately based on my email and I have not had problems since then.
02-05-2008, 12:39 PM
I originally bought the drawings with the idea that I could make a rolling block from the castings kits that are available from a few sources. For that, the drawings are more than adequate. I did decide that it was beyond my capabilities, at least at this time, however. I am trying to learn with my lathe and mill, though.
I went back to look at them again with the thought of one of the original posters; creating a wire frame model for CNC machining. I don't know if you can do that with these drawings without at least some guessing. It looks like the drawings start with castings and dimension the final machined dimensions from them. I looked at the receiver in particular. There are no dimensions for the radius at the top and bottom, for example. However, I also do not know if there are any better drawings out there, from anybody.
I have been to the museum in Cody and noted the display they had with "comparison parts". They did not have drawings back then. They had a set of master parts that were used to compare the parts a person made against. It either passed or failed according to comparison with that, not a drawing.
ktw: I thought it might be the same thing. I contacted the "contact us" person at the ASSRA webpage after I was automatically rejected. That is when I got the snippy e-mail saying they did not want my kind.
Red River Rick
02-05-2008, 09:07 PM
There are no dimensions for the radius at the top and bottom, for example. However, I also do not know if there are any better drawings out there, from anybody.
That was the biggest problem with the drawings I obtained. No Radius Dimension. Yeah, you could probably "fudge" some numbers to make it work. If that would be the case, then I may just as well design my own receiver/action.
I'll try to obtain some drawings from some of the sources mentioned in one of the previous posts. Hopefully, one drawing may have the missing "Radius" dimensions.
Thanks for all the input gentlemen.
02-06-2008, 01:11 AM
The most approriate diction in "ASSRA"......
given that (like the recent re-make of "Planet of the Apes").....you will all
....BOW YOUR HEADS.
I reckon it means pay your dues ....stfu.
I've got a roller milled in half,
Fixin' to do the same to an '85
Does this not seem to be the better "Print".......?
Hell,....hard copy, ...and correct "Tool Point"...all due respect to Manitoba, from a moved Albertan, there.
Don't seem that challenging to me boys,....
these ain'yt guns,.....see?
Old hammers, triggers, knockoffs,....whatever.....it DON'T matter,
long's we have decent ( reasonably rough) hard parts.
Scarce ones come through my little emporium.....try Merwyn Hulbert, ...wind guitar spring wire.
What the F88888 , is the problem here ?
This (last I heard) is the USA
02-06-2008, 01:14 AM
Re -read this....
There is indeed, ...a lotta' smoke, ...bein blown up a LOT of gazoos.
gimme a break
02-06-2008, 01:18 AM
Just figure out / build the Damn things.
Long ways offa' rocket science here, boys.
02-06-2008, 06:20 AM
Yep. You're right. It's NOT rocket science. People have done this before. Rocket science deals with things that nobody has done, experienced, and sometimes thought hard about doing.
I however, don't have one to take apart.
I've never disassembled a Rolling Block.
I'm not sure I completely understand the action.
If I design my own, I'd like to be reasonably sure it's a safe design.
I have heard that overcharged RB's have a tendancy to pop the hammer back, thus allowing the breech block to open. I'd like to avoid that situation.
Personally, I tend to like to have a good idea as to what I'm doing prior to doing it. That way I keep all my appendages in place. Reading, studying and asking questions is a good way for me to do that.
My plan is to build my first one out of aluminum. I have the ability to cast all the parts from wooden patterns. This will allow me to have some experience and see what potential issues might come up in machining the next one, which my intention would be to chamber for .22 LR. If that goes well, I MIGHT, after doing the math, go to .223 Remington. I'm still undecided due to lack of experience.
So, no offense but do you see any smoke there?
Red River Rick
02-06-2008, 06:20 AM
That's one trait I like about your posts, right to the point and no beating around the "Bush".
Your now, Camerican dialect, is sometimes hard to read, but I do get the "Point".
That cut-away receiver would undoubtly be the best source for dimensions, however, I don't have a barrel full of them from which to choose a candidate for that purpose. So I guess I'll have to rely on good old intuition and head banging, forty attempts later.
No problem here in good old "Mooseland", just a minor snag. And no smoke blowin' either, but, if we added some mirror's, we might be able to pull off some pretty good tricks.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.1 Copyright © 2013 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.