newbie questions

[targetshootr]

I finally decided to start casting so I bought a used rcbs pro-melt, a star sizer with dies and punches, a couple of molds are on the way and I rounded up 3 buckets of wheel weights. But first I'd like to ask a question or two. Is it required to make ingots? Seems like an extry step there unless you need to add tin or something. Speaking of which, how do you weigh the melted lead to figure out how much tin will make 2%? I'm chompin at the bit to get going. thx.

[sundog]

"Is it required to make ingots?"

Nope. You can still get an "A" if you melt WWs in your casting pot. However, with all the trash, clips, dirt, dog pee, grease, rocks, razor blades, valve stems, cigarette butts, (got a visual yet?) and what ever else is on them, it is just 'mo betta' to render them in a different pot, stack your ingots, cup cakes, corn ears, or what ever, in a clean, dry place so you can add clean alloy to you casting pot. It just works better that way. Do ya havta? Naw. No one's gonna come to your house and chastise you. sundog

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Welcome to the forum targetshooter.

Cleaning the trash out of the wheel weights is something you probably want to do BEFORE you put the lead into your nice RCBS pro melt. You might want to check out something like I've done in this post for an inexpensive and effective smelting solution:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=6385

And the results of how it worked:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=6411

Hope this helps,

Dave

[targetshootr]

Ingots it is. I went to a plumbers supply today to see about a furnace which was going to run $300 but he said a turkey fryer would be cheaper so I went to Home Depot and bought an outdoor cooker for $45 and a propane tank for the same price. Then got an 8 qt dutch oven at Gander Mountain for $30 and it sounds like it needs a shield on the outside to retain heat.
So, you pick the trash out of the ww, fill the pot with them and turn on the heat? Does this require a thermometer? Been reading the Lyman manual too but haven't seen this step mentioned. The pictorials you guys have made are excellent. Stir often, use flux if necessary, skim off trash, get a shiny molten surface and pour into cupcake pans from Walmart, $3 ea.

[SharpsShooter]

Ingots it is. I went to a plumbers supply today to see about a furnace which was going to run $300 but he said a turkey fryer would be cheaper so I went to Home Depot and bought an outdoor cooker for $45 and a propane tank for the same price. Then got an 8 qt dutch oven at Gander Mountain for $30 and it sounds like it needs a shield on the outside to retain heat.
So, you pick the trash out of the ww, fill the pot with them and turn on the heat? Does this require a thermometer? Been reading the Lyman manual too but haven't seen this step mentioned. The pictorials you guys have made are excellent. Stir often, use flux if necessary, skim off trash, get a shiny molten surface and pour into cupcake pans from Walmart, $3 ea.


You are pretty well set from the sound of things. No you don't need a thermometer for the smelting (cleaning) operation . Be warned that if you use tin cupcake pans you will not get the lead out. Be sure to use steel, aluminum or cast iron for your ignot moulds.

:coffee:

[woody1]

Stir often, use flux if necessary, skim off trash, get a shiny molten surface and pour into cupcake pans from Walmart, $3 ea.

Welcome to the real bullet crowd targetshooter. You will want to flux and flux often when rendering your wheelweights. It definitely helps to separate the trash from the good stuff. Flux can be anything from motor oil to sawdust. I generally use sawdust (dry) when casting and motor oil is the first flux I use when smelting and after I've got most of the clips out, follow with a sawdust flux before pouring into the aluminum muffin pans. Just the way I do it. YMMV Regards, Woody

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Stir often, use flux if necessary, skim off trash, get a shiny molten surface and pour into cupcake pans from Walmart, $3 ea.

Be careful of the nice, shiney, "appear to be steel" pans at walmart for three bucks. I found out the hard way these are actually tin coated and had ot beat the muffin forms and ingots out of the pans, then smelt again to get the last of the pan off.

I think if you're going to buy muffin pans, you're better off at yard sales, economy shops etc, where the things are fifty cents and if they're rusty, so much the better.

Dave

[targetshootr]

Thanks for all the tips. I'm a little leary of screwing up without a pro around when I get going. Things like how much flux to add and when, how to figure 2% tin, and can you add ww as the pot gets low or should you wait till it's about empty?

The muffin pans say 'commercial grade steel bakeware' so here's hoping.

[wills]

[QUOTE=targetshootr] it sounds like it needs a shield on the outside to retain heat.
QUOTE]

Nice, but you can get by fine without it.

[44woody]

Targetshooter theres a number of things you can use as an ingot mould when I first started I would cut the bottom of a aluminum pop can about 2 or 3in hi then pour them not quite full of clean lead then I got the cupcake tins and then I finely broke down and got myself 2 lee ingot moulds FLUXES can be any thing from saw dust ,motor oil , candle wax , bees wax (which I like the best ) some stuff called Marvelux but I would not recommend it unless you really know what you are doing it can be dangerous if you put the spoon back in that you use to stir your pot with unless you let it float on top of the lead for a few minutes to evaporate the moisture that has collected on the spoon (water and moltant lead = explosion ) bad for you it will leave a scar on you as fast as you can blink an eye never wear nylon clothes while you are casting if by chance you splatter some lead on you it will melt the nylon (bad burns ) never when melting wheel weights never use an aluminum pot I had one bust on me when I first started to cast a longtime before I had a computer to ask questions on I was lucky that I had went in the house to get a drink when it happened I totaled a used coleman stove that I was using to melt the lead on I hope this helps be safe first have fun and better yet have fun on the range :castmine: 44Woody

[454PB]

For weighing lead and alloys, I use a baby scale that I've had for years. It goes up to 25 lbs., and seems to be quite accurate. I imagine you could get one at Goodwill for a few bucks.

I prefer to alloy in the casting pot. I do my smelting using un-alloyed metal. I might smelt linotype in one session, and wheelweights (with the stick on ones sorted out) in another. When I'm ready to cast, I weigh out the wheelweights (base metal) on the baby scales, then the linotype. My normal mixture is 75% WW and 25% lino. So, for every 10 pounds of wheelweights, I add 2.5 pounds of linotype.

When it comes to adding tin, it's a little more difficult. The best way is to break everything down to ounces to make the math and measuring easier. Assuming pure tin, for each 5 pounds of wheelweights (80 Oz.) you need 1.6 ounces of tin. If you want to get really accurate, use your reloading scales. Most of them only go to 500 grains, and there's 437 grains in an ounce. For larger amounts, just do the mutiplication.

I think most of us are using 50/50 bar solder for tin, which means you have to double the amount to get 2% tin. That would be 3.2 ounces per 5 pounds of wheelweights.

Don't forget that wheelweights have .5% tin in them already, just to confuse you some more:-D

[Dale53]

I also use a kitchen scale to weigh lead, WW's, and Linotype. However, for the smaller amounts of tin, you need a more accurate scale. A perfectly good solution to the problem is a small postal scale. They are inexpensive, will weigh up to two lbs in fractions of an ounce. Problem solved, and solved for little money.

It's also handy to keep a small calculator next to the scales to quickly and accuractely determine how much tin to add for the percentage you are looking for.

Dale53

[targetshootr]

Among the things that came with the furnace and sizer and lube is a 4 lb can of Marvelux and a big chunk of wax, or at least it looks like wax. Is there a certain way to add wax in the lead? Not sure how much would be needed if the 8 qt pot is say, 3/4 full. Also have 2, 4 ingot molds that came with it but thought it would take more than that so I got the muffin pans which it turns out are plated in tin. This weekend I'm going to crank it all up and smelt something, ww or pots or maybe me.

[Duckiller]

Targetshooter light the wax when you put it in the pot. If you don't the heat of the melt will light it and you WILL FLINCH and if stirring throw lead all over the place. Do it outside,take your time and relax. Don't think you can over flux, just do it in small amounts several times. Big glob of wax =big fire. Small glob=small fire. small is good. Seriously fluxing is to clean the melt. Start with small amounts of wax, Marvelux or what ever,Stir and if you think it may still be dirty or you are just not sure flux again. In small increments you aren't going to cause problems. If you are not in a hurry your 2 ingot molds should be enough. I melt a similar size pot with one mold. Just have to wait for lead to cool. Duckiller5

[Bass Ackward]

use flux if necessary,


Target shooter,

Use flux if necessary? Oh my Goodness. Flux, flux flux your butt off.

The more you flux now, the less stuff gets into your pot and the less headaches you will have. Most of the time, when I hear about people having problems with irregular flows from clogged spouts and trashy bullets from a bottom pour, I suspect .... margin fluxing as the root of the real problem.

My RCBS pot was purchased in 1983 and the spout was cleaned for the first time two years ago. I have it on the schedule for March, 2033 the next time around.

[jar-wv]

I'm sure you've already done this, but if not go thru the past topics. Theres a wealth of info thats easy to find. I use a vegetable type scale for weighing my ingots for alloying. The only thing I've added so far is 2% tin. I'm only casting handgun boolits and hope to use them for hunting in 44 and 45 Colt. I use 50/50 rolls of solder. The easiest way I found to calculate quantities, I unrolled a full roll and measured total lenth, then made up a spread sheet showing how many inches to add per oz and per lb of WW. Now all I have to do is weigh my ingots (pop cans with tops cut off) then go to spread sheet and see how many inches of solder to add. I always use the same brand of solder and if I switched brands I would probably measure the lenth of roll again to make sure info was same.

jar

[wills]

This is helpful with your proportions, if you don’t still have your slide rule. It takes a while to load.

http://www.taswegian.com/SRTP/JavaSlide/JavaSlide.html

[targetshootr]

I may print this to refer to when I go at it which may be today. I took the muffin pans back and got the standard kind which are probably Teflon coated. Will those cause problems?

[wills]

The teflon may give off poison gas heated to lead melting temperature.

If you have to have something RIGHT NOW try some cast iron cornbread muffin, breadstick pans.

Regarding the virtues of rusty ingot molds.


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=2809&highlight=leave+rain

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=31181&postcount=7

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=31186&postcount=9

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=31388&postcount=14

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=6344&highlight=rusty+muffin

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=29467&postcount=20

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=2051&highlight=rusty+muffin

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=15158&postcount=10

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=1375&highlight=rusty+muffin

[targetshootr]

Found some alum muffin pans and melted a batch of ww to get my feet wet. It took awhile to get molten cause the heat was too low but eventually got it. Without knowing how it was supposed to look I added some Marvelux and stirred and skimmed and finally ladled it into the pans. Got black stuff on top that I wasn't sure was lead or dirt but I'll try to post a pic later. I may have the first boolit gold-plated since it will have cost several hundred.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

The black stuff on top was probably dirt. Try using sawdust as flux and give it time to pull the dirt out of the lead. Also, scrap around the edge, then filter using a slotted stainless steel spoon before pouring into your molds.

hope this helps,

Dave

[targetshootr]

That'll help, thanks. Should they be smelted again? I poured about a dozen and the bottoms weren't as dirty.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b233/targetshootr/Im002276.jpg

[454PB]

I suggest you use parafin, gease, sawdust, oil, etc. to flux while smelting. Save the Marvelux for use when you don't have good ventilation. Parafin wax and such are relatively cheap and make a lot of smoke. Marvelux isn't cheap, but makes no smoke.

The ingots in your picture are fine as they are, no need to remelt until you are ready to cast.

[targetshootr]

Went through 3, five gallon buckets today in 4 hours which filled a milk crate with ingots. It was hot and back-breaking fun. Not sure how the next step is going to go but I hope it's enjoyable too. My favortie part is skimming off the steel brackets. Weird, huh. Thanks for everyones help.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Sounds like you're getting there if you were able to process that much WW in that amount of time. Have you weighed your ingots to see what yield you're getting on your wheel weights? I think your casting bucket is just about the right size.

BTW, something to think about:

A cart can be a real handy thing for getting your casting setup in and out of the garage, etc. I learned this from rbstern after seeing his setup, so cannot take credit for it.

Regards,

Dave

[targetshootr]

A good idear cause setting up and putting up added 30 minutes. The buckets were about only 3/4 full but once the gas was working right it went fairly smooth. After each potfull was finished I picked through more ww and while they were cooking, the ingots cooled enough to empty. The round ingots go 2 to 2 3/8 lbs and the mini-loaf ones a little more.

Btw, what do you do with the stick-on lead? And should you spray something in the pans to help the ingots fall out?

This is todays output not including a few still stuck to the pan.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b233/targetshootr/Im002300.jpg

[454PB]

Kinda like making cookies, huh?

The stick on weights are usually pure lead (or close to it). I keep them seperate for use either for barrel slugging tasks or to blended with linotype. I don't shoot black powder, but those that do are always looking for pure lead. It won't hurt anything if you get them mixed in with the clip types, except for the fact that they have that double sided styrafoam tape that burns black and stinky.

If your ingots are sticking in the muffin pans, it means they are coated steel and the lead is trying to solder to the pan. The best solution is to use iron or aluminum. Some high temperature spray on moly lube might prevent the sticking.