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A pause for the COZ
12-18-2012, 11:58 AM
I picked one up a little while ago. As per normal, when I buy things with out really knowing anything about them. I get to pay for some knowledge.:killingpc
I had hoped that it would shoot 32 S&W longs. But of course as I have learned they shoot 32 long rim Fire. D'oh!!!

What are my options for this rifle and possible associated costs ( ball park)?

Worst case it is just a wall hanger.

Reg
12-18-2012, 12:13 PM
Leave it as a wall hanger, been there , done that.

I'll Make Mine
12-18-2012, 06:00 PM
As I recall, the .32 Long rimfire is dimensionally the same as the original loads for .32 Long Colt; you can convert the breech block to centerfire or get a replacement one to keep the original unaltered (recommended), get a heeled boolit mold, and load the .32 Long Colt cases with black powder and you'll duplicate the original ballistics. I wouldn't think any other conversion is a good idea -- replace the breech block with a centerfire version, and you can even switch back if .32 Long rimfire ammunition makes a comeback... ;)

A pause for the COZ
12-19-2012, 07:04 PM
As I recall, the .32 Long rimfire is dimensionally the same as the original loads for .32 Long Colt; you can convert the breech block to centerfire or get a replacement one to keep the original unaltered (recommended), get a heeled boolit mold, and load the .32 Long Colt cases with black powder and you'll duplicate the original ballistics. I wouldn't think any other conversion is a good idea -- replace the breech block with a centerfire version, and you can even switch back if .32 Long rimfire ammunition makes a comeback... ;)

Where might I obtain a replacement breech block in center fire and some .32 long colt cases? I will have to do some research on heeled bullets. casting is not a problem..;)

I'll Make Mine
12-20-2012, 08:52 PM
A heeled bullet is just one that's outside case diameter on the main body, but small behind that to fit inside the case. The bullets used in .22 LR rounds are classic examples (and NAA sells bullets for their cap & ball mini revolver that appear to be heeled .22 bullets that have never been seated).

Where to get a replacement breech block? Well, it appears this isn't the action I thought it was; the Favorite was only ever sold in rimfire, and while it would be safe to convert and fire black powder only (it's the same load that was in the original rimfire cases, after all), there's the concern that someone, decades from now, might try to fire .32 Long Colt with a modern smokeless load. There's a vaguely similar action that was sold in both rimfire and centerfire, and can be pretty easily converted to fire a number of modern rounds, but the only modern round that really ought to be used in the Favorite is .22 S, L, LR rimfire -- and converting would require a rebarrel or reline and modification of the breech block (rims are different diameters, so the firing pin has to be moved over).

If you're interested, there are a couple pages I round relative to gunsmithing the Favorite:

http://www.wisnersinc.com/additional_info/Gunsmithing_Stevens_favorite.htm
http://www.nrvoutdoors.com/FIRST%20SHOT/FIRST%20SHOT.htm

It looks like the simplest way to be able to shoot your Favorite is to get some of the Dixie Gun Works "everlasting" .32 Rimfire substitute cases (http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_101_287&products_id=8154); they use a .22 rimfire power load (for a concrete nailer) and a light lead bullet -- a round ball or buckshot, by preference -- like the Hammond Game Getter only in a .32 Rimfire chamber. A handful of these and a pocket full of shot and power loads and you could spend a day plinking for not much more cost than shooting a modern .22 LR.

Marvin S
12-25-2012, 08:58 PM
I converted mine to 32SW long, with lite loads it works fine and I shot a monster ground hog with it last summer. What I done wont be recommend by others and I am not telling you to do it, but as a adult and free to make my own decision's it has worked great for me. I find it no different than loading smokeless powder in antique lever and single shot rifles. Just keep the pressures low.

crow531
01-31-2013, 01:53 AM
Is this an extra barrel if it is then you should be able to experiment with it. If you used a 32S&W Long chamber reamer it might eliminate the problem of heeled bullets. You would still have to get another breech block to convert to center fire and they seem much harder to come by then barrels, (money)? You would this have to use black powder or very light loads. It would never be equal to a modern varmit rifle but may be close to an old English or European Rook rifle.

pietro
02-01-2013, 10:54 AM
I picked one up a little while ago. As per normal, when I buy things with out really knowing anything about them. I get to pay for some knowledge.:killingpc
I had hoped that it would shoot 32 S&W longs. But of course as I have learned they shoot 32 long rim Fire. D'oh!!!

What are my options for this rifle and possible associated costs ( ball park)?

Worst case it is just a wall hanger.

From your phrasing, I presume you bought an entire .32RF Favorite rifle, and not just a .32RF Favorite barrel, since one doesn't normally have just a barrel as a wallhanger.

If that's the case, since the value won't be particularly effected, I'd advise converting the existing firing pin from RF to CF (grind the old RF tip away, drill a small hole centrally & use the drill bit shank as the CF firing pin), & then drilling the face of the breechblock with a 2nd hole (centrally) for the new FP tip.

THAT would enable you to fire the rifle (If it's otherwise checked out as OK to shoot) with currently commercially available Winchester .32 Short Colt - THEN (if you want) reload those empties with heeled boolits.

BTW - The last 2-3 issues of RIFLE MAGAZINE (Wolfe Publishing) had Favorite gunsmithing/restoration tutorials w/pics, etc.


.

uscra112
04-17-2013, 05:56 AM
Having actually converted a Model 44 from RF to CF, I can assure you that it's not as simple as it looks. I'd go with the DGW rimfire adaptors and be done with it. A Favorite ain't worth the trouble, IMHO. A very weak action.

KCSO
04-17-2013, 09:52 AM
I have done both centerfire conversions and re lined them to 22. Both are an option. Re Lining will run from $125.00 to 200.00 depending on the area and Breech block conversion to center fire will be about the same. I am relining a 1915 Favorite right now. The biggest factor will be what you want to spend and what shape the rest of the gun is in. is the action tight pins worn, rust covered, stock work?

Bent Ramrod
04-17-2013, 05:51 PM
I have fired the .38 Rim Fire adaptors in a Remington #2 using empty .22 Short cases as primers with the shell filled with black powder and the Ideal 37583 dropped into the barrel ahead of the shell. Safety glasses are a must and one shouldn't be surprised if one feels the occasional burning particle on one's face when firing a shot. I think these adaptors were envisioned mainly for pistols, which are fired well away from one's face, rather than rifles where one is snuggled up to the breech. The adaptors are expensive, and the rims don't last long where the primer shell goes in. The breeching of the Favorite is not as good as the Rolling Block, so I can only imagine these effects would be worse in your .32.

If you really have to fire the rifle, the Old Western Scrounger had, last I checked, a new lot of the Brazil manufactured .32 RF, both Short and Long. The price is outrageous, but if curiosity must be sated, this is the cheapest way to go in the long run.

The canards about the inaccuracy, misfires and general worthlessness of the Brazilian .32 RF cartridges are all over the Net, but I have not experienced any of them myself, and I have shot up at least 6 boxes of Longs myself and seen a couple more shot up. (These were the old Navy Arms imported stuff at the old, low price of $27 a box.) The cartridges are poor shooters in the ringed and pitted barrels that are the common lot of the junkers I encounter, but one of these, a Stevens Tip-Up, shoots rather well with them even so. If a gun has a pristine barrel, they can be quite accurate at 50 or 60 yards. I have seen a friend's Smith & Wesson #2 shoot them very accurately for a couple cylinderfuls, and after cleaning, shoot them well again, and an acquaintance's as-new Marlin .32 Rim-or-Center lever action shot them as well as a 39A shoots .22 Long Rifles.

Chev. William
08-25-2013, 11:03 PM
I also have a pair of Stevens favorites, both 1894 series, one came with .32 Long RF Barrel, and the second I bought a separate .25 Stevens RF barrel along with a number of spares and replacement parts.

My .25 Stevens Chambered barrel slugs .248" bore and .252" groove diameters.
Added 20131023: I have a newer .25 Stevens barrel that slugs .246" Bore and .251" Groove diameters.
My .32 Long RF chambered barrel slugs .299" bore and .305" Groove diameters.

I intend to rebuild them with stronger Alloy steels for the screws and pins and convert two spare Breech blocks to CF use, and keep two as RF use.

On another Cast Boolit Forum, I described my research and reasoning for my choices.

I have found source methods for .25 Stevens replacement CF cases and for .32 Long Colt CF cases so the use as CF rifles will be possible.
My research also indicates the .25ACP cartridge is similar in dimensions to the .25 Stevens Short Cartridge and is loaded to similar pressures to the .25 Stevens. It should develop about the same MV, 1000fps to 1100fps, as the original .25 Stevens BP loadings. all three cartridges made the transition to smokeless commercial loadings well before they were discontinued at, or near, the beginning of WW2.
Current .32 Short Colt and .32 Long colt SAMMI pressure limits are lower than the pressures of .22 series RF cartridges. The .22WRF is acceptable in an original Favorite action, the .22WMR is acceptable in a upgraded, strengthened, action.
NO Hot Rodding Loads should be used, stay with moderate loads, either subsonic or marginally supersonic and stay with original or lighter bullets (65gr to 68gr for the .25 and 90gr for the .32).
NOTE: IF the Breech Block is an Iron Casting, it will break rather than bend if overstressed.
NOTE: Writers contemporary to the introduction of the cartridges indicated the .25 Stevens RF was a good Target caliber Off Hand up to 200 yards, and the .32 Long RF was good to about 150 yards.
The Favorite actions went through at least three versions from 1886 until originally discontinued. The 1886, the 1894, and the 1915 versions increased in 'scantlines' as the series progressed with the 1915 action the strongest before a redesigned version was reintroduced lately by Savage as the Model 30.
A stronger design iteration is the Model 44 1/2.
There are current custom 44 1/2 type rifles being made to date.


Best Regards,
Chev. William

arteezy1234
02-24-2016, 04:32 AM
Worst case it is just a wall hanger.
คาสิโนรอยัล (http://royal1688-online.blogspot.com/2016/02/blog-post.html)

A pause for the COZ
02-24-2016, 06:28 AM
For now I just ended up making the best of it. Picked up a few 32lrf cases from Dixie Gun works.
These are the ones that use 22 blanks for primers, some trail boss powder, .310 round balls make for some good squirrel loads.
So at least its not just a wall hanger. its a shooter :smile:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/Kelly2215/100_9932_zpscdrnzgz2.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/Kelly2215/100_9933_zps2wzbnggg.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/Kelly2215/100_9936_zpslh1f6ejc.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/Kelly2215/100_9934_zpsdaqdj5rh.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/Kelly2215/100_9937_zpsptaiscmo.jpg

Chev. William
02-24-2016, 04:57 PM
A pause for the COZ (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?20465-A-pause-for-the-COZ),

For now I just ended up making the best of it. Picked up a few 32lrf cases from Dixie Gun works.
These are the ones that use 22 blanks for primers, some trail boss powder, .310 round balls make for some good squirrel loads.
So at least its not just a wall hanger. its a shooter :smile:

That Rifle looks very nice for its age.
You have not said if it is a '1894' or a '1915' era "Favorite" though.
The 1894 usually has the Breech Block top cut with a 'concave' contour and no markings on the top of the Receiver nor top tang.
The 1915 usually has a Straight top Breech Block and the Top of the Receiver is Roll Marked with 'J. Stevens FAVORITE trademark' in three lines with the Top Tang marked 'Model 1915'.
If yours is actually a "Model 44' type it is in fact about 25% larger in Dimensions than a "Favorite" with the Added Strength that entails.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

fatelk
02-24-2016, 11:02 PM
I have an old Favorite in .25 Stevens Long that I've thought about lining the barrel to .22LR for quite a while. I just haven't done it because I don't feel confident enough to do it myself, and don't want to shell out the money to have someone else do it. I need to do something with it eventually for my kids.

It's pretty beat up and the bore is not pretty from over a century of use, but it's been in the family for most of that century plus, so it's going to stay in the family.

I found a bunch of fired .17WSM brass at the range a while back. I think it would be a rather dumb, waste-of-time kind of project, but I had the idea that maybe I could trim off the neck, drill the right size hole in the base for a primed .22 case, and load it up with some bp and a round ball or something. I just haven't tried it yet, afraid it would be a fool's errand. I expect I'd be ahead to get it lined to .22 instead.

Chev. William
02-25-2016, 06:24 PM
I don't think that would work too well.
the .17 WSM body diameter is .269" and the .25 Stevens body diameter is .276".
The .17 WSM Rim is .066" and the .25 Stevens Rim is about .046" to .050".
The Typical .25 Stevens Chamber is at least .278" and most are worn/Eroded to about .280" -.293" diameter at the Breech End.

.278" - .269" = .009" "Windage" between the.17WSM "Adapter" body and the Chamber wall.

This indicates to me that the .17 WSM would make a poor adapter for use in a .25 Stevens Chamber.
IF the Rim is 2/3 brass case and 1/3 Primer mix; then the Case wall would be about .020" or so thick. .020" x 2 = .040" .269" - .040" = .229" while a .22LR body is .226" diameter: leaving .003" 'Windage' for gasses between the .22LR body and the ID of the "Adapter" modified used .17WSM case.

Please Reconsider the use of Salvaged fired .17 WSM cases as candidates for making "adapters" for your .25 Stevens Rifle.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

fatelk
02-27-2016, 12:50 PM
Thanks for the analysis. It was just a hare-brained thought; I'll chuck that 17WSM brass in the scrap bucket. :)

From measuring and calculating years ago, it looked like I should be able to line the barrel for .22lr and get reliable ignition without modifying the firing pin. Anyone ever bore and line a barrel like this without a lathe? Assuming one is experienced with hand tools and handy at this sort of thing, is it something that's likely to turn out OK? I realize I'd need to modify a drill bit- ideally a piloted bit and weld on an extension. I'd need to find or rent a chamber reamer, and modify the ejector or make a new one.

I never went any further on it because while it seemed like a project I could do, it also sounds pretty involved with the limited tools I have. I know I would be better off to pay a professional to do it, but just can't justify spending significantly more than the old gun is worth, out of the very limited family budget anytime soon.

As I type this out and think it through, I'm starting to remember why I never went any further with it. I think it's better off as a non-shooting "wall hanger" family heirloom. I have plenty of other .22 rifles for my kids to shoot. I think they can appreciate great-grandma's old squirrel rifle without having to shoot it.

Chev. William
02-27-2016, 03:26 PM
Go on Ebay and Watch for Stevens Favorite Breech Blocks for Sale.
Buy one that is similar to the one in your rifle, then convert the "New" Breech block from RF to CF.
You would then be able to fit a New "Wisner's" 1894 series Extractor to your rifle with the "New CF breech block to properly chamber, fire, and Extract .25ACP cartridges. Thes eAre Within the Pressure and Performance range of the 1894 and later Stevens Favorite Actions.

Yes, they are FMJ-RN bullets instead of Lead if you use commercial ammo.
BUT: You CAN Reload them with 50 Grain Lead RN or RFN bullets and do it cheaply.

Powder demands are minimal, about 1.2 to 1.3 grains of Bullseye is good for the needed Velocity for Rabbits and Squirrels. Muzzle Velocity should be below 1100 fps so the Bullets remai8n subsonic for their full range, which will avoid the accuracy damaging 'Transonic' velocity range.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

fatelk
02-27-2016, 06:08 PM
Considering the condition of the bore on this particular rifle, I don't think it would be worth it.

Chev. William
02-27-2016, 10:58 PM
What IS the condition?
I have a couple of Stevens made .25 Stevens chambered barrels that came to me with Black, Cruded up bores that a .22 Bore Brush would not go through by hand.
After a LOT of work, they cleaned up to look Pitted And Ringed with Thin rifling But Shoot reasonably for Both Their and My Age. It seems Stevens cut his barrels toward the small end of Bore/Groove tolerance for .250" bullet use so they would give more accuracy with available Ammo of the time.
Before "Writing Off" the Rifle or Barrel shoot it after Cleaning.
Use a about 67 Grain Lead Bullet or a 50 Grain FMJ RN bullet to test the Accuracy of your Barrel and Stay Subsonic in your loads. The original .25-10-67 RF cartridges usually were listed as 1050 to 1120 fps (BP) or about 950 to 1000 fps (Smokeless) and considered good Target combinations out to about 150 to 200 Yards, shooting "Off Hand".

I am guessing your rifle has a History of Squirrels or Rabbits taken at about 50 to 75 yards, for Family "Pot Meat". which would mean about "Minute of Squirrel" in the hands of a Young Shooter of the Era.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

wch
02-28-2016, 06:32 AM
Where might I obtain a replacement breech block in center fire and some .32 long colt cases? I will have to do some research on heeled bullets. casting is not a problem..;)

Try CPA Rifles on the internet.

KCSO
02-28-2016, 12:11 PM
I can be either converted to center fire or it can be relined to 22 calibre, but the Favorite is NOT suitable for any more pressure than a 22 LR period. I have done several conversions to 32 S and Wesson but council against shooting modern longs. The favourite is NOT strong and the firing pin set up is poor for gas relief.

Hooker53
02-28-2016, 04:19 PM
Hello Pause. That's a nice looking Stevens. I would love to find me a 44 1/2 project action with a barrel. Don't even have to have the wood with it. You're gonna have a lot of fun with the round ball workaround. I did that with my 38 cal #2 rolling block and the 6mm Floberts till I found a center fire block and converted it. They can still be tack drivers. I'm also glad we have Chev on here. He knows his models on these old guns. I still have not got it good in my mind what model is what. Ha. Ha. Have fun.

Roy
Hooker53