"Ball-etts"

[fogg64]

I ran across these at a gun show yesterday. On the box was written 50 cal. "Ball-etts", unsized, unlubed with a date of 4-3-1985. The overall height is .513, ball dia. of .502 and the stem is .460. Anyone have any thoughts on these?
http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt24/fogg62/IMG_3374_zps5deb7998.jpghttp://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt24/fogg62/IMG_3372_zps6a2efa94.jpg

[ralphtaff]

might use them for sling shot.i have thought about finding 60 cal or bigger fot the leather and string type slig shot. i think nt sure 50cal would be to light.

[Wolfer]

Their made for slow twist muzzleloaders that can't shoot a conical. 66" twist etc. if you wanted to hunt big game this gave you a little more weight. I don't understand the smaller shank though.

[nhrifle]

Maybe some type of reproduction of an early black powder cartridge heeled bullet? I remember seeing someone loading Spencer cartidges by filling them with powder and pressing a ball into the casing by hand.

[1Shirt]

Believe they were produced by Hornady a few years back. Remember a friend of mine taking a muley doe with one probably 15-18 yrs ago. Obviously they didn't sell real well, and got the production axe!
1Shirt!

[44Vaquero]

The shank/Tail makes them easier to load in a muzzle loader. I actuall shoot something similar in my 1858 Remington blk powder pistol.

[milrifle]

No doubt about whether to load sprue up or sprue down, huh?

[Chicken Thief]

Makes me think paper cartridge

[longbow]

I am thinking more like cap and ball revolver but the shank is pretty small.

I used to have a 5 or 6 cavity mould that made a "ballette" similar but the shank was full ball diameter at 1/2 the ball diameter long so boolit length was ball diameter. It also had a narrow ring around the equator. My understanding was that it was for cap and ball revolver and that the ring was to align, shear off and ensure groove diameter seal in the barrel. I tried it in a rifle with poor success but never in a revolver. The shank/ball was a little undersize for my rifle barrel and not much of a driving band in that little ring.

Never seen one since so I am guessing they weren't popular or just plain didn't work.

Longbow

[I'll Make Mine]

Never seen one since so I am guessing they weren't popular or just plain didn't work.

Can't say if they didn't or didn't work -- I recall seeing them, but it was after I'd traded my black powder pistol (CVA .45 Plains style, single shot from a kit) and I wasn't reloading modern ammunition yet. They'd be easy to recreate, just by running a drill into a round ball mold; select the drill to be just a hair smaller than the ball size and drill carefully to avoid marking the cavity.

[Janoosh]

I'm thinking that they fit in a plastic Sabot. Kinda like a Hornady hardball. Or with a flared base like a powerbelt, seated like a heled boolit.

[KCSO]

The shank is to straight start them in a M/L without a tool. Just tap them down with your starter, usually a greased or wax wad underneath and swab between shots.

[longbow]

With shanks of 0.460" they would be too small in my .50 with 0.495" bore. They would most likely cock to one side. If that's the purpose then they should be just about right on bore diameter. Not saying that isn't the purpose just that it is a small shank for most .50 cals.

The mould I had was for .45 cal but was about right on bore diameter. I just never got them to shoot well.

Longbow

[fogg64]

They weigh 233 grains. They appear to be pure lead (thumb test). If the mold was modified to gain more weight than shank should closer to the ball diameter. If they were cast to be used as 'heeled' bullet the shank should still be a little larger to fit the brass (whatever caliber that would be). If they were to used with sabots, why the smaller shank.

[fogg64]

I am thinking more like cap and ball revolver but the shank is pretty small.

I used to have a 5 or 6 cavity mould that made a "ballette" similar but the shank was full ball diameter at 1/2 the ball diameter long so boolit length was ball diameter. It also had a narrow ring around the equator. My understanding was that it was for cap and ball revolver and that the ring was to align, shear off and ensure groove diameter seal in the barrel. I tried it in a rifle with poor success but never in a revolver. The shank/ball was a little undersize for my rifle barrel and not much of a driving band in that little ring.

Never seen one since so I am guessing they weren't popular or just plain didn't work.

Longbow
What size were you "ballettes"? When you used them in your rifle, were they lubed or patched?

[fogg64]

Thanks for all the feedback. I believe I'll recast them into something I can actually use,

[turbo1889]

I've used Balletts to good effect before. Mine were for a 58 caliber muzzle loader with a slow ball twist. 0.576" shank diameter and 0.587" ball diameter with a good size flat tip on the nose of the ball. A big bag of them came with the gun when I bought it (pawn shop find) but unfortionatly no mold to make more of them. They fit the gun nearly perfectly since it had a minor bore diameter of 0.575" and a major groove diameter of 0.588" so the shank was just a perfect thumb press fit in the muzzle and then a couple taps with a wood mallet (which doubled as a T-handle for the ram-rod) to engrave the ball in the rifling and then ram it down the bore with the ram-rod. Used on top of a heavy charge of FG and then a 1/2" thick felt fiber wad impregnated with crisco/beeswax mix lube they worked great and shot better then patched ball with better knock down.

I think the problem with the ones that OP has is that the shank diameter is too small. It should be right at the minor bore diameter preferably a thou. of an inch fat or so and the ball diameter should be right at the major groove diameter to engrave in the rifling and if anything just a thou. of an inch or two small to make loading easier when the barrel has some fowling in it. In addition a completely round nose is pointless since your going to get a flat from the ram-rod just from seating the ball anyway and a reasonably sized flat on the nose tip improves both accuracy and knock down anyway compared to a true round nose. Looks to me like someone did a bad job of modifying a regular ball mold.

[turbo1889]

Based on my experience if you want a ballett mold that will work as intended for a muzzle loader with a slow twist rifling that is loaded naked without a patch and engraves in the rifling this is how to make the mold:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8075/8302683034_7aedf120cd_b.jpg

Where:

G = The major groove diameter of your gun. Tolerances should be on the negative side for ease of loading with a fowled bore.
B = The minor bore diameter of your gun. Tolerances should be either on the plus side or split equally. You want the heal to be a snug press fit in the muzzle but you don't want it so tight you can't press it into the muzzle with just thumb pressure.

Use a snug fitting thick felt/fiber wad impregnated with lube between the top of the powder and the ballett to provide the lube and keep fowling soft and cast the ballets out of dead soft pure lead and they work great if properly dimensioned to fit the gun.