Swaging cast bullets for accuracy?

[Tatume]

I have read a couple of reports about swaging cast bullets to make them more uniform in density, with resultant improvement in accuracy. There has also been speculation on enhanced uniformity of the base. Has anybody here done extensive testing and either demonstrated or invalidated the hypothesis?

[shooter93]

Bump dies are quite popular with the benchrest crowd both to "uniform" things and to perfectly square the base. Nothing wrong with doing it but as with most things done for maximum accuracy it generally takes a very good rifle to see a difference.

[HARRYMPOPE]

Swaging or bumping can make a bullet that doesn't fit at all actually fit and make a big accuracy difference.But if a bullet already fits the difference is noticeable only in very accurate rifles as shooter93 says above.I have a swage/bump die for my 30BR that matches my throat angle and it does make them shoot a bit better.I cant prove how much but the groups are rounder with less "leakers"

George

[runfiverun]

a true swage will soften your alloy.
chemical pipe is swaged 5% antimonial content lead so are hornady's hollow base boolits.
i will reform swage my gas checked and lubed 223 boolits i will then re-harden [quench] them in the oven
before putting them through the sizer luber for the second and final time.
i weght sort them before the swage since i don't have a bleed off hole in the point form die..
yep a lot of effort. but it gets me from the 5's to the 3's

[HARRYMPOPE]

I'd invite you to a CBA match I run over here in Washington state with a 22 shooting in the 3's.

George

[PbHurler]

In one of Handloaders' special, Cast Bullet Issues; John Zemanek did an article on him running SWC bullets up into a swaging die & hollowpointing them. The results were improved accuracy. If I recall correctly, he attributed it to the "trueing-up" of the bases of the bullets.

I'll look up the issue / date of the article this evening; & edit this post.

[madsenshooter]

Could have also been from changing the point balance of the bullet. I've got some 6mm bullets to test, HP vs solid, that ought to be interesting.

[youngda9]

What is this 5's vs 3's mean...is that group sizes, scoring, what? Sorry, don't shoot competitively except for the occasional rimfire sporter match.

[Tatume]

What is this 5's vs 3's mean...is that group sizes, scoring, what? Sorry, don't shoot competitively except for the occasional rimfire sporter match.

It refers to the group size in tenths of an inch. For example a group of 0.350" would be "in the threes."

[williamwaco]

Thompson Contender .357 Magnum.

With some bullets, swaging significantly reduces group size. With others not so much.

Best results come from converting 158gr gas check SWC to 158 gr RFP hollow points.

Least improvement comes from swaging 148gr wad cutters.

I size normally with a Lyman 4500 to fill the lube grooves BEFORE swaging.

[PbHurler]

In one of Handloaders' special, Cast Bullet Issues; John Zemanek did an article on him running SWC bullets up into a swaging die & hollowpointing them. The results were improved accuracy. If I recall correctly, he attributed it to the "trueing-up" of the bases of the bullets.

I'll look up the issue / date of the article this evening; & edit this post.

The article is from Handloader's Cast Bullet Special Edition 1992, page 28
John's article is titled: Key Factors for Cast Handgun Bullet Accuracy

John is explaining (from his point of view) six principal factors that influence cast bullet accuracy in hand guns:

“The bullets’ base is the second most important factor. The base steers the bullet, and if the base is not virtually perfect, or there are obvious variations in the base of the bullets that have been cast, then accuracy will suffer. I proved the truthfulness of this theory a few years ago when I began swaging cast handgun bullets. Swaging trued up the bases and accuracy dramatically improved. If the bullets have a gas check, then you can be absolutely certain that the base of every bullet is virtually identical and free of any variations that will influence accuracy.

The nose of most cast handgun bullets are of the soft point variety. When I began swaging cast bullets, I discovered that if I swaged a hollowpoint into the nose that the accuracy usually improved far beyond my wildest expectations. Therefore, whenever possible, a hollowpoint should be applied. As a general rule, SWC bullets seem to benefit the most buy having a hollowpoint applied. Round nose bullets and particularly wadcutters, usually won’t respond too well to hollowpointing.”

For the newby's out there; this edition of the Cast Bullet special editions from Handloader magazine, is available on a CD from Wolfe Publishing. Bullet Making Annuals Volumes 1, 2, Cast Bullet Special Edition and The Art of Bullet Casting are all on the CD and IMO, well worth the reading. There's alot of good information here. (Us subscriber back then received these issues in print, as part of our subscriptions.)

Here's a link:
http://www.riflemagazine.com//catalog/detail.cfm?ProductID=806

[Cadillo]

For those of us who are unfamiliar with the "Swaging" of cast bullets, what type of equipment is used, and who markets it? I knew that some companies, I believe that it is Corbin who comes to mind, market presses and dies for the swaging of lead cores into bullets, but swaging cast bullets? Press, dies, other?

Take us to school!

[Wayne Smith]

I don't know about anyone else but I'm using an old Herter's copy of the CH swage press and some CH dies. These are all half-jacket type of swage deals, not the full jacket that Corbin or even Brian are selling. I don't know that you can't do it with those, and I'm just beginning to play with the idea of swaging, so I am not your most reliable answer.

[HARRYMPOPE]

A buddy swages the Lyman 452473 RN into a FN animal in a C-H set l and it SHOOOTS in his Ruger BH 45 ACP.I borrowed a few and in a Ruger p-90 i had it would shoot sub 2" at 25 yards(even with me behind the trigger)

[.22-10-45]

I am using an old 0 frame CH press. Corbin reloading press dies..both .225 & .226 dia. I originally bought dies to bring the "old style"..Lyman 225415 (49gr S.C.) bullet up to size & correct out of roundness. As afterthought, sent bullet samples of several .22 moulds for nose-punches. The Ruger No.1 .222Rem. likes the Saeco #221 re-formed with longer nose. The Borchardt Hornet likes the Eagan MX22 re-formed with a later style Lyman 225415 nose punch. Both are nose-first sized to .225dia., then swaged up to .226".

[HARRYMPOPE]

Is your Eagan an MX3(tapered) or MX2(two diameter) ?

[runfiverun]

i use the C&H to reform 8mm boolits into 3575 diameter boolits for my 358 win and to make half jaxkets from.
i use a regular 223 swage die set for the 223.
it's actually a 227 diameter die so it reforms the nose diameter to bump fit the throat
and square everything up, i use it on a regular reloading press with a long stem punch.
i also reform 375449's into rnfp hollow points and add gas checks or half jaxkets for my 44 mags.
these are done in a modified corbin die.

[williamwaco]

For those of us who are unfamiliar with the "Swaging" of cast bullets, what type of equipment is used, and who markets it? I knew that some companies, I believe that it is Corbin who comes to mind, market presses and dies for the swaging of lead cores into bullets, but swaging cast bullets? Press, dies, other?

Take us to school!

Cadillo

I use BTSniper's dies. He is a member here and sells excellent dies.

see:


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?172357-BTSniper-10-off-end-of-year-sale!&highlight=btsniper

[.22-10-45]

Hello, HARRYMPOPE. It's the MX2. I do have the tapered MX3 but haven't tried that one yet.

[SlowSmokeN]

For those of us who are unfamiliar with the "Swaging" of cast bullets, what type of equipment is used, and who markets it? I knew that some companies, I believe that it is Corbin who comes to mind, market presses and dies for the swaging of lead cores into bullets, but swaging cast bullets? Press, dies, other?

Take us to school!

Corbin in White City has all of the above.