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Linstrum
07-24-2005, 07:44 AM
Next Saturday, on July 30, I will pick up my Yugo 24/47 8x57JS Mauser from my local Big 5. According to Allan’s Armory, the 24/47 is an honest-to-goodness high quality re-arsenaled large ring K98 variant. When I checked it out before plunking my money down, it looked like it had very little or no use after it was re-arsenaled. After pushing the greasy preservative out of the barrel with a few paper towel wads, the bore was shiny with sharp lands, and the bluing that I could see was 100% with no rust. But like all the other 24/47s I have seen, the wood is not pretty. It doesn’t have any cracks or rack dings, but it is a wire brushed-rough unfinished tan olive green color and the hand guard is quite a bit darker than the stock.

This is the first 8x57 I will have reloaded for. I have a Lee .324” 175-grain mould, full-length 8x57 dies, Lee collet crimp die, and 40 converted.30-06 cases for starter brass. I also have 200 rounds of non-corrosive Boxer-primed Austrian 198-grain Hirtenburger ammo that will also become reloadable soon. I have the Lyman 46th manual, which lists several shot shell/pistol powder loads for the 8x57. I also have the Accurate Arms manual, which lists several slow rifle powder loads including a compressed 54.5-grain case full of AA8700 for the 170-grain boolit load. AA8700 translates to WC870, which is what it actually is, and in this size cartridge WC860 and WC872 are sufficiently close to WC870 to use in place of it. I see over at Castpics that there are two loads listed using 56-grains WC860 with 1 and 2 grains H4198 for a booster that produce velocities right around 2000 fps. I have used similar boosted loads in .30-06, 7.62x54R, .308 Win, and 7.5 French for a few years as well. Since I don’t have the rifle yet, there is no point in loading up much of anything beyond maybe five test rounds each using 56-grains of WC860 with 2-grains of H4198, 19-grains of 2400, 13-grains Red Dot, and some 0.325” round ball loads with 4-grains of Green Dot or Unique. For other cartridges in this class I have made literally a hundred different load combinations that work pretty well and I don’t think I’ll have any problems working up any 8x57JS loads, but if anyone has some pet loads, I’m interested!

Also, according to Allan’s Armory, the big difference between the 24/47 K98 and the German K98k is that the bolt stroke is shorter and unable to accept.30-06 length cartridges. If they say so, I guess it is so, but according to my reloading books the difference in over-all- length between a loaded.30-06 cartridge and a loaded 8x57 cartridge is only 0.090”. That is less than the thickness of two dimes! It is about this distance here >< between these two points.

Every once in awhile there is some drama to keep my adrenaline stirred up and flowing. I almost didn’t get that rifle. The Big 5 kid “salesman” had handed me and then stood there watching me clean and examine several rifles from the display rack, and after I said that I had found one to my liking, he told me he would get one out of storage in the back for me to actually purchase. I asked why since the one I inspected and wanted was here. He said that it was store policy. I said that I had not just spent forty-five minutes getting all greasy and dirty cleaning rifles because I thought it was fun and that he shouldn’t have waited until I was done to tell me about the policy about customers not being allowed to purchase the particular rifle they wanted! I told him that I was not buying some socks, that used rifles vary in condition and the whole point of my cleaning and carefully examining each one was to get one I wanted! He totally ignored what I had just told him and said that I would have to accept the one he was going to get from the back, or I could go buy a gun somewhere else. I told him that I was glad that the store was doing such good business that they could afford to p!$$ me off and permanently lose me and my family as customers. The manager was sitting in the office out of sight but listening to this and he came out and told me I could have whatever I wanted. In front of the kid he explained to me that when they bring a gun out to replace one sold off the rack that they have to clean up the replacement and the kid was too lazy to do that and earn his paycheck. The manager took the paperwork from the kid to make sure that it was done right, which it wasn't. It was totally messed up and would have delayed picking up my purchase an additional eleven days if it had not been found. The manager gave me the Kalifornia mandatory trigger lock for free. A few days ago I drove by and the "HELP WANTED" sign was out front.

Maven
07-24-2005, 09:05 AM
Linstrum, I'm not sure the difference in OAL between the 8 x57mm & 7.62 x 63mm is .09" since the latter case is ~.24" longer than the former. Moreover, the longest OAL I use for the '06 is ~3.4" (RG-4 and .30cal. HBC) while the longest I can manage in my 8 x 57mm is 3.15" (Buckshot CB) or 3.09" for 150gr. jacketed spire points (Hornady, Sierra, Speer). Btw, the reformed '06 brass works very well, but may develop split necks after ~5-7 firings. Hope this helps!

9.3X62AL
07-24-2005, 02:16 PM
Linstrum--

My local Big 5 seems to be all right--although I haven't bought a gun from them--mostly licenses, shoes, and fishing tackle from that source.

In my brief sojourn as a management trainee for a chain of gun/tackle stores in my area, I became aware of how scarce that knowledgable people were in the firearms retail business. The folks that stayed around for a while gained knowledge as they went along--but someone who came to work pre-equipped with a little information was a rare thing indeed. Add in the laziness encountered by Linstrum, and I was largely tearing my hair out a good part of the time. Training, as always, is the solution to the knowledge problem. Discharge resolves laziness issues fairly well.

My G98/40 likes the Lee 175 pretty well, and although I haven't run many of the Buckshot Heavies through it--those do about as well. I haven't reformed any cases for this caliber, having found some W-W brass that started life as 8 x 57's several years ago while still putzing around with a Mannlicher 1908 in 8 x 56 M/S. At the end of that sojourn, I had 200 new 8 x 57's laying around--so when the G98/40 showed up in the gun safe, I was one die set away from making rifle chow.

I think the 8 x 57 is one hell of fine caliber for informal target and hunting usage. I have wondered how well a dedicated target rifle chambered closely in this caliber would fare with match-grade J-words or well-cast real boolits.

45 2.1
07-24-2005, 02:37 PM
I think the 8 x 57 is one hell of fine caliber for informal target and hunting usage. I have wondered how well a dedicated target rifle chambered closely in this caliber would fare with match-grade J-words or well-cast real boolits.

They fair very well, very easy to get to shoot. Several available cast molds do well. Perhaps the best is the Saeco 190 gr.

9.3X62AL
07-24-2005, 02:55 PM
Right after I got the G98/40, I assembled some rounds with Hornady 150's to attempt duplication of the service load used in the rifle. I added enough WW-748 to elicit 2750-2800 FPS, and the rifle shot VERY well--as well as I could do at 100 yards (1.25") with open irons, and right to the sights. The rifle isn't torn up, but has seen service--so the results were satisfying.

I'm not real surprised to hear that the caliber is tractable and accurate--even in my "sorta rough" milsurp M/S, it would do to ride the river with or walk the forest with, for sure.

NVcurmudgeon
07-24-2005, 06:33 PM
Linstrum, I am glad that your Mauser buying adventure ended well. All too many retail store employees have a "public be damned" attitude. That Lee mould was a winner in three Mausers that I shot it in. A well worn 1933 Obendorf K98k, a real good bore Czech VZ24, and a brand new Yugo 1948 all shot Lee's 175 to the capabilities of iron sights. I am also glad to see that you list 19.0 gr. 2400 as one of your test loads. That's another good thing.

brimic
07-25-2005, 03:07 AM
Also, according to Allan’s Armory, the big difference between the 24/47 K98 and the German K98k is that the bolt stroke is shorter and unable to accept.30-06 length cartridges. If they say so, I guess it is so, but according to my reloading books the difference in over-all- length between a loaded.30-06 cartridge and a loaded 8x57 cartridge is only 0.090”. That is less than the thickness of two dimes! It is about this distance here >< between these two points.

The 24/47 is a copy of the FN model 24 which is a Mauser 98 with an intermediate length action. It should be approximately 1/4" shorter than a standard Mod 98 action. It won't accommodate a 30-06 length cartridge, but there is still plenty of room for a 8x57. I don't know about the OAL posted in the manuals, but a 30-06 case is quite a bit longer than an 8x57, coincidentally, almost exactly 1/4" longer ;-)

Buckshot
07-25-2005, 06:23 AM
...........I've had pretty good luck at Big5 to date. They really went to bat for me in trying to locate a K31, which I ended up buying. Besides, the Redlands store has a really cute blonds assistant manager and the last time I was in she was wearing these gray flannel slacks and........ well the Lee 175gr does really well for me too!

I have the Lyman 323470, 323471, the Lee 323-175R and then my Lee C325-240RF. My Turked M88 is a superb shooter and I'd loaded up some of the big heavy Lyman -471's for a trip over to Arizona a few years ago. I stopped by the Tucson range to shoot with Jethrow Strait and his bunch on the way to my folk's in Sierra Vista.

I'd only had 40 of the big Lymans so loaded 10 of the smaller Lee's over the same charge. I think probably 23.0 H4198. I'd been talking about the Burrito Invitational so we had Burrito shoot there. It was me, Jethrow, PaulB and Ith. I disgraced myself pretty badly in the shoot. PaulB was shooting a 308 in a M70 Win I think it was. He said he'd not done much shooting standing up and with only iron sights, as he fired off a 10.

It continued pretty much like that. Gee, this is hard, (bang) a 9, you mean you guys do this all the time (bang) another 10 and so on. The sandbagger! I don't recall his score, but it beat the pants off me! I sat down at the bench later on and fired a group that wasn't real shiney for 50 yards. I'd about run out of ammo and it was getting toward time to leave so I decided to fire 5 of those Lee 175gr slugs off. I'm danged if they didn't produce a group you could cover with a quarter.

My heavy boolit has proven real accurate and one of the best loads is a casefull of surplus TCCI 5020 ball for 1950 fps from the M88. The only thing is 240grs of lead is a bunch just to punch round holes in paper. For that I've pretty much settled on the Lee and 16.0 2400 or 10grs of Unique. The Lee is just so darned SLOOOOOOW as a one cavity.

...........Buckshot

Dutch4122
07-25-2005, 08:23 AM
Buckshot-

Not sure if you've seen it yet; but I've got a Group Buy thread going on the Lee C324-175-1R for a 6 banger. Interest has been pretty good so far.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=1676

Planning on sending the order in at maybe the end of September.

You interested? ;)

swheeler
07-25-2005, 11:45 AM
Linstrum; The 175 gr Lee shoots well with many powders, 19 grs of sr4759 @ -1700 gives me under 1.5" at 100 yards scoped. The 8mm maximum, sold by Mid-South, seems a little fussier as to powders and charges. 50-55 grs of Wc872 does good, Wc860 will not shoot under 3 in for me, 36.0 grs 7383 plus poly wad does 1.5" , and I settled on (for now)35.0 gr WC846 plus poly wad at 1882 fps for an accurate hunting load 1.5 in at 100 yds.
Scooter

Depreacher
07-26-2005, 05:20 PM
I load the lee 175 (actual 170.4, with a 3 to 1 mix WW & lino) ahead of 21 gr. 4759, but is it ever position sensitive!!!! Powder seated at back of case shoots approx. 7 1/4 inches lower at 100yds. than powder positioned normally. Tried this on 3 separate targets just to be sure it wasn't a fluke. I tilt up rifle each shot for best accuracy. Will then shoot 1 1/2 to 2 inch groups from my scoped K98 sporter. Accuracy seems to be worse the older I get (62). It can't be me, so I am blaming the coriolis force which has always played havoc with this rifle. Also, lets not forget that mars is closer than its ever been in the last 5000 years so this is a magnetic force to be reckoned with. I noticed it quite a bit while casting early this morning.